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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1283

post #19231 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

As for Lange not being as you say "Honest."  Well I suppose from a puritanical view of using only what is necessary in a watch, maybe that makes sense.  But at the price range they are competing in, their movements should look beautiful, impressive, and be a distinctive.

You aren't getting it. They do things that nobody else does, including those priced above them. The screwed chatons are laughable since they mimmic a method of securing jewels that is no longer necessary and which nobody has used in decades. Why? Because Lange today has no genuine heritage. It is a re-imagined company, like Breguet, trying to draw tenuous connections with a distant past. The original Lange never made wristwatches and went defunct before screwed chatons became obsolete. The blued screws are similarly silly.

Moreover, the finishing quality is not as good as the likes of Patek. Viewed closely, it is simply not as fine and careful. It is just more flashy. Like an alligator suit.
post #19232 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch38 View Post

Wow, that totally floored me. Amazing watch, I've never seen one that beautiful.

Thanks Moloch cheers.gif

post #19233 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


Again, there is quantity and there is quality. You wrongly assume that more embellishment is necessarily more labor intensive.

Are you really going to stand on a "soap box" and say that a more finely decorated movement can be done in less time and is less labor intensive?  Spin it any way you want, its not really credible.  All of the honestly, sparsely decorated movements don't mean very much when there are serious complaints about accuracy, and when much of their production is a sad styling exercise.  I see too many inconsistencies with the brand as a whole to believe in your IWC honesty campaign.  Sorry, but I miss the IWC of 10+ years ago.

post #19234 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Are you really going to stand on a "soap box" and say that a more finely decorated movement can be done in less time?  Spin it any way you want.  All of the honestly, sparsely decorated movements don't mean very much when there are serious complaints about accuracy, and when much of their production is a sad styling exercise.  Sorry, but I miss the IWC of 10+ years ago.

NO. Jeezus. How are you getting confused by this? What is more work: a greater amount of poorly executed embellishment, or a lesser amount of better executed embellishment? This is not rocket science and I don't know how to make this more simple to understand.

Quantity of embellishment and quality of embellishment are separate issues. You are conflating the two.
post #19235 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Moreover, the finishing quality is not as good as the likes of Patek. Viewed closely, it is simply not as fine and careful. It is just more flashy. Like an alligator suit.

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post #19236 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


You aren't getting it. They do things that nobody else does, including those priced above them. The screwed chatons are laughable since they mimmic a method of securing jewels that is no longer necessary and which nobody has used in decades. Why? Because Lange today has no genuine heritage. It is a re-imagined company, like Breguet, trying to draw tenuous connections with a distant past. The original Lange never made wristwatches and went defunct before screwed chatons became obsolete. The blued screws are similarly silly.

Moreover, the finishing quality is not as good as the likes of Patek. Viewed closely, it is simply not as fine and careful. It is just more flashy. Like an alligator suit.

Yes, I know Lange, Blancpain, and other companies were closed down for many years and are resurrected brands.  I guess I'm not really offended by companies borrowing from their past.  It's not something exclusively done by Lange.   On some level its a function of marketing adding some romance or flavor to a brand.  With the exception of independents that truly have not been around long enough, most companies have gone back to their past with recent creations.  Rolex...brought back the Milgauss a few years ago after an absence of 25+ years, Patek's 5070 was based in a design that was decades old, VC has an entire collection called Les Historiques, and IWC's Portuguese, Ingenieur, and Pilot watches are all based on the past.  As for functionality, look at the Big Pilot it has its huge size for legibility and gigantic winding crown for use when you wearing a flight suit and gloves.  Interestingly, unlike Breitlings and GMT Masters (both smaller and with normal winding crowns)...I've never seen an actual pilot wearing an IWC BP.  In addition, I'd venture to say no BP owners have ever set their watches while wearing gloves to make good use out of that over sized crown.  So its mostly an exercise in style not function.

