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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1216

post #18226 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

 

Oyes, I don't even own a safe.

 

 

So, er, where is it you live again?   And, um, I was thinking, what kind of domestic alarm systems does everyone use?  devil.gif

 

Haha.  It looks even better out in the wild, Frilly.  Absolutely beautiful.  It actually makes me smile to look at it! 

post #18227 of 39182

Interesting article today about Swatch.

post #18228 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

Dino - I'm not sure we're on the same page on clothes and shoes. I appreciate bespoke suits and fine shoes to the extent that they function better than their downscale counterparts, generally either by doing more to improve my appearance or comfort or by lasting longer. That's not to say finishing is unimportant just because it's imperceptible to a layman. I appreciate the appearance of fine pickstitching or handsewn buttonholes or well designed interior pockets even though they contribute only marginally to the primary functions of the garment. Still, I would evaluate each of those on their merits - how well they achieve what they set out to do - rather than considerations of rarity, provenance, exclusivity, etc. or that they reflect "care" or "effort". I acknowledge that in many areas of the luxury goods market, reasonable people put a premium on artisanal workmanship. I guess it's just an idiosyncratic blind spot for me, as personally I would make no distinction in value between two functionally equivalent items (at least standardized, unlimited production, utilitarian objects, i.e. not art) just because one was produced by an esteemed artisan's hand and the other in a factory.

On watches, I have as much appreciation for anyone for movement engineering insofar as the purpose is to somehow improve functionality on the watch, as noted earlier, in areas such as accuracy, reliability, dial configuration, case proportions, and complications.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, you're appearing to disagree but you're nearly in complete agreement with him.

Take the example of the suit. It is an item that follows restrictions handed down by tradition, not unlike a mechanical watch. Your pick stitching and nice buttons are analogous to perlage in the sense that their value lies in the additional effort that their presence implies.

Within the restrictions of what a suit is, a well made and fitted bespoke one will always beat a mass produced rtw one. Within the restrictions of what a mechanical watch is, a piece from the leading marques will always beat a Seagull or Christopher Ward. Same logic.

The problem is that some people compare mechanical watches with quartz watches because they adopt the imo simplistic approach of thinking that a mechanical watch is merely all about timekeeping, which it isn't. It's like saying wearing a parka is better than wearing a suit because it covers your nakedness better. Or running shoes are superior to dress shoes because they are more comfortable. Completely ridiculous, of course.

Then there are others who are seduced by a pretty dial and who forget or choose to ignore that innovation in movement design is of course an important part of the equation. A select few, like Thatguy, take it a step further and try their best to equate their literally skin deep appreciation of watches to some purposeful noble philosophical depth that is really only envy and class warfare by another name.

Thus within the limitations of what defines a mechanical watch (and so separates a good mechanical watch from a poor one... which BTW includes care/effort in making) I am absolutely comfortable in saying that objectively my JLC is better than your Tag Heuer or IWC but worse than your patek.

By all means buy what you like regardless of its "merit", I certainly still do. Like I said before it's an emotional hobby. But I still think it's always useful to have at the back of your mind a sort of objective scale to temper your impulses, lest today's infatuation becomes tomorrow's flip! smile.gif
Edited by apropos - 2/21/13 at 7:16am
post #18229 of 39182
I enjoy the discussion, but I try to refrain to analyze my own collector psyche too closely. Not sure I'd like what I find patch[1].gif

I'm pretty sure I'm more moved by the need for peer recognition than I would like to admit. I have always tried to buy what I like, watches that make me smile. Be it ETAs in a pretty case or in-house movements with pedegree. The problem is that my preferences seem to be fickle and easily changed as I read and learn.
post #18230 of 39182
Congrats no frills on a stunning watch! This would be the end game for me if I had one.
post #18231 of 39182
Also, I congratulated Frills, but great pictures Stitch! You make that Panerai look absolutely delicious. I am going to be sure to not post any of my own watches for at least 10 pages smile.gif.
post #18232 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Thanks, Keith T and other SF members.  Oyes, I don't even own a safe.

