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post #19186 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by nttdocomo View Post

Does anyone else live in Asia, or Japan? I'm thinking leather straps in 40C heat and humidity might not be a great idea!

 

I don't have to live in Asia or Japan to tell you that you are absolutely correct.

 

But you can get a very nice-looking rubber strap like this one below for an attractive but still functional change of pace:

 

http://www.thewatchboys.com/iwc-style-black-rubber-texture-kevlar-look-with-white-stitch-p-214.html

post #19187 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by nttdocomo View Post

Thank you all for your nice comments about my choice of a speed master as a first watch. I absolutely love watches, but good ones cost a little more of course wink.gif

I'll get a leather strap at some point; maybe a black first.

BTW, it has a nice display back smile.gif

Does anyone else live in Asia, or Japan? I'm thinking leather straps in 40C heat and humidity might not be a great idea!

Heat, humidity, and sweat cause straps to wear out prematurely. So wear the bracelet when its hot & humid and the strap when its a bit cooler and drier.

Or as Roger suggests go with a rubber strap. Maybe you can find something like Blancpain has done leather or croc outside but lined with rubber.
post #19188 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcava View Post

Now I get it. And now I am thinking about it a lot. Seems like if you go with a Stainless model, it's not totally unthinkable to have the enamel-work could get up 70-80% of the cost of the base watch you are applying it to?..

The enamel work on the SS Reversos is not "enamel", it's an epoxy resin (not unlike wood filler, but nicer). That is why it's "baked" at 80C, it's actually cured at that temperature.

While I agree that beautiful work can come out of that process, I am undecided as to whether adorning a watch with coloured plastic is the "best" way to go about customising one's watch. And the cost is just exorbitant for something akin to fancy nail polish - starts at $1-1.5k, and goes up up up depending on complexity. Most prep for the epoxy is machine done as well - you're not getting a fully hand engraved design.

Only gold Reversos can have fired/vitreous/grand feu enamel applied, and JLC will only do it for new gold Reversos - i.e. you have to place the enameling order at the time of purchasing your gold Reverso.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcava View Post

What was the experience like, for anyone who went through the custom design process? I don't think I want something as basic as monogram, or single colored shield, or maps, that are on the JLC build it yourself site.. Come up with artwork and then submit, and they quote you a price? Do you have to have it photo ready? Do you proof it? Is it really around $5-7000 for the custom work?

IME...

Monograms are easy - all JLC boutiques (not multibrand ADs) have font samples. There are 5 or 6 "standard" fonts that JLC offers for monograms, and you can preview them here - http://personalisation.jaeger-lecoultre.com/#/personnalisation?model=2788570&step=3

It's as simple as 1. choosing your Reverso, 2. choosing the font, 3. choosing the layout (horizontal, vertical, diagonal, etc) and 3. placing your order. Engraving a SS Reverso with your initials using the JLC "standard" fonts should cost you less than $1000. Fonts can be further customised with coloured epoxy resin for an additional cost.

If there are engravers in your area, check them out if you are considering something simple as IMO they will offer exactly the same service for a LOT less. JLC also actually subcontracts out simpler engravings to local artists to do, as opposed to all the way to JLC HQ in Le Sentier, then charges a middleman markup. For example, in Singapore all "standard" or "simpler" monograms are sent to Hong Kong to be done.

If you want any other non-standard font for your monogram or a flower, zodiac sign or some other non-text design engraved, JLC charges as though it is a "custom order" which means a higher price bracket. You have to provide a sample, and then wait 6-8 weeks for a quote. In the USA they sometimes refer you straight on to JC Randell (more on him later). If done through JLC, simple monogram engraving will take up to 4-6 months, custom engraving up to 12-18 months.

Enameling a gold Reverso starts at $10+k and escalates very very very quickly. Most are along the line of $20-35k, and the sky is the limit. Most people who ask for such enameling have a period of negotiation with Le Sentier as to what they want and what is actually feasible, and the to/fro takes months to complete. I am pretty sure you also get to review an actual paper draft or rendering of the enamel work before you give the final go ahead.

