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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1214

post #18196 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post
BTW Dino944, sure you're not going to reconsider not being reverso ebuddies with me? I may or may not have one on the way... icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

Very tempting  decisions.gif.  I will certainly become a Reverso ebuddy with you one day.  However, I think the MRS will have me shot, stuffed, and mounted above the fireplace if I buy anything major before we know where we stand with our taxes.  So...DEETS please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy View Post

I am guilty of paying MSRP for one of my watches. It was just impossible to find this particular model at that time and I really wanted it. Am I am snob? No, I just wanted to have it - I know paying full price goes against SF rules:satisfied:

With regards to in-house vesus ETA, I couldn't care less. Give me a well machined case and a perfect dial and I'm a very happy customer. At the end of the day, how much hand finishing (e.g Pealage) do you really think goes into your watches?

 

Paying full retail does not go against SF rules.  I think its simply a matter of being an informed buyer.  There are watches I'd never pay full retail for...why, because I know I don't have to.  But I have paid MSRP on a few watches, because that was actually a good price...demand greatly outstripped supply and they were selling on the 2nd hand market for significantly more than I paid. 

 

Nothing wrong with not caring whats "under the hood."  We all have our priorities when it comes to watches.  As for the level of finishing on a movement, it greatly depends on the watch and what you are spending.  Within a certain range an ETA makes sense and its a good solid workhorse. However, once you are beyond a certain price range an ETA movement would be less acceptable to me. I'm not saying a movement would have to be made in house, but again at a certain price range I'd want something powered by a JLC, F.Piguet, Lemania, or Piaget movement.  If you think you are getting nearly the same level of workmanship and finishing on a $3,000 watch with an ETA movement as you will find in the top brands, well thats wishful thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Thatguy sounds like a Tag Heuer PR guy's wet dream


peepwall[1].gif

rotflmao.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

I've heard some people say that it would have been great if JLC had released the new blue as another TTR 1931 edition, but I'm with Jerome Lambert on this choice - its not a winning formula to release multiple limited editions of the same model with minor superficial changes... A very refreshing pov from a ceo in these times (cough, AP, cough)...

+1 on on Jermone Lambert's choice.

 

I am undecided on whether I like the blue Reverso.  I think its a model I will have to see in person before making a judgment.

post #18197 of 31011
A little Portuguese today

post #18198 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

IMO, much of the WIS fixation on movements comes out of a desire to add intellectual substance to an otherwise pretty vacuous and inconsequential hobby. I'm sure that stamp collectors and furries have similar classifications and hierarchies to rationalize their pursuits. That said, there are many ways that an optimized movement can substantively improve a watch, in such areas as accuracy, reliability, dial configuration, case proportions, and useful complications.

I'm sure you know the original purpose of finely finishing/decorating a movement was to remove all rough surfaces and edges so as to reduce friction that could rob a movement of accuracy and power.  

 

Today, with the machines that are currently available, most movements are quite accurate, and the finishing/decorating is IMHO about creating something of beauty and something thats not a disposeable good, such as a plastic quartz watch.  This is true with many high end goods.  Why do people buy a Kiton suit or a John Lobb shoes, or bespoke suit and shoes?  There are suits and shoes that cost less that have nice fabrics or good quality leather and varying degrees of hand workmanship.  Yes, someone might seek out a bespoke suit if they have an unusual build or issue that makes something off the rack a tough fit.  But for a person of average build, a $1,200 suit and $400 shoes may last a person just as long as a $5,500 suit and $4,500 pair of shoes.  So why spend the extra money?  I've never seen anyone undo the buttons and roll up the sleeves on a suit jacket, when the jacket sleeves have real button holes.  Except prior to making a purchase in a store you don't generally see people other than tailors or cobblers spend a lot of time looking at the stitching inside a jacket or inside a shoe.  Anyone can buy a mass produced, machine made suits, shoes, watches etc.   On some level hand workmanship on a watch, or finely finished item of clothing represents real effort, care and quality in a good.  Its something to take care of, to enjoy, to admire for its history, its beauty and on some level its rarity.  If none of these factors matter than why not wear a cheap plastic watch from the covenience store?

 

While some people don't care what movement is in a watch, there is no denying there is a vast difference between the movement found in a Tag, Omega, Breitling, or Rolex and say the movement found in a Lange.  Granted the others are designed to be more rugged, and the Lange is a dress watch that can double as artwork for the wrist.  I think there is more to the issue of interest in movements than simply being an act of inserting intelectual substance into a hobby, but to each his own.

post #18199 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Tonight's five to ten minutes worth of activity while waiting for a dryer full of clothes to finish a cycle.  Picked up my old DSLR (Canon T1i) and figuring out how to take a proper picture of one of my watches.  Wanted to highlight Patek's varying use of angles with the dial and subdials to enhance legibility while maintaining impeccable proportions with the fonts they use, the length of subdial hands and indicators, etc.  





