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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1655

post #24811 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

I also think there's different degrees of brand whore-ism. Like Dino alluded, there are those that will buy from Brand X because it's Brand X and everyone will know it's from Brand X. Then there are those that choose to spend their money on quality items, and yes they come from Brand X, but they buy them because they have good experience with that brand, believe in the quality/craftsmanship and style and thus decide to patronize that brand. Oh and they also get a great quality item (clothing, watch, car). Being from a prestigious brand is a plus in this case. I think we agree we mostly fall into the latter, no?

Frills - Love the point/point analysis. I would be curious to see what the actual numbers are, and more importantly what GS main marketing strategy is. I doubt it's to sell a huge volume in every available market where Mimo is vacationing

Rich

 

I certainly fall into the latter category.  The whole "brand appeal" thing is endogenous anyway.  Brand affects pricing, but the sum total of experiences with a manufacturer's offering - past history, resale value, mystique, pricing patterns, aesthetics, quality, feedback from users and repeat customers, innovation - affects how the brand will do in the future and how much it can charge without pricing itself out of the market.  In the absence of perfect information about a specific product, imperfect buyers like us humans will tend to rely on things like brands and prices to convey quality, reliability, and overall desirability.  Just like how the pedigree of one's school affects your chances in the job market, at least before you rack up a good reputation in the actual workplace.

 

And even a "good reputation" is, in a very real sense, just another way of saying "good brand' - negative perceptions about "brand" and "marketing" aside.

post #24812 of 34026
Continuing on from Mimo's post...

Actually there are many high-end brands that are good value, and to an extent they do market themselves this way in a covert or less covert manner. Vacheron tends to be better value than equivalent Pateks. Newer high-end brands like Parmigiani and Moser have even better case and movement finishing than Vacheron, and yet have lower prices.

Also I would definitely not consider my watch for a "poor man", but rather a "discerning man". So the Morgan analogy is quite apt. If you think of Patek and Vacheron as Kiton and Brioni, then my brand would likely be a bespoke tailor, one with less BS like some we know on Savile Row, and with more substance and better serivce and workmanship.

I get your kit car analogy. I think a watch equivalent to a kit car is like Kemmner or one of the several home casers. Nothing wrong with those, at the right price. But my watches are made in a professional, established factory, with 55 years of watchmaking history and positioned as the finest of the Chinese makers. So you could call it a Bugatti even. Don't forget I have the services of an AHCI master, who will personally produce some of my higher-end models in future. AHCI is definitely the creme de la creme of the watchmaking universe, so the fact that China has two masters in the group, including one honorific member, must say something.

As to fluff, to an extent we already have that with our beautiful bespoke leather cases (designed specifically for our Imperial) and the Connoisseurs Circle handover events (dinner and drinks and a short talk, and owners personally collecting their watches). The first of these events will be in November in Singapore followed with one in Europe early next year. Brochures are unnecessary, as we will only have a few models in our line-up, furthering the idea of simplicity and purity of our line. Boutiques and sales staff are in the pipeline, but meanwhile I have dealers to retail the watches. More than ten worldwide have approached me, and I only accepted two in London and Paris respectively, as I wanted them not only to know a little about my watches but more importantly to have a desire to learn more about Chinese horological history. At present production I can offer personal service to every customer, which is what I prefer.

As for a website, that is easily done, but would add little I think at present while contributing to higher prices. I will have one soon nonetheless - although no webstore will be there (tad tacky). I envision one like Charvet - a single page with contact info and just the necessary details.

There will be an ad and a feature in Revolution soon, as well as a review on a very prominent watch blog (blogger is a personal friend - full disclosure).

Lots of upgrade options for the strap and watch case as well, but it is bespoke so the prices really depend on what you choose. I will put up estimates nearer to delivery. Eventually we intend to include all these as standard, which will be factored into higher prices.

And lastly, let me leave you with two further related threads. They are both on my blog, but it seems not everyone reads right to the front.
http://home.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-17/pi-5697898/ti-841178/

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/something-cool-beijing-865427.html
post #24813 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post


I also think there's different degrees of brand whore-ism. Like Dino alluded, there are those that will buy from Brand X because it's Brand X and everyone will know it's from Brand X. Then there are those that choose to spend their money on quality items, and yes they come from Brand X, but they buy them because they have good experience with that brand, believe in the quality/craftsmanship and style and thus decide to patronize that brand. Oh and they also get a great quality item (clothing, watch, car). Being from a prestigious brand is a plus in this case. I think we agree we mostly fall into the latter, no?

 

Here, yes.  Mostly.  But I don't consider the latter category a subset of brandwhorism at all.  Buying a particular product from a given brand because you find value in the product itself and have good experiences with similar products from that brand doesn't make you a brand whore.  The first group you describe - yes - there are your brand whores right there.  So it may be a matter of semantics, but I don't really see it as a question of degree as you have described it.

 

Perhaps a subset of the brand whore group are those with blind brand bias - they can't accept that quality and value exist outside of certain given brands, or in some cases, a given region.  They take every opportunity to disparage that which falls outside the scope of their brand faves.  Consciously or subconsciously, they assess the merits of any offering outside of their pet brands with a presumption of poor design and poor quality.  And that presumption is not rebuttable by any reference to reality.  There is always a better choice within the confines of their brands, because by definition, they are superior.  A fairly populous group, this.

post #24814 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ B ~ View Post

Continuing on from Mimo's post...

Actually there are many high-end brands that are good value, and to an extent they do market themselves this way in a covert or less covert manner. Vacheron tends to be better value than equivalent Pateks. Newer high-end brands like Parmigiani and Moser have even better case and movement finishing than Vacheron, and yet have lower prices.

Also I would definitely not consider my watch for a "poor man", but rather a "discerning man". So the Morgan analogy is quite apt. If you think of Patek and Vacheron as Kiton and Brioni, then my brand would likely be a bespoke tailor, one with less BS like some we know on Savile Row, and with more substance and better serivce and workmanship.

I get your kit car analogy. I think a watch equivalent to a kit car is like Kemmner or one of the several home casers. Nothing wrong with those, at the right price. But my watches are made in a professional, established factory, with 55 years of watchmaking history and positioned as the finest of the Chinese makers. So you could call it a Bugatti even. Don't forget I have the services of an AHCI master, who will personally produce some of my higher-end models in future. AHCI is definitely the creme de la creme of the watchmaking universe, so the fact that China has two masters in the group, including one honorific member, must say something.

As to fluff, to an extent we already have that with our beautiful bespoke leather cases (designed specifically for our Imperial) and the Connoisseurs Circle handover events (dinner and drinks and a short talk, and owners personally collecting their watches). The first of these events will be in November in Singapore followed with one in Europe early next year. Brochures are unnecessary, as we will only have a few models in our line-up, furthering the idea of simplicity and purity of our line. Boutiques and sales staff are in the pipeline, but meanwhile I have dealers to retail the watches. More than ten worldwide have approached me, and I only accepted two in London and Paris respectively, as I wanted them not only to know a little about my watches but more importantly to have a desire to learn more about Chinese horological history. At present production I can offer personal service to every customer, which is what I prefer.

As for a website, that is easily done, but would add little I think at present while contributing to higher prices. I will have one soon nonetheless - although no webstore will be there (tad tacky). I envision one like Charvet - a single page with contact info and just the necessary details.

There will be an ad and a feature in Revolution soon, as well as a review on a very prominent watch blog (blogger is a personal friend - full disclosure).

Lots of upgrade options for the strap and watch case as well, but it is bespoke so the prices really depend on what you choose. I will put up estimates nearer to delivery. Eventually we intend to include all these as standard, which will be factored into higher prices.

And lastly, let me leave you with two further related threads. They are both on my blog, but it seems not everyone reads right to the front.
http://home.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-17/pi-5697898/ti-841178/

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/something-cool-beijing-865427.html

 

 

Ben - I do not think I have replied directly to any of your posts below but let me just say that I am intrigued by what you're doing and wish you all the best in your endeavors.


And - I may become a client at some point too.  Keep it up.

post #24815 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

Stitch - Football and watches would be great if any of teams (home, fantasy etc..) could pull out a V for me. Also football players can have pretty awful tastes in watches. TENNIS players on the other hand..

if only, brother.
post #24816 of 34026

rnguy - I think you misunderstood my point.  I never claimed that Seiko has little interest in selling the GS line outside of Japan. I said that they have little interest in selling in great volume - whether in their domestic market or abroad.  For that reason, pointing to their low volume as a sign of failure of the GS line isn't entirely valid.  Not even a little bit valid, actually.

 

There are more than a few niche Swiss brands that have made low volume a key part of their brand identity - and people don't generally point to them and say "They sell so few because they can't sell any more."  Heck, even Patek used to pride themselves on very low product volume.

post #24817 of 34026
Anybody seen the "Heritage Subs" yet?

Big crown, "vintage" lume, red triangle, etc.....

Read about it here (plenty more pics): http://rolexpassionreport.com/13265/the-heritage-submariner-big-crown-fusion-of-modern-and-vintage-for-60th-anniversary-of-the-iconic-steel-rolex-submariner/



post #24818 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post


Ben - I do not think I have replied directly to any of your posts below but let me just say that I am intrigued by what you're doing and wish you all the best in your endeavors.