There is another option for custom engraving-only orders - there are a few Master engravers scattered around the world who will do the same (or better) for less. In the USA the 3d party JLC engraver to go to is JC Randell, who is a 4 hour drive away from you in Washington. IMO the custom Le Sentier engravings are nice, but not as fine as JC Randell's work - by fineness I mean complexity of engraved detail. The deeper the engraving cuts, the less fine the work can be - a JC Randell engraving feels like a freshly minted bank note, a JLC engraving feels like the surface of a vinyl record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcava View Post

What Reverso would you lean to? Kind of like the Grand Reverso Calendar? (I'm also a little ignorant as to which of the Reverso's don't allow customization - other than the duetto's)

All Reversos with solid casebacks (and the one with the small circular 8 day power reserve window) can be engraved. This is something only you, your taste, and your budget can decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nttdocomo View Post

Does anyone else live in Asia, or Japan? I'm thinking leather straps in 40C heat and humidity might not be a great idea!

Yep, there are special leather straps which are sweat resistant but none of them have performed well for me. I usually use a Perlon (woven nylon) strap, and IMO that would suit the Speedmaster.

This is a Perlon strap:



Rubber straps just feel sticky to me, but YMMV.

BTW temperatures in most of SE Asia rarely reach 40C, but it often feels much much much worse due to the humidity!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Thanks Roger. It's one of my favorite watches. IMHO its a watch that shows how simplicity in design can be beautiful and relevant even nearly 100 years after it was introduced.

It's an absolutely fantastic watch, and one that I would be more than proud to own. wink.gif

If I were to get a Tank, it would have to be the ref. W1551551 - I think it is the platinum version of your tank, if yours is the 30x39mm one.
Edited by apropos - 3/22/13 at 8:05pm
post #19189 of 36796
Beautiful movement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nttdocomo View Post

Thank you all for your nice comments about my choice of a speed master as a first watch. I absolutely love watches, but good ones cost a little more of course wink.gif

I'll get a leather strap at some point; maybe a black first.

BTW, it has a nice display back smile.gif

abupavyr.jpg

y2yvajer.jpg

Does anyone else live in Asia, or Japan? I'm thinking leather straps in 40C heat and humidity might not be a great idea!


I think you'll live wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post

I don't have a speedy either.  frown.gif  Had to wear this today too.  wink.gif



Lookin' good, brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

New shoes for the Speedy 9300. Worn on the bracelet since day one, I decided to try it out on a strap. I dug through the strap drawer and found a nice Camille Fournet in semi-glosse black gator, but thought it looked a touch too formal on this sporty watch. So I tried this matte medium brown TWB croc  instead:






That is one handsome, handsome watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Quote:
If you can find someone that is willing to part with there Collection Privee Cartier Tank XL (although I am biased) thats a watch I would try to track down.  Its an icon.  There maybe be several Tank style watches, but its a signature piece from Cartier which they first introduced around 1917.  They made 200 in rose and 50 in platinum.  The base movement is a Piaget, finished to Cartier's own standards, and its rectangular (most companies stuff a smaller round movement in a rectangular case because its less expensive to use in the long run as it can be used in round pieces also).  Whether someone would be willing to sell theirs to you for $10K...I don't know.  The few others I know that own them, love them and aren't parting with them.  Still no harm in looking/asking.  There are some other variations on Tanks from Cartier that are also quite nice...and you may be able to get for less as there are many more of them out there like the Tank Americaine.   The Tank Chinoise from Cartier is also a cool design, a tad smaller but very handsome...its a bit more square than rectangular.

Here are a few photos of mine.
Best regards,
Dino

P. S. Also if you're just looking for rectangular watch and not necessarily a Tank the JLC Reverso offers many great options.



1000



post #19190 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

That is one handsome, handsome watch.

Thanks rnguy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post


The enamel work on the SS Reversos is not "enamel", it's an epoxy resin (not unlike wood filler, but nicer). That is why it's "baked" at 80C, it's actually cured at that temperature.

