The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Epaulet]



great choice mike, i almost covered my screen with ****!:foo:

Haha, I had a literal LOL from that. Thanks for the good words everyone.

Thought I'd contribute to the Portuguese thread. To be honest more accurate than my BP. Prettier too. Go figure.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

This is fantastic. I wish that I had a bigger wrist to pull this model off.

 

[kungapa]

About big wrists - Lange's new 50mm X 20 mm watch!

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/introducing-the-a-lange-shne-grand-complication

 

[TheFoo]



More embellishment does imply a more labor intensive construction.

This is simply false. I can do more embellishment faster if I take less care in the execution. In contrast, if I take more care in the execution, it might take me more time to do less embellishment. I don't understand why this principle is proving so evasive in this discussion.

I think this depends on the particular Patek and the particular new Lange. Pateks as you are well aware have different levels of finishing, and Lange finishing while qualitatively different (“louder”) than Patek are quantitatively superior to other examples of “loud” finishing, such as say Dornblueth or GO; within the alligator suit spectrum there are still better and worse made alligator suits.

Again, there is a failure of distinction underlying this commentary. Yes, Patek adds varying amounts of embellishment to its movements, depending on the complications and price point. However, the quality of the embellishment is about the same across their entire line. The perlage on a basic Calatrava will be just as neat and fine as on a tourbillion minute repeater.

Lange finishing is not just "louder" than Patek's, but includes more embellishment: including the blued screwed, screwed chatons, etc. My point is that those added features don't make the Lange better finished--just finished differently. It's similar to comparing a pair of heavily brogued alligator Lobbs to ones made from plain calfskin without broguing. The former is not better finished than the latter. It just louder and more embellished.

I suspect you are against “louder” finishes in general - which would be in line with your other preferences - so even if a Lange were to finished “as well” as a Patek it would still fall short in your estimation. That said, while I don’t subscribe to that POV, I don’t see anything wrong with that point of view as well.

No, I'm not against "louder" finishes in general. I don't like the design philosophy underlying Lange's specific approach. It is a blatant attempt to establish heritage by incorporating feature not specific to Lange, but common to fine movements in the past and which have disappeared because they no longer function. It would be like featuring headlights that look like gas lamps to resurrect a defunct car marque. I think that's pretty tasteless.

 

[TheFoo]



You would be a more useful contributor if you had the ability to recognize intentional overstatement and to distinguish fact from opinion. Returning to Appreciation, have a peek at this IWC. Elegance on the wrist. Chances of being confused with a hockey puck = zero. Badass mall ninja factor = zero.

I actually really dislike the small Portuguese. The original Portuguese was not a regular production watch. It was the result of a special request for a wrist watch large enough to accommodate a pocket watch movement for greater accuracy. The customer was supposedly Portuguese. Hence, it was always made with random dials in black and white, using different numerals and markers. The dials were generic in style--whatever was popular at the time a particular Portuguese was requested. Hence, the only feature that distinguishes the Portuguese as a Portuguese is the large 42mm diameter case, with a bezel and profile as slim as possible to cut down on size. By shrinking the Portuguese, such as in the case of the 3531, that essential quality is lost, and all you have is a reproduction of a random 1930's watch that could have been made by anybody. The dial, with its Arabic numerals and dot markers, can be found on any number of watches from that period--both by IWC and other manufacturers.

 

[rnguy001]

^^ This might be the first time I've heard of someone NOT liking this model..

 

[TheFoo]



^^ This might be the first time I've heard of someone NOT liking this model..

Maybe on here. It is quite disliked by watch guys, and maybe most of all by IWC collectors. Keep in mind, SF'ers spend a lot more time learning about clothes than watches.

 

[RogerP]

^^ This might be the first time I've heard of someone NOT liking this model..

Yep - and I generally don't rley on SF for my watchtalk (though I think this thread is terrific). Disliked by watch guys? Don't think so. There was a lineup to buy it when I sold it - which certainly has not been the case with every watch I have sold over the years. Particularly disliked by IWC guys? Well it was very well received on the IWC forums that I posted it on when I picked it up.