please tell me they are insured, or that you are POSITIVE they are covered under your homeowners policy in full.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

Also, I congratulated Frills, but great pictures Stitch! You make that Panerai look absolutely delicious. I am going to be sure to not post any of my own watches for at least 10 pages smile.gif.

shog[1].gif thanks, man! i appreciate you saying that.

but you can still post pics. or like i offered frills, send them to me and i will take pics for you. devil.gif
post #18233 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


lol, maybe that will be my next prop. btw, i think that pic is my fave of the group.
thanks!

what area is that? feel free to PM me if you like. though i always stay home and have purim with my family, ya nevah know.

I'm in RI...so east coast and a few states north of you.  Yea...I don't usually travel for Purim either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post


do they travel well? can i kop via PM???

I don't think they travel well, but if you show up in costume  wink.gif you are more than welcome to have your fill of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


i could not imagine buying a watch a not wearing it. would be physically painful.

+1 

I'd probably go through new watch withdrawl symptoms...which I hear can only cured by wearing the watch or purchaseing another. 

post #18234 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

I'm pretty sure I'm more moved by the need for peer recognition than I would like to admit. I have always tried to buy what I like, watches that make me smile. Be it ETAs in a pretty case or in-house movements with pedegree. The problem is that my preferences seem to be fickle and easily changed as I read and learn.

 

I buy what I like, but I have generally avoided watches with ETA movements.  ETA makes good reliable products.  However, I have trouble getting past the feeling that if I buy something with an ETA movement, I am buying a case to hold a movement often found in far less expensive watches. Yes, the finish and case might be better if its in a $5,500 ETA powered watch vs a $2,000 ETA powered watch...but it would still bother me.  Thats just my own issue with ETA movements, but I respect that different watches fit different needs and tastes, and even if a watch isn't for me it doesn't mean its not a good choice for someone else.  There are still a few older ETA powered IWCs I might like to own someday if I ever get over my aversion to ETA movements.

post #18235 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I'm in RI...so east coast and a few states north of you.  Yea...I don't usually travel for Purim either.

ah, well, a freilechen purim! hopefully we can get together one of these days!
Quote:
I'd probably go through new watch withdrawl symptoms...which I hear can only cured by wearing the watch or purchaseing another.

nod[1].gif
post #18236 of 39182

My recent pickup!

RGM Equation of Time model 22

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

 

post #18237 of 39182
i REALLY like that.
post #18238 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by MZhammer View Post

My recent pickup!

RGM Equation of Time model 22

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

Congrats!  Nice choice, I'm sure you will enjoy it.

post #18239 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Agreed- we may be on slightly differnt pages with regard to clothing/shoes.  I think you have taken my clothing example perhaps too litterally, and perhaps with clothing you are more of a sensible, functional person.   No problem.  My point was there are always less expensive alternatives, so why do people spend top dollar for luxury goods? You may do so if it fits your functional untility requirement, but many people I know do it because of an item's beauty, the emotional appeal (as suggested by Keith), the finish and workmanship, the fact that its something you won't see on everyone else (I've heard plenty of Rolex haters say they avoid them because everyone has one), or on some items like a watch, a car, etc it could be its rarity or exclusivity.  For many people the purchase of a fine watch is something that goes far beyond its utiltiy.  As for use of the word rarity, I used it because I was also speaking of watches, but I agree rarity isn't an issue that comes into play with my clothing.   

Yes, I saw your earlier statement.  However, there is a difference between movement engineering and the finish on a movement.  A company can develop new movement and have an adequate finish, but not necessarily an exceptional finish.   In addition, once a watch is in a certain price range, shouldn't one be able to expect that the movement will be very nicely finished, even if its not a necessity?  Although you bring up movement engineering relative to dial configuration and case proportions, today movement engineering sadly doesn't come into play very often with regard to dial configuration or case proportions.  With the huge watch trend we have seen lots of companies, including some top brands, sticking existing smaller movements into larger cases, which often results in date windows moving inward and complications shifting toward the center of the watch, watch proportions sometimes becoming clunky, and giving one a sense that the main change on the watch was stylistic rather than functional. 

