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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1349

post #20221 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

The ice blue is great.  For ladies.  Although last night I dreamed about that girly blue platinum Daytona that I had been ridiculing just hours earlier.  Maybe I'm a closet lover of ridiculous effeminate watches?

In the mean time, back to the subject of proper manly blues, I saw this and thought of you.  Happy birthday.

I had the original version of that watch, the 228, done as a limited run of 100 for their Florence boutique. Stunning blue in person.
post #20222 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

^^you raise some damn good points here.
Thanks, Derek. To put it bluntly, a platinum Daytona is what some would call (and wear as) a "fuck-off" watch, and I'm fine with that. It has the capacity to be something other than a simple money bludgeon, though, due to its reasonable size and platinum's tendency to go a bit matte with use. It can still stand on its own as a beautiful and even semi-stealthy watch once you take away the whole Rolex thing. It's all in how you wear it.
post #20223 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

I'm pretty sure that platinum, especially in its usual alloys, is actually softer than 18k gold. (yes, I've been doing some reading sitchy... shog[1].gif )

cant speak for all the alloys, but i have spoken to many jewelers and read much about it, all of which said plat was harder. as well, i have held a great deal of plat and 18k jewelry in my hand. i can easily bend 18k jewelry with my hand, plat, not so. much harder. i am not saying there is no plat alloy that is not more pliable than a certain 18k alloy, but standard 950 plat is far harder than 18k gold.

now, by softer, you may also be referring to hardness, as in scratch resistance. in which case plat is very easily scratched, quite possibly more so than 18. but as far as bending it and molding it, as far as i know from working with it, and from hearing from jewelers, and from reading about it, plat is harder than 18k.

also, dino, 10k is 41.7% gold, or at least it is supposed to be. much of it is 39.5%.
post #20224 of 35098
Until you take a Patek, BP, Glasutte, AP... - any of which can be beautiful- in for repair & cough up 5K, maybe you start thinking that a nice, reliable Rolex is the ticket.
post #20225 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Thanks, Derek. To put it bluntly, a platinum Daytona is what some would call (and wear as) a "fuck-off" watch, and I'm fine with that. It has the capacity to be something other than a simple money bludgeon, though, due to its reasonable size and platinum's tendency to go a bit matte with use. It can still stand on its own as a beautiful and even semi-stealthy watch once you take away the whole Rolex thing. It's all in how you wear it.

agreed again. The point you raised of having a watch that you can wear in any situation is quite true...however, if youre buying an $80K watch, its safe to say its not gonna be your only watch. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

cant speak for all the alloys, but i have spoken to many jewelers and read much about it, all of which said plat was harder. as well, i have held a great deal of plat and 18k jewelry in my hand. i can easily bend 18k jewelry with my hand, plat, not so. much harder. i am not saying there is no plat alloy that is not more pliable than a certain 18k alloy, but standard 950 plat is far harder than 18k gold.

now, by softer, you may also be referring to hardness, as in scratch resistance. in which case plat is very easily scratched, quite possibly more so than 18. but as far as bending it and molding it, as far as i know from working with it, and from hearing from jewelers, and from reading about it, plat is harder than 18k.

also, dino, 10k is 41.7% gold, or at least it is supposed to be. much of it is 39.5%.


this is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcam8 View Post

Until you take a Patek, BP, Glasutte, AP... - any of which can be beautiful- in for repair & cough up 5K, maybe you start thinking that a nice, reliable Rolex is the ticket.

well, like i said above...if you can afford 80K for a watch, the 5K maintenance every 15 years isnt gonna be a concern. wink.gif
post #20226 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

The ice blue is great.  For ladies.  Although last night I dreamed about that girly blue platinum Daytona that I had been ridiculing just hours earlier.  Maybe I'm a closet lover of ridiculous effeminate watches?