 

[apropos]



Again, there is a failure of distinction underlying this commentary. Yes, Patek adds varying amounts of embellishment to its movements, depending on the complications and price point. However, the quality of the embellishment is about ]the same across their entire line. The perlage on a basic Calatrava will be just as neat and fine as on a tourbillion minute repeater.

Actually, not really!

This suggestion always gets pooh poohed on the internetz, but I say this because I've noticed it while examining many PP watches differences in the quality of finishing (particularly the anglage) from base models to the more fancy ones! I started examining them in ADs after I noticed the occasional post in the PP forums about this phenomenon. It's easy to make a comparison because so many models use the same base calibre; in the more "entry level" pateks, the anglage can be "rougher" (for lack of a better term), and there was one where I even saw vertical wavy marks.

That said, my sample size for "nicer" models is small (~10) so maybe I just haven't examined enough perpetual calendars.

Lange finishing is not just "louder" than Patek's, but includes more embellishment: including the blued screwed, screwed chatons, etc. My point is that those added features don't make the Lange better finished--just finished differently. It's similar to comparing a pair of heavily brogued alligator Lobbs to ones made from plain calfskin without broguing. The former is not better finished than the latter. It just louder and more embellished.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying, but c'est la vie.

 

[AriGold]

"your watch is disliked!"

:foo:
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[TheFoo]

Interesting observation, apropos. However, I always thought that the finishing on base Pateks tended to be near immaculate, even if less elaborate. Anyway, at least you understand the distinction I'm making. Blued screws and gold chatons don't make a Lange better finished than an IWC.

On the 3531: there is a cult following for the watch, but it is generally unloved, particularly as compared to "real" Portgueses. It was only produced for five years (1995-1999/2000), so there are relatively few on the market. Look at pricing on the secondary market. Retail prices when new were ~$5,000 for the steel version. You can pick one up now for $3,000. In contrast, the regular production 5001 Portuguese retailed for around $10,000 when it debuted in 2004/2005, is still in production, and sells used for $9,000 and up. The 1993 Portuguese Jubilee, on which the 3531 was based, tells an even starker story. Its retail price was $8,500 in steel, and now sells for more than double that (~$17,000).

 

[RogerP]

"your watch is disliked!"

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. / \

Say it aint so! How will I ever survive the disaFooval?

Well, I guess it's a good thing I don't own it anymore - I'd just have to chuck it in the trash.

A 40% difference between retail and used is hardly shocking within the context of the secondary market. Heck, a great many models are available brand new with a 30% discount. I suspect that kind of drop is not at all unusual even within the context of the IWC lineup itself - the Aquatimer and Portuguese Chrono spring to mind. I doubt that it signifies that such watches are uniquely unloved.

 

[TheFoo]

The discount is actually quite remarkable given that other Portugueses, including the currently made 5001, fare so much better.

 

[AriGold]

Roger- how much did you end up getting rid of it for?

 

[rnguy001]

Roger - Whoah, Whoah Whoah - you SOLD IT?!

j/k - I'm glad you were able to enjoy it. Seriously I've never heard of anyone having anything but glowing praise for that particular watch, but at the same time it's hard to doubt the FOO.

R

PS - I got my 7 day BNIB from and AD for nearly 30% off. But that was when the US was in an economic slump, and dealers couldn't give them away.. Just lucky I guess..

Say it aint so!  How will I ever survive the disaFooval?

Well, I guess it's a good thing I don't own it anymore - I'd just have to chuck it in the trash.

A 40% difference between retail and used is hardly shocking within the context of the secondary market.  Heck, a great many models are available brand new with a 30% discount.  I suspect that kind of drop is not at all unusual even within the context of the IWC lineup itself - the Aquatimer and Portuguese Chrono spring to mind.  I doubt that it signifies that such watches are uniquely unloved.

 

[TheFoo]

I got my 5001 for nearly 30% off retail as well. However, the used prices have climbed with the retail prices. So, the margin is small and I could sell mine used for more than the price I paid new. The same cannot be said of the 3531. Prices speak truth more than internet chatter.