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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1289

post #19321 of 35582
Dp
post #19322 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

Badness. Love to see what else is on the winder

Thanks man - haha, guess you'll just have to wait satisfied.gif
post #19323 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flake View Post

More pedestrian Speedy here

Lovely! What strap is it?

post #19324 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahdaeeeee View Post

I thought all of the Portuguese uses in-house movements. Isn't that the reason people are willing to pay a higher price for? The in-house movements which resulted in accuracy?
No, not all Portugese models use an in house movement. Some have used JLC movements and the chronographs have used Valjoux 7750s. An inhouse movement does not mean a watch is more accurate. However, in today's market place many people prefer an in house movement. Some may feel its more exclusive and getting more value for what you pay, (if spending x amount on a watch, do you want what's inside to also power a bunch of less expensive pieces also?). But some great watches have used movements from other companies. Patek and VC have used Lemania bases in chronographs such as the 5070, 3970, and Historique and Malte Chronographs. In addition, the movement in PPs first Jumbo Nautilus, APs RO Jumbo, and VCs 222 were all based on JLCs cal 920. So I personally would not be against an outsourced movement, depending on the quality, price point,and type of watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Allez View Post


What do you think about the merits of collecting smaller watches in general? I am of the view that the recent trend towards larger watches is depressing the market for smaller watches in the secondary market. I think the prices of these watches will eventually rebound to the collector's benefit when that trend reverses. By smaller, I guess I mean under 38mm. Yes? No?

My advice would be buy what you like and what you are comfortable wearing. The big watch preference has been around for quite a while now. I occasionally hear people say the trend will or is moving toward watches that are not so large. But that remains to be seen. There are still lots of large watches out there and new ones being released each year. Like anything if the trend strongly toward larger watches prices on smaller to normal sizes will remain depressed. It can represent a bargain for some buyers, but like anything they shouldn't buy with the idea they will see an increase in value soon or possibly ever. It depends on what buyers want in the future and there are never any guarantees. Buy what you like, and if values stay the same you won't be disappointed and you will have something you like, and should values increase well that's just an added benefit.
post #19325 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post


Clearly you guys do not follow auctions at all. Auction results are the best determinant of a watch's "value" as a function of "desirability". This desirability is not set in stone though - it waxes and wanes, like anyone who has followed the "value" of Jaguar E types will attest.

And "discontinued small dress watches" from a certain house are amongst the best consistently performing class of auctioned watches, so that comment doesn't quite add up. I imagine the effect is slightly different for IWC though as it is not known or valued for its small dress watches, not even the old Ingenuier line.

Finally I am also not sure why "chicks digging" a watch is of any value in this discussion, let alone this thread. They are an exceptionally unlettered population when it comes to watches, and its somewhat akin to saying hey guidos dig my aldos... so they must be good. tongue.gif

I think you took the part about chicks digging their watches a bit too seriously... may be some truth there, but I thought it was a bit of having fun and joking around.

As for car and watch auctions, while they are indicators of price and desirability, there can be big variations, and car have certain factors that affect their auction estimates and prices.

As for variations, Antiquorum just sold a pump pusher steel exotic/Paul Newman dial Daytona for roughly 3 times its estimate or about $215,000 IIRC correctly. Whether it was a few insane collectors that got into a bidding war, and someone grossly over paid, or whether values will head there remains to be seen. It's a nice watch but I think the guy grossly overpaid ( I'd prefer a PN dial Daytona with screw down pushers anyway).

Perhaps ive read you automobile auction a bit too seriously, however i would note car auctions differ from watch auctions in that people are often searching out the dream car of their youth. So as certain generations of buyers reach a point where they have disposable fun money, interest and prices drastically increase in various vintages of cars. I'm not really sure this has really been seen or has been sited by many collectors as to why they have bought a particular watch. In addition, as the generation of people that saw Duesenbergs as the ultimate automobile have died off, prices dropped significantly. Whether that will happen with some watches in the future who knows.
post #19326 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post


No, not all Portugese models use an in house movement. Some have used JLC movements and the chronographs have used Valjoux 7750s. An inhouse movement does not mean a watch is more accurate. However, in today's market place many people prefer an in house movement. Some may feel its more exclusive and getting more value for what you pay, (if spending x amount on a watch, do you want what's inside to also power a bunch of less expensive pieces also?). But some great watches have used movements from other companies. Patek and VC have used Lemania bases in chronographs such as the 5070, 3970, and Historique and Malte Chronographs. In addition, the movement in PPs first Jumbo Nautilus, APs RO Jumbo, and VCs 222 were all based on JLCs cal 920. So I personally would not be against an outsourced movement, depending on the quality, price point,and type of watch.

 

Thanks for that. What you said is true, the reason people prefer in house movement is because it is more exclusive, I mean I can say that for me. Nonetheless, that does not make the Portuguese an inferior watch. What's your take on the Portuguese Chrono? 

post #19327 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

You are so literal, it's laughable. 

