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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1180

post #17686 of 39116

I love the Chopard, but I would probably choose a JLC master series over it.  Caseback on those LUCs are beautiful though

post #17687 of 39116

AppleMark

 

 

AppleMark

 

thanks to gdl for getting us back on track

 

from a few days ago

post #17688 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

AppleMark

 

 

AppleMark

 

thanks to gdl for getting us back on track

 

from a few days ago

 

Very nice.

post #17689 of 39116
Loving it Cyclon. Also, congrats Stitchy, I am sure you are pleased by the big win. NOLA is mighty wild right now...
post #17690 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

Loving it Cyclon. Also, congrats Stitchy, I am sure you are pleased by the big win. NOLA is mighty wild right now...

i am not a ravens fan, lol. thanks though.
post #17691 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

I love the Chopard, but I would probably choose a JLC master series over it.  Caseback on those LUCs are beautiful though

Thats exactly what i recommended but apparently the chopard is almost like half the price
post #17692 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

sidebar - rolex is the number one advertiser in terms of money spend per year, they are often double the #2 spot. they are the most visible high end watch brand. with a lot of eyeballs, comes a lot of scrutiny. for better or for worse.

also, i do think the prices have gotten a bit too high. however, even if they are abandoning their previous price tier/market share, if they are still crushing it in their new higher price point, there is really no reason in the world they should stop.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

sidebar - rolex is the number one advertiser in terms of money spend per year, they are often double the #2 spot. they are the most visible high end watch brand. with a lot of eyeballs, comes a lot of scrutiny. for better or for worse.

also, i do think the prices have gotten a bit too high. however, even if they are abandoning their previous price tier/market share, if they are still crushing it in their new higher price point, there is really no reason in the world they should stop.

I think your right! But lets see how long those increases stay stable ! Stich,  just out of curiosity, how much are the 90's ss date- just, going for in your shop? Sorry I cant be specific I cant remember the exact model I had! I got a little over 1k for it on givawaybay (my brother's account) in 2005! 

post #17693 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

I think your right! But lets see how long those increases stay stable ! Stich,  just out of curiosity, how much are the 90's ss date- just, going for in your shop? Sorry I cant be specific I cant remember the exact model I had! I got a little over 1k for it on givawaybay (my brother's account) in 2005! 

we have not had one of those in a while. closest was a TT DJ from the late 80s. we get mid to high 2s for them.
post #17694 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


we have not had one of those in a while. closest was a TT DJ from the late 80s. we get mid to high 2s for them.

Alright, then  maybe I didnt do too bad, thankssmile.gif

post #17695 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post


Dino, thanks again for an excellent post which I think reveals that we're not very far apart on substance but are approaching the question from somewhat different directions. Responses to a few points raised:

1. I'm also not terribly impressed with watch advertising or any advertising for that matter as, like most educated people, I try to avoid being manipulated by marketing or paid celebrity endorsements. I did enjoy your rant about limited editions, which have clearly gotten out of hand. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

My point was about the mainstream perception of the brands in the retail and secondary markets, and how such perceptions may be evolving due to (i) increasing associations with unfashionable subcultures in the case of Rolex or (ii) focused and consistent marketing campaigns in the case of some other brands.

 