Didn't quite accomplish my goal very well, I think.  Might be the low light evening environment (watch looks very different in the bright sunlight versus the yellow light in our living room).  The sapphire crystal is also picking up too much light by "12."  But, in any case, it's lovely to stare at this lovely platinum piece through the lens, and even lovelier to stare at it in person! 


I'll get this right at some point.  In the meantime, it's much, much easier to take great pictures of my daughters!  I just point and click, and 95% of the pics I take come out fantastic, no matter the lighting.  Clearly it's not because I'm a biased father, but because my daughters are far prettier and require much less "proper lighting" than any of the watches I own.  fistbump.gif

Gorgeous! One of my all time favourites.
post #18200 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

 

Word. (Click to show)

 

I'm sure you know the original purpose of finely finishing/decorating a movement was to remove all rough surfaces and edges so as to reduce friction that could rob a movement of accuracy and power.  

 

Today, with the machines that are currently available, most movements are quite accurate, and the finishing/decorating is IMHO about creating something of beauty and something thats not a disposeable good, such as a plastic quartz watch.  This is true with many high end goods.  Why do people buy a Kiton suit or a John Lobb shoes, or bespoke suit and shoes?  There are suits and shoes that cost less that have nice fabrics or good quality leather and varying degrees of hand workmanship.  Yes, someone might seek out a bespoke suit if they have an unusual build or issue that makes something off the rack a tough fit.  But for a person of average build, a $1,200 suit and $400 shoes may last a person just as long as a $5,500 suit and $4,500 pair of shoes.  So why spend the extra money?  I've never seen anyone undo the buttons and roll up the sleeves on a suit jacket, when the jacket sleeves have real button holes.  Except prior to making a purchase in a store you don't generally see people other than tailors or cobblers spend a lot of time looking at the stitching inside a jacket or inside a shoe.  Anyone can buy a mass produced, machine made suits, shoes, watches etc.   On some level hand workmanship on a watch, or finely finished item of clothing represents real effort, care and quality in a good.  Its something to take care of, to enjoy, to admire for its history, its beauty and on some level its rarity.  If none of these factors matter than why not wear a cheap plastic watch from the covenience store?

 

While some people don't care what movement is in a watch, there is no denying there is a vast difference between the movement found in a Tag, Omega, Breitling, or Rolex and say the movement found in a Lange.  Granted the others are designed to be more rugged, and the Lange is a dress watch that can double as artwork for the wrist.  I think there is more to the issue of interest in movements than simply being an act of inserting intelectual substance into a hobby, but to each his own.

 

 

 

It seems to me that although such a passion might be "inconsequential", making it about workmanship and, let's face it, difficulty, at least gives such a pastime some meaning.  We live in a disposable age.  I admire bespoke shoes or beautiful watches because they represent a human striving towards some kind of empirical, and impossible, perfection.  It pleases me to think that someone worked hard for years to master an extraordinary skill, and then, perhaps with others possessed of complementary skills, produced something that could never have been made for a mass market.

 

Whether that's a classic piece of design and a brilliantly managed industrial process to give mechanical reliability, like Rolex, or some sublime and original limited edition from a "top three" maker, I can relate to that process and feel emotional about it.  Even the aforementioned IWC with a generic movement, can represent to me a stylistic history and integrity that has merit over other watches.

 

I don't think anybody here really pretends that this passion is based on anything other than sentimental involvement in an idea.  If we worried about empirical measures of timekeeping and value, we'd all have a quartz Sekonda (actually, I do).  But just because a love of something is based on an unrealistic ideal, and items that are not inherently necessary, does not make it frivolous.

 

Perhaps it's not for me to say as a "noob" in this subject, but I think it's like this: this stuff is art.  Real art, reflecting originality, ambition, and the constant desire for improvement that is the curse of the human condition.  It's a history of modern civilisation - a nod to the incomprehensible acceleration of technology over the last two hundred years, while retaining the greatest love for what has survived as useful throughout all of that time.  Why anyone should love one manifestation over another is for discussion - hence this thread.  But that they should love it at all?  

 

Ah, to know it is to love it.  And now I'm starting to know, I'm in terrible trouble.

post #18201 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I'm sure you know the original purpose of finely finishing/decorating a movement was to remove all rough surfaces and edges so as to reduce friction that could rob a movement of accuracy and power.  