I appreciate your point of view...I just think there is room for beauty and workmanship in addition to utility.

Thanks for elaborating on your views on movements Dino. On the question of quartz, a results-oriented view on movements doesn't require one to prefer quartz watches. Just because one doesn't place much value on the artisanal craftsmanship aspect of watchmaking doesn't mean he can't appreciate the solution of interesting problems within clearly defined parameters that is the basis of the mechanical watchmaking enterprise.

Personally I aspire to a pragmatic and results-oriented (forward-thinking?) approach to both clothes tailoring and watch movements, so tend to be less impressed by endeavors to complicate either for the sake of exclusivity or symbolizing labor/effort, neither of which have much value to me. That's not to discount the value of aesthetics and ornamentation - I of course recognize that a certain amount of pleasure can come when one looks at the display back of his watch from time to time. Likewise I'm not advocating a formulaic calculation for evaluating watches (x, y, z potential points for movement, dial, case, etc.) - clearly our favorite watches are the ones that appeal intuitively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So a red box arrived today.  Guess what was inside?





It sure looks good from the front!





But it also looks crazy sexy from the back!





But what does it look like on my wrist?





I couldn't very well get myself a 3970J without getting my wife a little something.





All in all, it's been a fun week hunting down these pieces.  This will most assuredly be my endgame watch, because my bank account for discretionary spending sums up to this:





Hope you enjoyed the pics!  Thanks as always for everyone's support in answering questions, weighing in on aesthetics and functionality, and enabling (as mimo put it so well) this emotional experience of mine/ours.......

Outstanding piece, pure class. Many congrats!
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, you're appearing to disagree but you're nearly in complete agreement with him.

Take the example of the suit. It is an item that follows restrictions handed down by tradition, not unlike a mechanical watch. Your pick stitching and nice buttons are analogous to perlage in the sense that their value lies in the additional effort that their presence implies.

Within the restrictions of what a suit is, a well made and fitted bespoke one will always beat a mass produced rtw one. Within the restrictions of what a mechanical watch is, a piece from the leading marques will always beat a Seagull or Christopher Ward. Same logic.

The problem is that some people compare mechanical watches with quartz watches because they adopt the imo simplistic approach of thinking that a mechanical watch is merely all about timekeeping, which it isn't. It's like saying wearing a parka is better than wearing a suit because it covers your nakedness better. Or running shoes are superior to dress shoes because they are more comfortable. Completely ridiculous, of course.

Then there are others who are seduced by a pretty dial and who forget or choose to ignore that innovation in movement design is of course an important part of the equation. A select few, like Thatguy, take it a step further and try their best to equate their literally skin deep appreciation of watches to some purposeful noble philosophical depth that is really only envy and class warfare by another name.

Thus within the limitations of what defines a mechanical watch (and so separates a good mechanical watch from a poor one... which BTW includes care/effort in making) I am absolutely comfortable in saying that objectively my JLC is better than your Tag Heuer or IWC but worse than your patek.

By all means buy what you like regardless of its "merit", I certainly still do. Like I said before it's an emotional hobby. But I still think it's always useful to have at the back of your mind a sort of objective scale to temper your impulses, lest today's infatuation becomes tomorrow's flip! smile.gif

Respectfully I think you've misunderstood the topic I'm discussing with Dino. I'm defending a functionalist/pragmatist criteria for evaluating movements against Dino's romantic approach. Don't really disagree with most points in your post, though some are so facile that I'd be embarrassed to make them myself.
post #18240 of 39182
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post




WOW!! Simply perfect. I would love to see a group shot of your Pateks. You have too of my favourites in the 3940 and 3970.
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