While I agree that beautiful work can come out of that process, I am undecided as to whether adorning a watch with coloured plastic is the "best" way to go about customising one's watch. And the cost is just exorbitant for something akin to fancy nail polish - starts at $1-1.5k, and goes up up up depending on complexity. Most prep for the epoxy is machine done as well - you're not getting a fully hand engraved design. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Only gold Reversos can have fired/vitreous/grand feu enamel applied, and JLC will only do it for new gold Reversos - i.e. you have to place the enameling order at the time of purchasing your gold Reverso.


IME...

Monograms are easy - all JLC boutiques (not multibrand ADs) have font samples. There are 5 or 6 "standard" fonts that JLC offers for monograms, and you can preview them here - http://personalisation.jaeger-lecoultre.com/#/personnalisation?model=2788570&step=3

It's as simple as 1. choosing your Reverso, 2. choosing the font, 3. choosing the layout (horizontal, vertical, diagonal, etc) and 3. placing your order. Engraving a SS Reverso with your initials using the JLC "standard" fonts should cost you less than $1000. Fonts can be further customised with coloured epoxy resin for an additional cost.

If there are engravers in your area, check them out if you are considering something simple as IMO they will offer exactly the same service for a LOT less. JLC also actually subcontracts out simpler engravings to local artists to do, as opposed to all the way to JLC HQ in Le Sentier, then charges a middleman markup. For example, in Singapore all "standard" or "simpler" monograms are sent to Hong Kong to be done.

If you want any other non-standard font for your monogram or a flower, zodiac sign or some other non-text design engraved, JLC charges as though it is a "custom order" which means a higher price bracket. You have to provide a sample, and then wait 6-8 weeks for a quote. In the USA they sometimes refer you straight on to JC Randell (more on him later). If done through JLC, simple monogram engraving will take up to 4-6 months, custom engraving up to 12-18 months.

Enameling a gold Reverso starts at $10+k and escalates very very very quickly. Most are along the line of $20-35k, and the sky is the limit. Most people who ask for such enameling have a period of negotiation with Le Sentier as to what they want and what is actually feasible, and the to/fro takes months to complete. I am pretty sure you also get to review an actual paper draft or rendering of the enamel work before you give the final go ahead.

 

There is another option for custom engraving-only orders - there are a few Master engravers scattered around the world who will do the same (or better) for less. In the USA the 3d party JLC engraver to go to is JC Randell, who is a 4 hour drive away from you in Washington. IMO the custom Le Sentier engravings are nice, but not as fine as JC Randell's work - by fineness I mean complexity of engraved detail. The deeper the engraving cuts, the less fine the work can be - a JC Randell engraving feels like a freshly minted bank note, a JLC engraving feels like the surface of a vinyl record.
All Reversos with solid casebacks (and the one with the small circular 8 day power reserve window) can be engraved. This is something only you, your taste, and your budget can decide.




It's an absolutely fantastic watch, and one that I would be more than proud to own. wink.gif

If I were to get a Tank, it would have to be the ref. W1551551 - I think it is the platinum version of your tank, if yours is the 30x39mm one.

 

Hi Apropos, excellent information about customizing a JLC.  Although, I'm not a "Reverso e-buddy" yet, I hope to be at some point.  cheers.gif    I have looked at JC Randell's site a few times just to get an idea of what can be done with a Reverso.  I was unaware that the "Enamel/ coloring" of a SS Reverso is basically plastic.  Also, I had no idea what the starting cost was to have an enamel piece although I knew the prices skyrocket depending on the complexity of the request.  

 

Also, interesting to note that you find the JC Randell engraving to be of higher quality than a custom Le Sentier engraving.  I know a guy that has a US 1931 Tribute and he is planning to send it to Le Sentier for engraving (as he is saying why send it to a 3rd party).  However, Randell has a reputation that would seem difficult to match, much less surpass. You can really see a lot of depth and workmanship from the samples on his site, while I can't say I've seen many samples from JLC and the few I saw were not very complex.

 

Yes, W1551551 is the platinum version of my Tank.  I saw the platinum and the rose gold side by side in a Cartier boutique when they first were released.  The platinum version was beautiful and it really takes on a very different character.  It was very cool and sleek, yet elegant in a white metal, while the rose added some warmth.  In the end, for me in terms of color, cost, and availability, the rose was the right choice...and actually was the only choice at that point.  The one I purchased was the last new version available in North America (my nearest boutique had sold their example almost a year before I decided to get one, and showed me on their computer only 1 unsold example existed, which they eventually had transferred in for me to view).  

 

I tend to choose non-round rose gold cases for dress watches as most of my daily wearers are round and white metal, so I like something completely different.  After wearing round cased white metal watches much of the week, putting on something in rose gold feels a little dressier to me...kind of like switching from casual shoes to fine dress shoes.  I think the only non-round white metal watch I've looked at and tried on is the Reverso.  Some of their examples have looked good in rose or yellow, but for some reason its a design I often find much more appealing in a white metal. 

post #19191 of 36796
Apropos - Thanks so much for the detail.. I am always amazed at the knowledge base on Style-forum, and your response is in the upper echelon..

So, with the preface that a gold Reverso with another $20k of custom enameling is out of my price range, and the coloring on the stainless steel models doesn't measure up, you're preference with a stainless model is to stick to engraving and then depending on the level of detail/customization, look at JC Randell as an alternative to JLC's process. Sounds like if its non standard and engraved with JLC not only pricing but time frame is issue to consider, (not that I'm rushing into this)..

Again, great info. Thank you..
post #19192 of 36796
I know that there are some hard-core people on here with very specific definitions in regards to this next question..

JLC Reverso - 'Dress' watch?? (yay or nay?)
post #19193 of 36796

I'd say most Reversos meet my definition of a dress watch, and would look FAR better with a suit than the great proliferation of big clunky sports watches weighing down the wrists of business professionals.  The Reverso defines the last vestiges of classic JLC design, now that the company has made a strong committment to the special forces / black ops / covert incursion / badass mall-ninja design ethos.

post #19194 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Quote:
If you can find someone that is willing to part with there Collection Privee Cartier Tank XL (although I am biased) thats a watch I would try to track down.  Its an icon.  There maybe be several Tank style watches, but its a signature piece from Cartier which they first introduced around 1917.  They made 200 in rose and 50 in platinum.  The base movement is a Piaget, finished to Cartier's own standards, and its rectangular (most companies stuff a smaller round movement in a rectangular case because its less expensive to use in the long run as it can be used in round pieces also).  Whether someone would be willing to sell theirs to you for $10K...I don't know.  The few others I know that own them, love them and aren't parting with them.  Still no harm in looking/asking.  There are some other variations on Tanks from Cartier that are also quite nice...and you may be able to get for less as there are many more of them out there like the Tank Americaine.   The Tank Chinoise from Cartier is also a cool design, a tad smaller but very handsome...its a bit more square than rectangular.

Here are a few photos of mine.
Best regards,
Dino

P. S. Also if you're just looking for rectangular watch and not necessarily a Tank the JLC Reverso offers many great options.



1000


Wow, that totally floored me. Amazing watch, I've never seen one that beautiful.

post #19195 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

I'd say most Reversos meet my definition of a dress watch, and would look FAR better with a suit than the great proliferation of big clunky sports watches weighing down the wrists of business professionals.  The Reverso defines the last vestiges of classic JLC design, now that the company has made a strong committment to the special forces / black ops / covert incursion / badass mall-ninja design ethos.

I think at best this is a really bizarre comment to make, and the very last bit is an over generalisation that crosses into pure bizarro territory. snork[1].gif

I assume you are referring to the Master Compressor line. Look at all the models JLC has released over the last 2 years - not a single Master Compressor model. The best received new model of 2012 was the Rouge, the best of 2013 probably the new Master Perpetual or the Jubile - all 3 are dress watches; not exactly a marked change of direction for JLC into he-man territory.