Today, with the machines that are currently available, most movements are quite accurate, and the finishing/decorating is IMHO about creating something of beauty and something thats not a disposeable good, such as a plastic quartz watch.  This is true with many high end goods.  Why do people buy a Kiton suit or a John Lobb shoes, or bespoke suit and shoes?  There are suits and shoes that cost less that have nice fabrics or good quality leather and varying degrees of hand workmanship.  Yes, someone might seek out a bespoke suit if they have an unusual build or issue that makes something off the rack a tough fit.  But for a person of average build, a $1,200 suit and $400 shoes may last a person just as long as a $5,500 suit and $4,500 pair of shoes.  So why spend the extra money?  I've never seen anyone undo the buttons and roll up the sleeves on a suit jacket, when the jacket sleeves have real button holes.  Except prior to making a purchase in a store you don't generally see people other than tailors or cobblers spend a lot of time looking at the stitching inside a jacket or inside a shoe.  Anyone can buy a mass produced, machine made suits, shoes, watches etc.   On some level hand workmanship on a watch, or finely finished item of clothing represents real effort, care and quality in a good.  Its something to take care of, to enjoy, to admire for its history, its beauty and on some level its rarity.  If none of these factors matter than why not wear a cheap plastic watch from the covenience store?

While some people don't care what movement is in a watch, there is no denying there is a vast difference between the movement found in a Tag, Omega, Breitling, or Rolex and say the movement found in a Lange.  Granted the others are designed to be more rugged, and the Lange is a dress watch that can double as artwork for the wrist.  I think there is more to the issue of interest in movements than simply being an act of inserting intelectual substance into a hobby, but to each his own.

Dino - I'm not sure we're on the same page on clothes and shoes. I appreciate bespoke suits and fine shoes to the extent that they function better than their downscale counterparts, generally either by doing more to improve my appearance or comfort or by lasting longer. That's not to say finishing is unimportant just because it's imperceptible to a layman. I appreciate the appearance of fine pickstitching or handsewn buttonholes or well designed interior pockets even though they contribute only marginally to the primary functions of the garment. Still, I would evaluate each of those on their merits - how well they achieve what they set out to do - rather than considerations of rarity, provenance, exclusivity, etc. or that they reflect "care" or "effort". I acknowledge that in many areas of the luxury goods market, reasonable people put a premium on artisanal workmanship. I guess it's just an idiosyncratic blind spot for me, as personally I would make no distinction in value between two functionally equivalent items (at least standardized, unlimited production, utilitarian objects, i.e. not art) just because one was produced by an esteemed artisan's hand and the other in a factory.

On watches, I have as much appreciation for anyone for movement engineering insofar as the purpose is to somehow improve functionality on the watch, as noted earlier, in areas such as accuracy, reliability, dial configuration, case proportions, and complications.
post #18202 of 31011
fooling around with the camera again. hope ya'll find some of these pr0norifiC.







WITH A FRIEND!!!


MOAR! (Click to show)





post #18203 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

It seems to me that although such a passion might be "inconsequential", making it about workmanship and, let's face it, difficulty, at least gives such a pastime some meaning.  We live in a disposable age.  I admire bespoke shoes or beautiful watches because they represent a human striving towards some kind of empirical, and impossible, perfection.  It pleases me to think that someone worked hard for years to master an extraordinary skill, and then, perhaps with others possessed of complementary skills, produced something that could never have been made for a mass market.

Whether that's a classic piece of design and a brilliantly managed industrial process to give mechanical reliability, like Rolex, or some sublime and original limited edition from a "top three" maker, I can relate to that process and feel emotional about it.  Even the aforementioned IWC with a generic movement, can represent to me a stylistic history and integrity that has merit over other watches.

I don't think anybody here really pretends that this passion is based on anything other than sentimental involvement in an idea.  If we worried about empirical measures of timekeeping and value, we'd all have a quartz Sekonda (actually, I do).  But just because a love of something is based on an unrealistic ideal, and items that are not inherently necessary, does not make it frivolous.

Perhaps it's not for me to say as a "noob" in this subject, but I think it's like this: this stuff is art.  Real art, reflecting originality, ambition, and the constant desire for improvement that is the curse of the human condition.  It's a history of modern civilisation - a nod to the incomprehensible acceleration of technology over the last two hundred years, while retaining the greatest love for what has survived as useful throughout all of that time.  Why anyone should love one manifestation over another is for discussion - hence this thread.  But that they should love it at all?  

Ah, to know it is to love it.  And now I'm starting to know, I'm in terrible trouble.

It IS an emotional hobby.

