The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Benjamin Chee HH]



I think the traditional material for dials is brass, not silver. As you're probably well aware enameled dials are traditionally either gold or copper.

Silvered dials are not traditionally plated, but rather painted with silver nitrate, which is a very different process.

While I agree with the point re: batons & hands, I'm not sure I see the inherent superiority of a silver dial over a brass dial except in perceived value for money.

In most cases I would argue that manufacturers should pay attention first to other dial things like riveted v glued batons, vitreous vs cold enamel dials, and general finish of the dial as opposed to the underlying dial material, etc as opposed to dial material.

For some reason you've just reminded me of another one of my pet dislikes - power reserves on automatics... Oh, and another one - painted blue hands on many JLC Master models.

Yes and no, the traditional material for high-grade watches in the vintage era prior to the 70s was solid silver, for less expensive watches it was brass. I notice that now most watches from the big 3 use brass dials and call them "silvered". You are right that enamelled dials are done on gold, but I've never heard of copper.

Parmigiani used to use only gold dials exclusively, but I've noticed that even they have dropped this of late.

My mistake, I meant painted and not plated. Cognitive error!

Well there is no inherent superiority of silver over brass dials, nor solid gold hands/batons over plated, but when you pay 5 digits these are little luxuries you should receive. Otherwise the brands are fleecing you by using the same materials as in low-end brands.

Riveted batons can be found in some inexpensive brands, even around the under-500 dollar mark. I would be grossly disappointed to see glued batons on any watch with a 4 or 5 digit price tag, but I wouldnt be surprised with all the cost cutting going on and the equivalent rise in production volume. Witness JLC's dip in quality control over the last 5 years.

I had no idea the JLC Masters use painted hands. That is truly inexcusable, considering you can get heat blued hands on a Stowa going for 10% the JLC

 

[in stitches]



Thanks! The signature monogram is not nearly as obnoxious in person as it appears in the pic, BTW. I just noticed it an thought OMG that looks obnoxious in that shot!

i like the monogram.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



can you answer your pms please?

Hi sorry for the delay. I am waiting for some incoming information in order to answer your questions fully.

Will reply to your PM tomorrow HK time.

 

[Newcomer]



...

I think only the MUT RDM has painted hands, among a couple others. The MUT Moon, Master Control, both have heat blued center hands. And I don't know so much about JLC's dip in QC? From every JLC I have seen, they have had darn near perfect quality control. But I guess I have seen a fairly small sample size!

For the RDM, Jerome Lambert in a interview with TPP said that it was because on some models they prefer to have a color of blue that cannot be reproduced by blueing. A lighter blue. I am going to be honest... I kind of buy it. Call it naivete, but I see the merits of using lighter blue. And although JLC is a business, I really think that the price of blueing hands is probably negligible for such a manufacture. I just don't buy the whole cost-saving argument. An individual watch-maker? Yes, that would be a cost-saving measure. But a completely vertically integrated manufacture that creates an innumerable amount of blued hands, screws, etc. per day? Probably not.

Here is the relevant quote:

Question: Some have complained about the fact that, on some of your new models, the hands are painted blue instead of being heated blue. Why such a solution which is seen as a downgrade?

Answer: We use any solution that copes with watch requirements which means that there has to be some tradeoffs. For hands, some treatments or color preferences cannot be accomplished by heating the hands, so it must be done another way. Or we want to have some other hands to be luminescent, so again you have many other solutions. For example if you take a look at the moon, most of the industry is now using a flat moon. Jaeger-LeCoultre is one of the rare brands to still have shaped moons. All the other brands’ moons are flat and even one brand name which I will not quote, but they are considered one of the most relevant ones in the market in terms of fine watchmaking. At Jaeger-LeCoultre we still make the effort - I can tell you it can cost a fortune and much time to be able to do this. It even goes through to decoration. In the movement 899, you will see the quality of the decoration of the movement.

And here is some more information regarding it:

http://jlc.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-2/pi-5144643/ti-772543/s-0/
http://jlc.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-2/pi-5145738/ti-772543/s--21/

 

[in stitches]

^^ sounds totally legit to me. i knew they had to have a reason. i read an article about bluing steel in, WT i think, a while back. it is neither simple nor inexpensive. JLC, iirc, is one of the few companies that blues their own hands and screws. glad to see the given reason for the dipping.

 

[rnguy001]

Egad - heated blue hands AND lume!

 

[in stitches]

lol, again, the lume is white, so its much less bothersome to me. and blue hands are awesome, i think everyone agrees to that. it was just a question of blueing them with heat (the generally preferred option of quality finishers) or paint.

 

[jasonmx3]

Wearing my ever-reliable GMT watch today (the most accurate of all my watches).

 

[Allez Allez]

This watch is definitely on my want list, although i cant decide between the new ceramic model or the older 16710 model.

Do you travel much? I'm curious if people actually use the dual time zone feature.

 

[jasonmx3]

I do (for my work), and it's very convenient to be able to adjust the time on your watch without having to move the minute/second hand.

Also, a quick look at the third (GMT) hour hand is a lot faster than having to count forwards or backwards when trying to figure out what time it is back home. It's a lot more accurate too!

I would suggest getting the ceramic. These things are built to last!

 

[apropos]

I know I just laid out last night that I don't like power reserves on automatics, and I still don't... but with a face like this I can't help myself.

The JLC RdM is IMHO one of the few asymmetric dials that actually work. The right mix of quirky and good proportions, like the Lange 1. I like quirky.

Keep flip flopping between these two... Which one do you guys think comes out on top? The 37mm Master, or the 39mm Master Ultra Thin?

Both look good on my wrist. Not really concerned about the price difference.

Cheers!

 

[davidel]

I love GMT Rolex.

 

[Flake]



I know I just laid out last night that I don't like power reserves on automatics, and I still don't... but with a face like this I can't help myself.

The JLC RdM is IMHO one of the few asymmetric dials that actually work. The right mix of quirky and good proportions, like the Lange 1. I like quirky.

Keep flip flopping between these two... Which one do you guys think comes out on top? The 37mm Master, or the 39mm Master Ultra Thin?

Both look good on my wrist. Not really concerned about the price difference.

Cheers!

Tough. Better symmetry to my eye in the hour markings on the MUT. But, the subdial proportions seem more harmonious on the 37mm to me.

 

[rnguy001]

I like the 39 mm size better, but for some reason I prefer the dial layout/spacing on the 37 mm model. Both great choices though, no wrong answer here.

 

[DLJr]

I like the 39 mm size better, but for some reason I prefer the dial layout/spacing on the 37 mm model. Both great choices though, no wrong answer here.

And I'm the exact opposite haha. I prefer the 37mm size, but prefer the layout and spacing on the MUT.

May I suggest eeny, meeny, miny, moe...