or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1652

post #24766 of 35563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Mimo Great post.  

I think what Ben is attempting to do is very impressive and noble.  Its definitely a tough road to travel.  I think the "Made in China" label will be tough for many to get past particularly if some of the watches end up costing a few thousand dollars.  People (particularly those outside of Asia) just don't associate Asia as being a producer of high quality luxury watches.  

Even those that academically think the Grand Seikos are great watches, don't often buy them.  In the past few people told me how great the Grand Seiko is and that they would buy one...funny thing is that when they have been able to buy a luxury watch they seem to come home with a Rolex, Omega, or other brand more commonly associated with luxury goods, rather than the Grand Seiko they previously spoke about purchasing.


I admire what Ben is doing and I hope that he will have success doing it, or at least a lot of fun.   

Both of the above paragraphs are very pertinent, and go back to a discussion that we briefly had in this thread a few months ago.

At that time, I put up a post which pondered why a lot of people on SF (as an example) were very happy to use small, exclusive ateliers for clothing that cost a large amount of money and that was largely unknown outside a small circle of people (so the very antithesis of name-brand, logo clothing) but that, when it comes to watches, those same people very clearly prefer to purchase watches that are very much "name brands", with clearly visible logos and which come from manufacturers that spend large amounts on advertising - Rolex, Panerai, AP, PP and so on.

It seemed like an interesting example of a sort of cognitive dissonance to me - on the one hand, in terms of clothing, some people were clearly searching for something that was unbranded and exclusive, known only to a relatively small number of people, whilst on the other hand, those same people were purchasing watches that were clearly branded and very well-known.

Of course, this isn't an eternal rule - there are plenty of WISs out there who have some watches from the big brands, whilst also having watches from smaller houses or solo manufacturers.

A few knowledgeable members (including Dino, from memory) chimed in with thoughtful responses, and made some very valid points such as the big watch brands being a known quantity in terms of quality, easy availability of parts and servicing, good resale value (as quite a few WISs like to sell watches after a while to acquire more/different watches) and so on.

So, as Dino and others have noted, for various reasons, even though lesser-known brands may make great quality watches, a lot of people prefer to keep on purchasing watches from big brands for the reasons note above and as a result, brands like GS may well have trouble gaining traction outside their home countries.
post #24767 of 35563
The difference being that in the case of the clothing makers, these small and relatively unknown makers have a mystique about them and have nothing else associated with them other then their handiwork.

However, in the case of GS they have a very strong association with their product, namely watches that one can get for 100 bucks.

A small boutique watch brand that's aims to sell high quality watches for a lot of money and have nothing else associated with themselves other than their product will always have a better shot than someone like Seiko selling a GS.

There are no shortage of such brands, and I wish you the best of luck as well. However it should be noted that these brands do not generally capture a large market, (that is part of being a small maker), and in that way they are not dissimilar from the GS.

Each one will appeal to a select group of followers, and I hope that you find a select group of loyal followers as well.
post #24768 of 35563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

Guys, we are all brand whores, to some degree or another. No one wants one of their top 3-5 watches (in terms of both price and place in collection) to be from a brand associated with making $100 watches. If it's your 10th watch, or 20th, or 100th, then sure, get the Grand Seiko. But none-WIS's won't get it, and if that's important to you - even a little bit - you won't spend your money on it.

 

 

It's really not that important to me whether non-WISs "get" my watch selection.  I'm not buying to impress them - or anyone else for that matter.  I understand that this matters to many, but I can assure you it doesn't matter to all.  Brand whores may feel the need to believe that all others are just the same as they are.  But this simply isn't so.

post #24769 of 35563
I couldn't wait any longer (forgive the crummy cellphone photo):

post #24770 of 35563
Superb!
post #24771 of 35563
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Superb!

Thank you smile.gif

I'll take a better photo as soon as I get home and share that here.
post #24772 of 35563
I hear what you're saying Stitches and admittedly don't know enough about GS to comment on just how well they sell or what their market strategy is.

As an analogy though Lexus was able to grab a good market share out of the shadow of Toyota and then compete with Mercedes BMW Audi etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

The difference being that in the case of the clothing makers, these small and relatively unknown makers have a mystique about them and have nothing else associated with them other then their handiwork.

However, in the case of GS they have a very strong association with their product, namely watches that one can get for 100 bucks.

A small boutique watch brand that's aims to sell high quality watches for a lot of money and have nothing else associated with themselves other than their product will always have a better shot than someone like Seiko selling a GS.

There are no shortage of such brands, and I wish you the best of luck as well. However it should be noted that these brands do not generally capture a large market, (that is part of being a small maker), and in that way they are not dissimilar from the GS.

Each one will appeal to a select group of followers, and I hope that you find a select group of loyal followers as well.

Edited by rnguy001 - 9/10/13 at 6:43pm
post #24773 of 35563
Very nice looking Tudor, even with the blurry cell phone pick! Look forward to seeing some more pictures!
post #24774 of 35563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

Very nice looking Tudor, even with the blurry cell phone pick! Look forward to seeing some more pictures!