And - I may become a client at some point too.  Keep it up.

Thank you frills! Every word of encouragement means so much to a small brand, just starting out, in an industry dominated by conglomerates and behemoths who try to stamp out all competition.

And thanks, we will be here whenever you choose to have one of our watches.

On a separate note, I want to reply to a few of the older posts from a few days ago, but will post up my live prototype photo first. Can barely contain the excitement.
post #24819 of 34026
RP - sorry that wasn't my intent at all, so I blame it on my poor writing skills. I actually agree in that I think GS is not concerned with huge market volumes, but I would still be curious to know what their target demo is, their vision for their owners and what in the end GS considers being successful. I agree with you in I think GS is trying to appeal to other markets and not by large volume. Never a contention so sorry if that's how it came across on my end. I'm actually a "desk' fan of GS (fandom behind the computer) only because no one in my area carries them

For example some companies will probably define success as selling as many of their watches as possible, while others wish for their timepieces to be bought by those who would truly appreciate them for their fine craftsmanship. Again, I think GS is more of the latter than the former. In this respect I would love to see how GS is doing.
post #24820 of 34026

I hadn't heard about the heritage subs but the pictured watch looks freakin' cool!

post #24821 of 34026
And finally, we present the prototype of the Imperial, the first and flagship watch of Maison CELADON. The prototype shown bears the Rice Paper Cream dial with blued steel CELADON Crown and hands, and stock mid-brown calf strap.

This photo was taken by the manufactory in Beijing before it was shipped over to us. We received the prototype on Monday 9 September, and can affirm that the watch looks even more impressive in the flesh.

Thus far, the movement has been checked and is keeping good time and falls within power reserve expectations. In fact it appears that the SB18-6 movement has been further improved over the test movement made in December of last year. The adjustment of the hands, for example, feels much more solid. Under thorough examination with a 10x loupe (diamond-grade, whereas watch loupes are usually only 4x), our Founder who is an Antwerp-qualified Certified Diamond Grader, found absolutely no flaws on dial or movement.

The most immediately impressive aspect of the watch is the serene beauty of the dial. The very dark blue hands and Crown (darker than in the photo) are incredibly subtle and play off the light cream dial wonderfully, very much like a Ming blue-and-white vase. The guilloche veritably sparkles like a jewel under light; the flower in the central portion seems to be three-dimensional at certain angles. This, coupled with the three-facet applique hour markers, yields a dial that is both complex, yet elegant. A dial that is simple and pure, yet imbued with inimitable Chinese character.

We will be posting up more professional photos of the prototype in the coming days, where the above effects will be more apparent. In the meantime, enjoy...

post #24822 of 34026
I like the new case bevel. Perhaps Rolex should start doing this. As far as the rest they should've gone all the way and made a matte dial. (Urk, I'm speaking of the Rolex a few posts up of course)

The Celadon watch looks beautiful.
post #24823 of 34026
been a little bit since i shared some of my work goings on. some stuff i am getting ready....



sub from 98, just serviced by rolex in july of this year.





DJ that i bet no one here will like. heck, i dont really like it.




a wonderful chopard. i dont generally love their stuff, but i think this watch is gorgeous, and baby got back, too.





and a roadster!

post #24824 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

RP - sorry that wasn't my intent at all, so I blame it on my poor writing skills. I actually agree in that I think GS is not concerned with huge market volumes, but I would still be curious to know what their target demo is, their vision for their owners and what in the end GS considers being successful. I agree with you in I think GS is trying to appeal to other markets and not by large volume. Never a contention so sorry if that's how it came across on my end. I'm actually a "desk' fan of GS (fandom behind the computer) only because no one in my area carries them

For example some companies will probably define success as selling as many of their watches as possible, while others wish for their timepieces to be bought by those who would truly appreciate them for their fine craftsmanship. Again, I think GS is more of the latter than the former. In this respect I would love to see how GS is doing.

 

No need to apologize my man - we understand each other.  It would be interesting to know the production numbers for the GS - I know I have read it somewhere in the past (I've been a GS fan for years) but can't now recall the number of even the source.  I doubt that they would publicly put a specific number on their desires sales volume for the GS, but like you, I'm pretty sure than answer isn't "as many was we possibly can".  Though no doubt that applies to the rest of their lines.

post #24825 of 34026
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 

I hadn't heard about the heritage subs but the pictured watch looks freakin' cool!

 

 

On second thought - customized by someone other than Rolex plus a retail price of GBP15,000.00 = fail.  IMO.

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