 

As for whether Patek's movements are truly superior to Lange's I won't venture there.  It seems to be a heated debate between owners of each brand, and I don't own either.  I can say a few lucky acquaintances of mine that collect, have owned each, have written articles about watches, and have been to the factories.  In summary, they have said their styles are different but among the non-independents they each represent the best of what is available.  I take that for what its worth.  There are some Pateks I'd prefer over Langes and there are some Langes I'd prefer over Pateks. 

post #19237 of 34173
Again, you are missing the point. I don't have a problem with resurrected watch companies. What I'm saying is that the extra embellishment that Lange uses should not be confused for superior finishing. Things like the German silver plates, blued screws, and screwed gold chatons are not commonly used by anybody but Lange. Lange uses them to connect with their pocket watch movements from before the advent of wristwatches (which they never made). Others don't use them because they are outmoded, unnecessary, and were never part of the tradition of making wristwatch movements. As features, they are flashy and easy for a less knowledgeable observer to notice. But they do not reflect better finishing. Patek does not make a lesser finished watch because they neglect to use faux screwed chatons, and neither does IWC.
post #19238 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Are you really going to stand on a "soap box" and say that a more finely decorated movement can be done in less time and is less labor intensive?  Spin it any way you want, its not really credible.  All of the honestly, sparsely decorated movements don't mean very much when there are serious complaints about accuracy, and when much of their production is a sad styling exercise.  I see too many inconsistencies with the brand as a whole to believe in your IWC honesty campaign.  Sorry, but I miss the IWC of 10+ years ago.

 

This.

post #19239 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


NO. Jeezus. How are you getting confused by this? What is more work: a greater amount of poorly executed embellishment, or a lesser amount of better executed embellishment? This is not rocket science and I don't know how to make this more simple to understand.

Quantity of embellishment and quality of embellishment are separate issues. You are conflating the two.

I'm not confused.  Perhaps you have confused your your opinion/taste, for fact.  I understand you believe that Lange's finish is flash, poorly executed, and possible poor quality.  Our disagreement is over the decoration of the Lange.   You don't like it and find it and find it lacking in honesty, and I disagree with you on the quality of their workmanship.  Your question, "What is more work: a greater amount of poorly executed embellishment, or a lesser amount of better executed embellishment?" Only makes sense presuming that I am  in agreement with you that its poorly executed.  I don't agree with you.  If you were in agreement with me, the statement would read more like, "A greater amount of well executed embellishment takes more time than a lesser amount of good embellishment."  Adults can disagree.  As for IWC's lesser amount of (in your opinion) better executed embellishment, it might have some meaning if the accuracy of the movements were not a problem and they weren't going into styling exercises.

 

My intention is not to frustrate you, although based on your condescending tone, I have.  I wish you well but I think we will have to agree to disagree.  

post #19240 of 34173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Again, you are missing the point. I don't have a problem with resurrected watch companies. What I'm saying is that the extra embellishment that Lange uses should not be confused for superior finishing. Things like the German silver plates, blued screws, and screwed gold chatons are not commonly used by anybody but Lange. Lange uses them to connect with their pocket watch movements from before the advent of wristwatches (which they never made). Others don't use them because they are outmoded, unnecessary, and were never part of the tradition of making wristwatch movements. As features, they are flashy and easy for a less knowledgeable observer to notice. But they do not reflect better finishing. Patek does not make a lesser finished watch because they neglect to use faux screwed chatons, and neither does IWC.

No, I am not missing the point.  I get and understand everything you have said.  I've never said that Lange was superior to Patek because of its use German silver plates, blued screws, or gold chatons.  I see it as a different style and I appreciate that it is different.  There are lots of stoic well finished movements from Swiss brands, but I also appreciate that the Langes are different.  You and I seem to disagree on the level of quality of the Lange movements...and I can accept that.  Personally, I find Patek and Lange on par with each other even if you do not.  

 

IWC...I think has a variety of issues that has resulted in me no longer desiring to own anything from their current collections.  

post #19241 of 34173
This discussion started with me pointing out that IWC movement finishing is as good as any other in quality of execution. The difference is in style and amount of embellishment. Lange came up because others use it as a standard for finishing quality, since their movements are so highly embellished. I am clearing up that confusion. The higher degree of embellishment does not make it better finished, or mean it was more labor intensive.
post #19242 of 34173
guys, isnt this supposed to be a pr0n thread?





post #19243 of 34173
Dear Stitchy,

That will be the perfect gift. Thank you for offering it. So kind. I would PM me for my shipping address.
post #19244 of 34173
Dear Fok,

If I was the owner of my company, the watch would have already been shipped to you.
post #19245 of 34173
Beautiful Stitchy.

I lurve it.

I see that our little watch appreciation thread has reached the main page.
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