The Master series has a long history, the Atmos even longer, invalidating your point about the Reverso range representing "the last vestiges of classic JLC design", and think about all the tribute models JLC has released over the last decade - the polaris 65, the polaris 68, the deep sea, the deep sea chronograph, the 1931 reverso, memovox, the upcoming "true" geophysic, etc

True, the JLC-Navy Seals watches are regrettable collaborations at best, but I would hardly call 2 models in total out of nearly a 100 mens watches in the entire JLC oeuvre "a strong committment to the special forces / black ops / covert incursion / badass mall-ninja design ethos".

Perhaps you might have confused JLC with IWC? Now that is a once storied watch company that is fast headed toward Omega territory - just look at their new releases this year for their Ingenuier line. Pathetic, sad, stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcava View Post

I know that there are some hard-core people on here with very specific definitions in regards to this next question..

JLC Reverso - 'Dress' watch?? (yay or nay?)

Depends on the Reverso. Reverso Squadra? No. Reverso Classic? Maybe. Reverso GT? Likely. Reverso Tribute in SS? Not exactly. Reverso Tribute in PG? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcava View Post

Apropos - Thanks so much for the detail.. I am always amazed at the knowledge base on Style-forum, and your response is in the upper echelon..

So, with the preface that a gold Reverso with another $20k of custom enameling is out of my price range, and the coloring on the stainless steel models doesn't measure up, you're preference with a stainless model is to stick to engraving and then depending on the level of detail/customization, look at JC Randell as an alternative to JLC's process. Sounds like if its non standard and engraved with JLC not only pricing but time frame is issue to consider, (not that I'm rushing into this)..

Again, great info. Thank you..

You are most welcome.

As to your question - yes, more or less.

I can only speak for myself when I say that sometimes less is more and that I would much rather have a superbly executed monochrome engraving than an impressively colourful machine engraving on a Reverso.

And when you think about it, it's not often that a customisation can elevate a humble/humbler watch (like say an entry level SS Reverso Classic) to the next level. And that there are very few examples of truly world class pure artisanal craft that you can access for less than $2000, and then pass it on to your kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hi Apropos, excellent information about customizing a JLC.  Although, I'm not a "Reverso e-buddy" yet, I hope to be at some point.  cheers.gif
    I have looked at JC Randell's site a few times just to get an idea of what can be done with a Reverso.  I was unaware that the "Enamel/ coloring" of a SS Reverso is basically plastic.  Also, I had no idea what the starting cost was to have an enamel piece although I knew the prices skyrocket depending on the complexity of the request.  

Also, interesting to note that you find the JC Randell engraving to be of higher quality than a custom Le Sentier engraving.  I know a guy that has a US 1931 Tribute and he is planning to send it to 
Le Sentier for engraving (as he is saying why send it to a 3rd party).  However, Randell has a reputation that would seem difficult to match, much less surpass. You can really see a lot of depth and workmanship from the samples on his site, while I can't say I've seen many samples from JLC and the few I saw were not very complex.

That is just my opinion, and I would encourage everyone to see examples in the flesh (metal) and judge for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I tend to choose non-round rose gold cases for dress watches as most of my daily wearers are round and white metal, so I like something completely different.  After wearing round cased white metal watches much of the week, putting on something in rose gold feels a little dressier to me...kind of like switching from casual shoes to fine dress shoes.  I think the only non-round white metal watch I've looked at and tried on is the Reverso.  Some of their examples have looked good in rose or yellow, but for some reason its a design I often find much more appealing in a white metal. 

Makes perfect sense. As usual. smile.gif
Edited by apropos - 3/23/13 at 10:58am
post #19196 of 36796
Quote:
Perhaps you might have confused JLC with IWC? Now that is a once storied watch company that is fast headed toward Omega territory.

Yes, dead-on. However, as disappointed as I have been with IWC's design direction over the past seven or eight years, I think it's bit harsh characterizing them as headed in the direction of Omega. While the aesthetics have suffered, losing authenticity and becoming far more consumer trend oriented, they have put a lot of work into their in-house movements. Mechanically, they are still far superior to Omega. The finishing is not in the frou-frou Geneva style typical of Patek, Vacheron, and the like, but it is just as fine in its own Germanic way, and generally much better than JLC, which is more of bargain version of the aforementioned style.