If you're doing it right.
post #18204 of 31011
Stichy: baked goods?! .... talk about emotional...
post #18205 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Stichy: baked goods?! .... talk about emotional...

nod[1].gif
post #18206 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post


Dino - I'm not sure we're on the same page on clothes and shoes. I appreciate bespoke suits and fine shoes to the extent that they function better than their downscale counterparts, generally either by doing more to improve my appearance or comfort or by lasting longer. That's not to say finishing is unimportant just because it's imperceptible to a layman. I appreciate the appearance of fine pickstitching or handsewn buttonholes or well designed interior pockets even though they contribute only marginally to the primary functions of the garment. Still, I would evaluate each of those on their merits - how well they achieve what they set out to do - rather than considerations of rarity, provenance, exclusivity, etc. or that they reflect "care" or "effort". I acknowledge that in many areas of the luxury goods market, reasonable people put a premium on artisanal workmanship. I guess it's just an idiosyncratic blind spot for me, as personally I would make no distinction in value between two functionally equivalent items (at least standardized, unlimited production, utilitarian objects, i.e. not art) just because one was produced by an esteemed artisan's hand and the other in a factory.

On watches, I have as much appreciation for anyone for movement engineering insofar as the purpose is to somehow improve functionality on the watch, as noted earlier, in areas such as accuracy, reliability, dial configuration, case proportions, and complications.

Agreed- we may be on slightly differnt pages with regard to clothing/shoes.  I think you have taken my clothing example perhaps too litterally, and perhaps with clothing you are more of a sensible, functional person.   No problem.  My point was there are always less expensive alternatives, so why do people spend top dollar for luxury goods? You may do so if it fits your functional untility requirement, but many people I know do it because of an item's beauty, the emotional appeal (as suggested by Keith), the finish and workmanship, the fact that its something you won't see on everyone else (I've heard plenty of Rolex haters say they avoid them because everyone has one), or on some items like a watch, a car, etc it could be its rarity or exclusivity.  For many people the purchase of a fine watch is something that goes far beyond its utiltiy.  As for use of the word rarity, I used it because I was also speaking of watches, but I agree rarity isn't an issue that comes into play with my clothing.   

 

Yes, I saw your earlier statement.  However, there is a difference between movement engineering and the finish on a movement.  A company can develop new movement and have an adequate finish, but not necessarily an exceptional finish.   In addition, once a watch is in a certain price range, shouldn't one be able to expect that the movement will be very nicely finished, even if its not a necessity?  Although you bring up movement engineering relative to dial configuration and case proportions, today movement engineering sadly doesn't come into play very often with regard to dial configuration or case proportions.  With the huge watch trend we have seen lots of companies, including some top brands, sticking existing smaller movements into larger cases, which often results in date windows moving inward and complications shifting toward the center of the watch, watch proportions sometimes becoming clunky, and giving one a sense that the main change on the watch was stylistic rather than functional. 

 

I appreciate your point of view...I just think there is room for beauty and workmanship in addition to utility.

post #18207 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

fooling around with the camera again. hope ya'll find some of these pr0norifiC.



WITH A FRIEND!!!

 

Cool photos!  Might be the first time I've seen Hamentashen used as a prop when photographing a watch.  Nice job fistbump.gif

post #18208 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Cool photos!  Might be the first time I've seen Hamentashen used as a prop when photographing a watch.  Nice job fistbump.gif

Thanks, buddy!!

I was hoping soneone would recognize them, lol.
post #18209 of 31011

So a red box arrived today.  Guess what was inside?

 

 

 

It sure looks good from the front!

 

 

 

But it also looks crazy sexy from the back!

 

 

 

But what does it look like on my wrist?

 

 

 

I couldn't very well get myself a 3970J without getting my wife a little something.

 

 

 

All in all, it's been a fun week hunting down these pieces.  This will most assuredly be my endgame watch, because my bank account for discretionary spending sums up to this:

 

 

 

Hope you enjoyed the pics!  Thanks as always for everyone's support in answering questions, weighing in on aesthetics and functionality, and enabling (as mimo put it so well) this emotional experience of mine/ours.......

post #18210 of 31011
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

So a red box arrived today.  Guess what was inside?

 

 

 

 

It sure looks good from the front!

 

 

 

But it also looks crazy sexy from the back!

 

 

 

But what does it look like on my wrist?

 

 

 

I couldn't very well get myself a 3970J without getting my wife a little something.

 

 

All in all, it's been a fun week hunting down these pieces.  This will most assuredly be my endgame watch, because my bank account for discretionary spending sums up to this:

 

 

Hope you enjoyed the pics!  Thanks as always for everyone's support in answering questions, weighing in on aesthetics and functionality, and enabling (as mimo put it so well) this emotional experience of mine/ours.......

Congrats

 

Stunning, just simply stunning.

 

Who cares if you have to eat Ramen the rest of the month. LOL

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