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH THAT DIAL IS AWESOME AND FOR MANLY MEN!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

sound advice stitchy!

less is more? YO FUCK THAT SHIT!! MORE IS MORE!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

IMO a great part of the appeal of the Nautilus is that you want a sporty watch (common) that no one else has (rare). Same for the RO. Yes, you can appreciate the other tangible things about it (finish, design, movement, etc) but if for some reason tomorrow the MSRP on the Nautilus became $2k and Joe Sixpack on Main Street had one too demand would crash through the floor.

the only issue with this is, that it will never be a 2k watch. not by any maker. if it were, it would be a substantially different watch. now, i know its not loved across the board, i used be very unmoved by it. but i have come to love it.

i mean, why cant chevy make the volt look like a ferrari and sell it for 15k? because what goes into making that what it is, by nature is costly.

the finishing of the nautilus, the lines and angles, the movement, the whole shebang. its a great watch that some love and some hate. nor price nor exclusivity is not a factor is a factor imo.
post #20227 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcam8 View Post

Until you take a Patek, BP, Glasutte, AP... - any of which can be beautiful- in for repair & cough up 5K, maybe you start thinking that a nice, reliable Rolex is the ticket.
Bingo.

The time it can take to service them can be considerable as well, especially if you live outside the few cities that have their own service centres and have to get in the Swiss queue, in which case there's a decent chance that the duration is going to be measured in years.
post #20228 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


Permit me to play the devil's advocate here for a moment regarding the PtD. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

^^you raise some damn good points here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcam8 View Post

Until you take a Patek, BP, Glasutte, AP... - any of which can be beautiful- in for repair & cough up 5K, maybe you start thinking that a nice, reliable Rolex is the ticket.

 

I still think the "ice" Day-Date looks like a girl's watch.  But Counsellor Belligero for the defence is speaking sense.  Ultimately, a watch that belongs to a jerk is a jerks' watch, and a watch that belongs to a gentleman is a gentleman's watch.  If you look at this and love it, it's the one for you I suppose.  I'd still balk at the price, and maybe take a steel Daytona and a Datograph instead.  But those games we can play forever.

 

 

Apart from the fact that the PtD called to me weirdly in my dreams after I insulted it.  I'm beginning to suspect that to destroy one, a tiny dude with no shoes will have to cast it into a fire with a big eye hovering over it.

post #20229 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

well, like i said above...if you can afford 80K for a watch, the 5K maintenance every 15 years isnt gonna be a concern. wink.gif

I suppose for an 80K model. I was thinking of the more pedestrian types in the 10 - 20k range where a seemingly straight forward repair (not maintenance) can run 25% of the cost of the watch.
Even a mere 3K for cleaning on a 16K piece seems a bit out of line.
Just seems high to me. eh.gif
post #20230 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post



I still think the "ice" Day-Date looks like a girl's watch.  But Counsellor Belligero for the defence is speaking sense.  Ultimately, a watch that belongs to a jerk is a jerks' watch, and a watch that belongs to a gentleman is a gentleman's watch.  If you look at this and love it, it's the one for you I suppose.  I'd still balk at the price, and maybe take a steel Daytona and a Datograph instead.  But those games we can play forever.


Apart from the fact that the PtD called to me weirdly in my dreams after I insulted it.  I'm beginning to suspect that to destroy one, a tiny dude with no shoes will have to cast it into a fire with a big eye hovering over it.
Such is the dark magic of Rolex. Beware.
post #20231 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


The time it can take to service them can be considerable as well...

 

Ha.  If you live outside a major market...hell, if you live outside the US or Europe, service is an eye-pulling, ball-crushing, motherfucking nightmare on stilts.

 

Last year I got my super-simple, scruffy, three hand vintage Omega put back together.  Just a simple service, and replacement glass and crown, plus one non-original hand that had snuck in there about forty years ago.  It was the ex-dealer who still had some parts and whatnot, and was able to do it for me.  It was about $200 - plenty for just that, but probably as much as the watch is worth, just worth it for the sentimental value.  I was delighted with it.

 

Two months ago I dropped the poor beast on the floor, smashed the glass and the movement stopped.  Not wanting to take chances, I went straight to the new AD - a massive regional operation with about twenty brands including all the Swatch group and plenty of shittier designer stuff.  Anyway, they sent it to their regional centre.  Can't do anything.  Then got me to undertake to pay insured shipping costs to Switzerland ($120-ish) - regardless of whether I accept the repair quote - and sent it away.  After another month, I got an email: "We can't restore this as the dial is discontinued and this type cannot be restored".  All I asked was for a new glass and check/repair the movement.  So now I wait for a response to my angry-gram.

 

If that's what a manual-wind, three hand cheap vintage item does to you, I hate to think what I'd have to go through to service a Langematik, or, God forbid, fix one if it went wrong.

post #20232 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Such is the dark magic of Rolex. Beware.