But I'll take chicks digging something over your perpetual scoffing disapproval any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I think you took the part about chicks digging their watches a bit too seriously... may be some truth there, but I thought it was a bit of having fun and joking around.

Wouldn't it be hilarious/awesome if I was a chick? eek.gif

Nah, you guys are right, I totally misjudged that one. RogerP, with regards to the "perpetual scoffing disapproval", you're lucky I left my monocle and cane at home today so it's actually more like "annual scoffing disapproval" actually. (terrible WIS joke) icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Perhaps ive read you automobile auction a bit too seriously, however i would note car auctions differ from watch auctions in that people are often searching out the dream car of their youth. So as certain generations of buyers reach a point where they have disposable fun money, interest and prices drastically increase in various vintages of cars. I'm not really sure this has really been seen or has been sited by many collectors as to why they have bought a particular watch. In addition, as the generation of people that saw Duesenbergs as the ultimate automobile have died off, prices dropped significantly. Whether that will happen with some watches in the future who knows.

Oh, I only used the E type as an example because it's relatively well known, and given it was produced in relatively large numbers, rarity becomes less of an factor influencing price.
post #19328 of 35582

 

My first "real" watch: Muhle Glashutte Germanika V.

post #19329 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by katastrofa View Post

 

My first "real" watch: Muhle Glashutte Germanika V.

 

 

Good lookin out! Wear it in g.h. &c.

post #19330 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Agreed. IMO the real value in this thread comes from posts, not photos.

Photos you can find anywhere on the internet easily - you can set up an RSS aggregator to stream feeds from various tumblrs and blogs and have literally 100s of new watch photos to sift through each day.

Quality discussion about watches from opinionated and (sometimes, hehe) knowledgeable folk? Now that's a little less common. smile.gif
Absolutely. It brings to mind a recent post on TZ-UK in response to someone's lament about being "bored with watches" — a first-world problem if ever there was one.

Just buying watches and taking pics to show off to like-minded individuals is pretty shallow. Let's face it, your only input in that situation is money.
Vintage watches, learning about watch movements and the chance of a coup at an antiques market/boot sale is the only thing that has kept me interested over time.
Conspicuous consumption of expensive baubles is not a hobby and is pretty meaningless in reality.

I'll add consideration of design principles to that list. I find Dino's writing particularly illuminating in this regard, as his approach to watches is based on history and design fundamentals. The recent posts on originality and lack of interest in "homage" watches clearly articulated this mindset, and provide insight that's unmistakably the product of considerable deliberation and a well-developed sense of discernment.

Watches do become a bit boring without this broader context, just like every other category of stuff. In fact, the learning can be more satisfying than the actual ownership experience, as the majority of experienced watch/clothing/car/motorcycle/audio/coffee/camera/etc. nuts can tell you. For me, the part that truly engages is trying to understand the elements that constitute a quality design, much more so than simply possessing the object itself. You certainly don't need to own a watch to make meaningful contributions to this type of discussion.

The more you learn about enduring and well-appreciated design of any type, the more you discover how much the principles are transferable in both the concrete and the abstract sense — that's the "aha!" bit.

Edited for following reason: "The only grammar Nazi you want to see in a thread is yourself."
Edited by Belligero - 3/26/13 at 5:02am
post #19331 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahdaeeeee View Post

 

Thanks for clarifying. Still an amateur on these watches. I thought all of the Portuguese uses in-house movements. Isn't that the reason people are willing to pay a higher price for? The in-house movements which resulted in accuracy?

 

Dino has provided a comprehensive answer to that one.  IWC is certainly using more in-house movements than they did 10 or 20 years ago, but a number of models still use third party movements.  Such watches tend to sit at the more afforable end of the IWC scale and may seem a relative bargain in that context, but can suffer in a comparative value assessment with far less expensive watches from many other brands using essentially the same movements.  While it's true that a watch is more than its movement, in the context of mechanical watches there is no other single element that holds greater importance.

 

My comment about comparative accuracy was made in the context of a discussion of the well known accuracy issues surrounding IWC's 7-day movement.  Odds are that an IWC equipped with a basic third party movement (such as the 7750-powered Portuguese Chrono) will do better in terms of timekeeping than one equipped with that more costly in-house caliber.


Edited by RogerP - 3/26/13 at 6:49am
post #19332 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by nttdocomo View Post

Lovely! What strap is it?

OEM Omega black croc deployant.
post #19333 of 35582
Yes Roger is right. My IWC Galapagos (valjoux chrono), was more accurate than either my in house IWC 7 day models..


Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post



My comment about comparative accuracy was made in the context of a discussion of the well known accuracy issues surrounding IWC's 7-day movement.  Odds are that an IWC equipped with a basic third party movement (such as the 7750-powered Portuguese Chrono) will do better in terms of timekeeping than one equipped with that more costly in-house caliber.
post #19334 of 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

 

You are so literal, it's laughable. 

 

But I'll take chicks digging something over your perpetual scoffing disapproval any day.

cheers.gif

post #19335 of 35582
Squelette
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