Thank you smile.gif

I'm on my way home now, will have a better pic to share then.
post #24775 of 35563
rnguy - That is certainly true, and one should never underestimate the value of the fact that those two cars do not share the same name. Even though it is public knowledge that they're of same company, the fact that the name is different allows them to be viewed differently, and always will be.
post #24776 of 35563
On one level yes. But Lexus and Infiniti as brands are essentially products of US import controls. They then took off globally (well, Lexus did), but a lot of their cars are sold under the parent marque in to Japan market.
post #24777 of 35563
I'm home now, so here's a better shot of the Tudor, which I picked up today from the dealer in Sydney:

post #24778 of 35563

Congratulations, Wraith - looks great on you.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

On one level yes. But Lexus and Infiniti as brands are essentially products of US import controls. They then took off globally (well, Lexus did), but a lot of their cars are sold under the parent marque in to Japan market.

 

That may well be true, at least in part, but it's a very US-centric view: Lexus went at the GCC and other Asian markets equally hard, and made their mark very quickly, taking on the S-Class and 7-Series directly.  They did things like open exclusive leisure clubs for owners, and produced a lot of high-quality branded accessories from the beginning.  It was excellent marketing, and to go from being a Toyota to a Lexus so quickly, was really something most brand owners could only dream of.  Of course it also helped that the cars and the service were both excellent, and that Toyota already had a proud reputation for reliability and value.  The Infiniti project, coming second, also happened more slowly.  Perhaps because it was so expected, but also because they didn't do as much of the "club" thing in which Lexus had invested heavily from day one.

 

So back to Ben, and Maison Celadon.  In some ways the Lexus and Seiko analogies are complete diversions: Ben has no problems in being associated with an established cheap brand, at least not in terms of a brand name.  He's not making a Beijing watch or a Sea Gull.  Also, as I mentioned before, my biggest issue with Grand Seiko wouldn't be the name.  It would be that I just don't find them as distinctive and beautiful as some others.  Honestly, there are many beautiful things made in Japan, but in the field of industrial design I do find their products rather sterile and derivative.  It was no accident that the original Lexus, the LS400, looked a lot like a Mercedes.  I don't think it's any accident either that a GS looks so much like a Rolex.  They imitate, however deliberately or otherwise, the market leaders, and in some ways that makes sense.  But more for a car than a watch.  Spring drives and quality standards aside, a watch is never really about its function in the way a car is.  It's about it's style.  I would surmise that Nuke didn't just buy a JLC because he thought it was more prestigious than a GS.  I suspect that the JLC looked more distinctively like a JLC, more original, more personality.  I like the look of a lot of Seikos, but the ones to which I'm most drawn are the most unusual.  Too many, to me, in design concept are just too similar to a Sub or a PO. And that, far more than the name, is what looks like a cheap watch.  Of course Nuke can only speak for himself, and if I had the $40k, I'd buy the Lange instead of the Patek just because I love it more.  There is no good reason.

 

In Ben's case, the Celadon doesn't look like a Rolex or an Omega or anything else.  For this, perhaps more than anything, I congratulate him. He has designed something that looks Chinese, is inspired by other designs, and has a clear aesthetic origin.  But it's not an homage and doesn't look like one.  The single, huge burden on this brand is that it's Chinese, which in itself associates in the consumer's mind with poor quality and low prices.  But I think the design is strong.  If the quality is what it should be, then the brand can be strong.  Going for this "club" feel with his "Connoisseurs' Circle" is a good approach, just like Lexus did, although it has to have some substance that is about added product rather than discounting.  Loyalty points aren't prestigious.  Complimentary monogrammed leather wash bags are prestigious.  Or something.  If the ephemeral trappings add $500 to the price, so be it, because cheap in itself is not always associated with value - and rarely in the case of luxury goods.  But add them: make the default straps from crocodile or cordovan or ostrich or whatever. Maybe provide more than one?  Include a deployant option. Put it in a monstrous box with a wallet or a pen finished in the same leather as the watch strap. And get that website up, without the process, but with all the eloquent and romantic design history.

 

Maybe I'm just an optimist by nature, but I believe he can pull this off.  I just think it will take a little more confidence, braggadocio...some sincerely confident bullshit that tells people this impressive package can be yours, looking and smelling and feeling fantastic before you even open the box, making you feel like you've just bought something.  I'm also volunteering publicly and officially to help. :)

post #24779 of 35563

Wraith - that's a very handsome watch - congrats!

post #24780 of 35563
Very nice Wraith! It looks great on your wrist!

Also, just for a fun hump-day question: which would you choose, the black / black Rolex GMT, or the black / blue Rolex GMT?

This thread on TRF had me thinking (easy morning reading): https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=306969&page=2

Although I initially was leaning more towards the black / blue, I can't help but feel like the black / black is the 'better' option. The black / blue is definitely sexier, but I wonder if I would ever get sick of it! The black / black is tried, tested, and true (especially when you consider it is a logical extension of the submariner).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread