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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1258

post #18856 of 33498
I appreciate your reply - clearly a very well thought out and rational explanation. It's obvious you have a great appreciation for watches and we actually probably agree way more than we disagree.

For the record I'm not a fan per se of homages. I would also personally rather buy something authentic and true to its own manufacture rather than having a copy of another model. In fact, I've always convinced a particular friend to not buy homages or fakes and save up for the real thing because I know in the end he will otherwise regret his purchase, but that's only because I know it's within his means and he does actually appreciate watch manufacturers in general. But he does have the means and the ability to appreciate certain brands. Many people do not.

Case in point, I too would rather look at Fortis, Oris and Damasko etc.. over a Kingston, but that's because I enjoy watches and know a little about them and take pride in knowing I have something original on my wrist that I've chosen. However there are many out there that want that Submariner or "X" look without the price tag. Heck, there are some that may even like the MKII aesthetic more than the Rolex branded orginal - who knows? Some have no interest in looking for alternatives either because they're not really into the whole watch culture, are too stubborn to give up on their aesthetic preference, or are just too damn lazy to look.. again who knows? Even though I wouldn't buy an Invicta diver, there are plenty of people out there who love em for what they are - a Rolex clone, without the Rolex tag. It's not my preference but that's not really what we're talking about..

I agree with you about these companies that really are just borrowing another brand's prestige, and we're talking about homages here and not fakes, I just feel there's something inherently wrong with the notion that if someone can't or won't afford a Submariner than they're wrong to buy a MKII or an Invicta. If it was so wrong, and I'm sure it's not for Rolex' lack of legal trying, these homages wouldn't be able to be procured legally as they are now. But that's another debate.

If luxury goods were restricted so consumers could only buy the "original", then think about this as it pertains to electronics alone - we'd have far fewer TV/Smartphone/computers from far fewer companies that have basically retread the same design in smaller and cheaper cases with cheaper parts etc.. By your theory, no one should be allowed to buy a Vizio when originally Vizio was blatantly copying Sony and Samsung's LCD and Plasma models (when Vizio first came out..), and everyone should thus be forced to have a Samsung or Sony, or live without an LCD..

I have no delusions - these homages are indeed cheaper copies of the real thing. Whether they're truly there to pay 'homage' or just cashing in is probably somewhere in between although again that's subject for another debate. The fact they exist for people to own a particular timepiece look if they so choose is fine with me. On the street I'll know that he's wearing a Panerai Homage and not the real thing, and so will he.

alright NOW I've feel like I've beaten this horse enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

I understand your point.

But when you think about it there are literally zillions of non-homage watches out there that are affordable and genuinely interesting - so why do people still go for homages? The elephant in the room is the borrowed prestige of the original watch.

That Kingston which RogerP likes was 1100 GBP - which is well into the territory inhabited by interesting companies like Fortis, Oris, Baume et Mercier, Damasko, Stowa, etc. If you went vintage you could pick up a spectacular Omega Constellation "pie pan" or Universal Geneve Bicompax for that price, and have enough left over to service the watch too. Second hand non-vintage would get you a Nomos or maybe a Tudor.

So really... there is no excuse.

Homages offend me on an intellectual and aesthetic level. They're lazy unimaginative solutions released by lazy unimaginative companies eager to make a quick buck by standing on the shoulders of giants. The term "homage" itself is the basest form of PR triumph, pure marketing doublespeak.

The homage buyer pays for the privilege of an unregulated and completely unfinished or minimally finished ebauche in a cheap steel case that will be finished in a ho-hum way and without a shadow of doubt be a pale imitation of the original. I can guarantee you your homage company would have gone bust in 20 years because they are simply not there for the long haul and their business model depends mostly on the goodwill of cheapskates... who are a fickle bunch and will move on to the next homage company that sells the same thing or close enough for $30 less.

Given their very existence is a sort of common-sense defying anachronism when you really think about it, I don't believe in too many half measures when it comes to little luxuries like mechanical watches - and homages are a half measure too far for me, the "Gacci", "Chenel" or "Luis Vuitton" bags of the watch world. Would you let your wife carry one of those?

I guess there are those homage lovers who will call me a watch snob, but I'm happy to be one if it means that I am passionate about something actually worth preserving, something with deep roots in tradition and skill... unlike the homage anti-snob who too often is happy to hoist the banner of faux egalitarianism. Just drop by any of the homage forums... you'll see what I mean.
:biggrin.gif
post #18857 of 33498

Newcomer - thanks for that candid take on the Damasko.  Yes, it's all tool and no flash whatsoever.  Of course, there are more than a few Sinn models that could be fairly described in those same terms.  In the Damasko range, I am more drawn to the models with a white luminous dial and black printing.

post #18858 of 33498
RogerP and Newcomer - I have to agree with you guys. I had a SINN SDR, and while it should've pressed all the right buttons, in the end I sold it because I never quite warmed up to it. It worked well, was the right size, had a clean dial, and was tough as nails but just didn't have that spark for me.

Sinn


on a side note, I really like this one for a dressier option at a good price point..

(taken from watchbuys website)

Photobucket
post #18859 of 33498

Yep - Sinn does offer a more diverse range, as those two pics demonstrate.

post #18860 of 33498
i have never been a huge sinn, fran. they always strike me as neat, but not something i ever really had the urge to kop. no hate.
post #18861 of 33498
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Newcomer - thanks for that candid take on the Damasko.  Yes, it's all tool and no flash whatsoever.  Of course, there are more than a few Sinn models that could be fairly described in those same terms.  In the Damasko range, I am more drawn to the models with a white luminous dial and black printing.

All tool and no flash make Newcomer a dull boy! And surprisingly, I actually prefer the white dialed brethren as well. I think Damasko does a white dialed pilot very nicely. I think I would prefer the DA36 or DA46, due to the yellow second hand though. Add a little bit of panache!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

...

I had the same experience. Very funny! I think that my Speedy is a better executed version of what I wanted in a tool watch. There is no denying the Speedmaster's tool heritage, but it has just enough interest--the bevelled lugs, contrast of brushed and finished features, the tachymetre--to keep you interested, while still being restrained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

i have never been a huge sinn, fran. they always strike me as neat, but not something i ever really had the urge to kop. no hate.

I completely understand. I think your tastes are similar to mine, and the German tool watches are VERY restrained. Almost painfully so at times.

I do like these though:


post #18862 of 33498

I love the Sinn 103 chrono, but as a Speedy Pro owner, ima sadly have to pass on it--I think you can relate Newcomer.

post #18863 of 33498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post


All tool and no flash make Newcomer a dull boy! And surprisingly, I actually prefer the white dialed brethren as well. I think Damasko does a white dialed pilot very nicely. I think I would prefer the DA36 or DA46, due to the yellow second hand though. Add a little bit of panache!
I had the same experience. Very funny! I think that my Speedy is a better executed version of what I wanted in a tool watch. There is no denying the Speedmaster's tool heritage, but it has just enough interest--the bevelled lugs, contrast of brushed and finished features, the tachymetre--to keep you interested, while still being restrained.
I completely understand. I think your tastes are similar to mine, and the German tool watches are VERY restrained. Almost painfully so at times.

I do like these though:


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


 

These are more to my liking.

 

The first one more than the second though.

post #18864 of 33498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hey, I just got back from FL, and saw the good news.  Congrats and enjoy it.  Its a beauty!

Thank you very much! Hope Florida treated you well! I am enjoying it right now, actually!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

I love the Sinn 103 chrono, but as a Speedy Pro owner, ima sadly have to pass on it--I think you can relate Newcomer.

Oh absolutely. And unfortunately, at that price range, I really think it is in direct competition for the Speedmaster. Unfortunate because I do not think I would ever recommend the Sinn before the Speedmaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

These are more to my liking.

The first one more than the second though.

Yeah, the second one is a bit of an odd ball. I would not mind picking up a Sinn 356 Flieger, but once again, I think I could become bored with it. The acrylic is very cool though, and I think it would be fun on a black NATO as just the ultimate tool watch. It is a nice alternative to the IWC fliegerchrono.
post #18865 of 33498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

I completely understand. I think your tastes are similar to mine, and the German tool watches are VERY restrained. Almost painfully so at times.
I do like these though: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


i think our tastes are indeed similar.

see, i like those 2, but i dont think there is enough about them that makes me say, yes, i want THAT! they often seem, as you said, too restrained, and they sometimes look like a sinn version of another watch. again, no hate to sinn, they just dont grab me.
post #18866 of 33498
Sinn has put themselves in a never consider price range for me. The ones that interest me, there are much better options for not much more. And for the rest, I think there are better value watches out there. But there are plenty people who love them, and who am I to argue with personal attachments.
post #18867 of 33498
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLJr View Post

Sinn has put themselves in a never consider price range for me. The ones that interest me, there are much better options for not much more. And for the rest, I think there are better value watches out there. But there are plenty people who love them, and who am I to argue with personal attachments.

agree fully.
post #18868 of 33498

So I visited Michael Safdie's shop today, partly because it was conveniently located around the corner from my tailor:

 

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/video-introducing-madison-fine-time-new-yorks

 

Very fine collection of rare pieces. I even got to handle a 5004, check out a 5970 with a 5004 dial, view a 3970P with a very rare black dial with silver baton markers. Before I came Michael was on the phone with a collector who was paying north of $300K for a 2499.  While I was there, as if on cue, the president of Patek Philippe USA walked in as he "was just passing by the neighborhood and wanted to say hello."  

 

Very passionate gentleman and certainly an impressive collection.  Highly recommended as a stop in NYC for watch collectors who want to check out some very rare Pateks.  I think it says something about my extreme satisfaction with my recent 3970J purchase that I wasn't tempted to get any other piece while I was there. Either that, or my rather slim bank account. biggrin.gif

post #18869 of 33498
^ I saw that video when it first came out, and was absolutely blown away.

Now to start digging for oil in my backyard. Wish me luck.
post #18870 of 33498

This is my Breitling Superocean, it is a limited edition, 1.000 pieces

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