Still, the watches are generally ugly. Every watch since my Portuguese 5001, which I consider a high water mark, has been a big fail. The bastardization of the pilot line is particularly egregious--in particular the Bell & Ross-ification of the Mark series and the creation of the Top Gun doppelchronograph. If we could go back to 2004/2005 IWC aesthetics with their current movements, it would be glorious.
post #19197 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Yes, dead-on. However, as disappointed as I have been with IWC's design direction over the past seven or eight years, I think it's bit harsh characterizing them as headed in the direction of Omega. While the aesthetics have suffered, become much less authentic and consumer trend oriented, they have put a lot of work into their in-house movements. Mechanically, they are still superior watches by far. The finishing is not in the frou-frou Geneva style typical of Patek, Vacheron, and the like, but it is just as fine in its own way, and generally much better than JLC, which is more of bargain version of the aforementioned style.

Still, the watches are generally ugly. Every watch since my Portuguese 5001, which I consider a high water mark, has been a big fail. The bastardization of the pilot line is particularly egregious--in particular the Bell & Ross-ification of the Mark series and the creation of the Top Gun doppelchronograph. If we could go back to 2004/2005 IWC aesthetics with their current movements, it would be glorious.

I agree with the second part, but for the first part I think that comparing the finishing style for PP/VC/JLC vs IWC is comparing creatures which are so different that only the broadest, vaguest and thus least useful comparisons can be made. I think it is more instructive to compare like with like, and agree with your point about the movement finishing at JLC being of a somewhat lesser standard in general than PP/VC. To be fair though I don't think JLC has ever attempted to proffer their finishing as a strength, nor have a majority (or even significant minority) of WISes ever acknowledged it to be such.

There was this interesting interview with the IWC CEO I read recently in some watch magazine where he made a comment - something along the lines of the "cool watch" of yesterday is the "asshole watch" of today, so IWC would avoid caving to trends. Or something like that. I couldn't help but wince at the complete lack of self knowledge. I don't think I've seen a watch company so fully and systematically self destruct each major line of watches that it carries, but I guess IWC is German so even their disasters are thorough and well engineered.

I also really really dislike the "watches for men" tagline that nearly all the IWC ad copy has taken up recently - oddly enough men attracted to 46mm "watches for men" tend overwhelmingly to actually be... pricks.
post #19198 of 36796
The "watches for men" tagline has been around since at least 2004. It was actually quite controversial at the time. I happen to like it, as it captures the right spirit of a serious tool watch by being direct and to the point.

Of course the finishing is of a different animal, versus the Geneva school, but I've seen comparisons and read analysis by experts. My eyeballs also did their own homework. The consensus seems to be that the quality and precision of the finishing is as good as anything else out there, but is distinctively more "engineered" in appearance. Thus, you will see no beveled edges, but the perlage and cotes de Geneve are as fine as can be. JLC finishing is not as nice, though an undiscerning eye would be forgiven for believing it to be fancier.

For an interesting reference, Lange finishing was taught to the newly re-birthed company by IWC watchmakers. Decoration can be more or less lavish, but quality of execution is a separate matter. IWC could do what Lange does, but it would be the wrong style for the watches they make.
post #19199 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post


I think at best this is a really bizarre comment to make, and the very last bit is an over generalisation that crosses into pure bizarro territory. snork[1].gif

 

 Well you would know about pure bizzaro territory, that much is certain.

post #19200 of 36796
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post


Lookin' good, brother.

 

Thank you my man.  When I get around to having a black strap made up I'll post up that combo as well.  So far I find I'm liking the watch better on a strap than on the bracelet - can't believe it took me a year to give it a try.  The case shape seems to stand out more without the end links from the bracelet wedged between the lugs.

 

Coldcava - was there a particular Reverso you were considering, and did you want it to fill a dress watch role?

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