This is happening to me with the skydweller a bit, but I don't really see one in my future.
post #20233 of 35098
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoKnewI View Post

my new stowa

Hi Kewl, Congrats and enjoy it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Permit me to play the devil's advocate here for a moment regarding the PtD. I kinda like it. It's very encouraging that the watch is staying at around 39 mm (the case appears to be very slightly wider than the steel and YG models), and I think it's going to be fairly understated, at least as far as top-of-the-range Rolex goes. €61550 is borderline taking-the-piss, but it's about what I expected considering that a platinum Day-Date costs about double what an 18K one does. C'est la vie.

Although the colour scheme is a bit pastel-ey and the term "ice blue" is ...well.. lame, I'd sure wear it. In fact, I'd be fine with it as my only watch. Better than fine, actually; I'd be freaking ecstatic, as I could then retire from ever giving a crap again about watches. Considering that Rolex has only produced the Day-Date in platinum before this, there's some significance in making the Daytona first watch in the sports range with this metal, and I'm glad that my prediction came true as it suits the watch. Also, who the hell wouldn't want a Pt Oyster bracelet on the wrist? There are very few watches that are offered with a platinum bracelet, and extremely few that actually look good on one.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I'm not sure whether they're my favourites, but I don't mind the colours, either. The brown looks great to me, and the Day-Date with that dial looks fine in person, though I might just be bypassing my critical reasoning faculties due to the metal. And what a metal! I have little interest in gold watches, but platinum is a different story. My favourite thing about it is that the more you wear it, the better it looks. It doesn't get rounded-off like gold or somewhat mangy like steel can sometimes get — it develops a subtle lustre over time that's unique to the metal. It's very hard yet incredibly ductile, it doesn't lose any weight from wearing... the stuff absolutely kicks ass.

Admittedly, for that cost, you have some tremendous options — the vast majority of which offer something other than a mass-produced chronograph movement, as stellar as the 4130 is. However, I feel limited when I'm wearing something with a less-robust movement. While I'm not particularly rough on watches, and my more complicated stuff has been fine so far even in the Norwegian drinking environment, simpler is often better. In (very roughly) that cost ballpark, I'd be more than a bit uncomfortable about wearing something as intricate as a Datograph, which is undeniably a great watch with a phenomenally beautiful movement inside. But the approval of self-appointed WIS-types ain't everything; I have never called myself one and I'd be tempted to slap someone who did. Seriously, though, there's undeniably some appeal to a watch you can wear every single day of your life, under any reasonable circumstances, without having to stress about it.

Plus the thing is waterproof. You could easily use it just as you would a steel watch. I can't think of any other in that rarefied price category that I'd be comfortable with having on my wrist 24/7. While I'm not a fan of watches that are heavy simply due to bulk, the slim Daytona in platinum is going to be formidable. The DD II is about 280 g, and I'd expect a PtD to be at least that. The thing is going to be an absolute beast, and I am most definitely looking forward to trying one on! It would be more than a bit foolish of me to buy it at this stage in my life, but I'm sure that there are plenty that will, and not all of them will be doing it out of ignorance of the other options.

 

Interesting opinion.  I love the ideal of a Platinum Daytona.  I had thought back in the 90s when I bought my first oen that it would be an amazing watch in platinum.  Very subtle (only a few might realize its not steel or wg), I love the sheer weight of platinum, and its more durable than gold.  Based on the amount of work it takes to mine platinum, the difficulties in working with it, and the volume of it you would be getting with a Daytona case and Oyster bracelet I can accept the price.  As a do anything kind of watch, it would surely work.  My main issue with it is the dial and bezel.  I think they could have really done something great with this watch, but instead it really starts to resemble a fashion watch, rather than a tool watch.   Ice blue and brown would work for me if it were a tie, but I just dont love it on a watch.  Sure thats purely subjective but for that kind of money I would have to love the watch...and this one, well I don't.    Maybe they will work on an alternative dial and bezel for those that don't want the "Paris Hilton edition." wink.gif

post #20234 of 35098

I'll take a wild guess at all platinum with mother of pearl dial and diamonds...

post #20235 of 35098

I just returned to the US on Monday after a month of travel, and wanted to put this thread in reverse for a moment to go back to a great post I was unable to comment upon before I left

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

That is an interesting question.  I supppose it raises the issue are we speaking solely of products that are "authentic" vs homage vs. fake...or just companies borrowing ideas of other companies and incorporating them for their own watches.  I do place a value on originality, hence homage watches do not interest me at all.  I have already stated several reasons I don't like fake watches a few pages back.  If I am looking within a class of watches, as long as they are very close in finish, the overall finish would not matter to me.  As for price as a factor, if I can't afford something that I admire, I'll either save up for it or I'll admire from a distance.  A less expensive look alike does not interest me.   I am not sure what other factors come into play besides cost vs originality.  Quality, I tend to think most high end brands have enough DNA and history to come up with their own designs rather than borrow from others...although back in the 1930s when several companies depended on similar sources for movements or cases you tended to end up with somewhat more similar designs say between Gruen and Rolex.

 

Perhaps an explanation of what I like about certain watches or brands might explain the value I place on originality.

I have always wanted at least one watch from each brand that interests me, and I suppose I often seek out is something iconic from these brand/s.  Rolex created the GMT Master in 1954.  Lots of companies have released similar designs over the years, but the only 2 that ever interested me and which I owned were the GMT Master and the Explorer 2 (which for many years was essentially an evolution/variation of the GMT Master).   I never saw a need to consider something beyond the original.  The design for the manual wind Cartier Tank has been around since 1917.  Many companies have sold and made rectangular watches over the years, but IMHO, the Cartier Tank is an iconic design that is simple, elegant, and is the original.  Not to mention in the version I have its doesn't merely use a round movement in a rectangular case (which is commonly done and less expensive to do because you can use that movement in lots of other watches), but it has a rectangular movement.  When it came to purchasing a steel luxury sports watch, I looked at various great brands, but kept coming back to AP.  The RO (often a love it or hate it design) started that genre of watches...so it was not just an original within its brand it was the original that led to the production of the PP Nautilus, VC 222, IWC Ing SL Jumbo, the GP Laureato, Chopard St. Mortiz etc.   Even within the brand, I decided if I only ever get one AP it has to be the RO 15202 (current generation of the Jumbo...which is the closest thing to what they originally produced in 1972).  These were all ground breaking designs, often imitated, sometimes copied...but each has also become a timeless classic.  Sure they have evolved, but each has been in production in some form or other for decades and looks as good today as it did when new. 

 

I would note that although I like iconic designs, I like there to be something original about them.  Hence, one watch that I really do not have much interest in is Patek's Calatrava.  There is no denying its an iconic piece, and that its been around for decades, but there is nothing really ground breaking or unique about its simple time only watches.  If I'm ever fortunate enough to purchase a Patek, I might go with something other than a Calatrava. 

 

Even a feature like a grand date, I only like on a Lange or JLC, as JLC developed it for use by Lange and Lange was the first to use it in a watch.  I don't care for the copy cat usuage of it on a VC, Cartier, Breitling or other brands.  Further, Cartier and Patek have each made "reversing" watches in the past.  However, if I were to get a watch with a reversible carriage for the dial/movement it would be the JLC Reverso....another original.  I've seen Omega make a Speedmaster that has the dial markings and colors of a Rolex "Exotic dial/Paul Newman Dial" Daytona.  To me the Speedy Pro is a great watch in its own right so to build a Speedy that looks like a coveted Rolex makes little sense to me.  A top condition PN Dial Daytona is out or my price range.  I've seen them and handled them and they are beautiful.  But I have no desire to own an Omega with Rolex PN Daytona inspired appearnace just to have the look of a watch that I like but I can't afford.  I would simply get a classic Speedy Pro. 

 

Hope this helps answer your question.

 

Again I recognize and have recognized in the past, that the GO Pano is high quality and a good value, however I would not be satisfied with look a like.  Thats just me.  Hope that helps answer your question.

Best regards,

Dino

 

In case people need a small refresher, the broader conversation was between DLJr and Dino944 about whether or not the GO PanomaticLunar was a rip-off of the ALS Lange 1. It's not my intention, however, to bring us back to this specific question (or related questions of authenticity).

 

Rather, I want to draw our attention to Dino's response in terms of his ability to reduce his interest in our shared hobby to a single word: originality. The subsequent examples he writes afterward can all be traced back to this point, and I want to ask if can anyone else can do the same? Are you as acutely aware of why you're here?

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