2. On pricing, it's plausible that Rolex wants to fill the void left by Patek etc. for $10k-15k SS sport watches. The wrinkle is that Patek's brand had always been associated with expensive precious metal watches so one could more easily understand the tradeoff of substantially increasing margins on high-volume lower-end models while only slightly diluting their brand for higher-end pieces. I'm pretty skeptical that Rolex has the "luxury" (pun not intended) to "borrow" brand equity from elsewhere in their product range in order to justify such price increases to the market. I'm probably too interested in watches to be objective but if I saw this narrative in a different industry I'd think the brand is recklessly abandoning market share at its current price tier. No surprise that Omega is rapidly expanding its range of SS sport watches with MSRP $4-8k.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3. On lifestyle, I'd note that I do actually like many Rolex watches and if stranded on a desert island, I may choose a Rolex to keep me company. However, I view "desert island" and "urban living" as two ends of a spectrum, with suburban living somewhere in between. I've lived in the suburbs and enjoyed the feeling of autonomy and independence because everyone does their own thing with little competition or social pressure to conform to norms and standards, at least with respect to personal presentation. In contrast, in a city there's a great deal of transparency with respect to what people are up to, and a widespread preoccupation with being associated with what cool and informed people are up to (plus a pathological fear of being left out, or missing out, cf. Styleforum). A few reasons for this phenomenon include (i) exposure to brands and advertising, inspiring curiosity for further research into those brands and markets (ii) exposure to wealthy, famous and/or trend-setting people, (iii) close quarters at home, bars/restaurants, offices, and public transportation, (iv) a snobbish perception of rural/suburban culture as backward. I'm painting a caricature of some monolithic "urban culture" as pretty rotten and shallow, but it's not all so negative. For young and materialistic people, it's (perversely) enjoyable to be surrounded by people who are well dressed and conversant with luxury goods.

 



Returning to watches, if I was truly in love with a Rolex model maybe I'd think differently, but as it stands I'd personally be uncomfortable to wear a Rolex as I'm pretty sure that people around me would notice and draw undesirable inferences without a chance for me to respond and make the WIS arguments in its favor. Frankly most people I know don't wear watches or wear Casio-type utilitarian watches, so to wear an expensive shiny watch in the first place is pretty expressive. To wear a Rolex is to make the statement that you felt the need to spend [$5,000] for the same luxury experience desired by a McMansion-dwelling frat boy.
 

 Hi Johan,

 

On some levels each of our perspectives are probably correct depending on where one is coming from and our experiences.

 

1. I'm glad you enjoyed my rant on limited editions.  I think limited editions can be good, if they are only produced occasionally and they actually honor someone or something of importance. 

 

2.  I also have questioned Rolex's choice to head further into the $10,000+ price range.  I think all watch prices have gotten crazy in recent years.  I questioned if I was nuts spending what it cost to get an all steel RO.  I love it and IMHO its one of the best watch purchases I've ever made.  I have no regrets about it, but it was still a lot of money for a steel time only watch.  Times change, markets change, and maybe they are going where they feel a broader a wealthier clientel exists.  There are more millionaires and billionaires than ever before, and someone making six figures is not as unusual as it was 15-20 years ago.  There is a very high end clothing store near me.  They used to have moderate priced suits Huge Boss and Zenga soft for their younger buyers, and then Luciano Barbera, Oxxford, Kiton, Brioni and Isia for people with more money.  In the early 90s their entry level suits were about $900 full retail, and better suits were$1,500-2,400.  They decided entry level clients weren't worth it for them (I would have thought its better to groom buyers from a young age, start with Boss/Zenga Soft and as their careers develop along with incomes, they move them into Oxxford then Brioni etc).  They decided to go up market where there may be fewer buyers but the buyers are less effected by swings in the economy and now their suits range from $3,000-6,500.   In the end everything has gone up in price, cars, clothing, and watches.  All watch companies have moved way up in price...Omega, Breitling, Rolex, Cartier, VC, AP, PP, Lange etc.  $10,000 is a lot of money and a drop off point for many buyers, but its still far from the rarified range that new Pateks, Langes, APs, etc cost. Its not as if you can spend say $12K and get a new Patek.  Right now $10-15K is a largely untapped market for a steel sports watch now that PP, AP, and VC are often close to $20K or considerably more.  If Rolex doesn't go there other companies will.  As for Omega going after the $4-8K range, that might push people to other brands also.   A friend that always avoided Rolex in the past, instead buying Zeniths, Omegas, and Breitlings, finally gave in and bought a Rolex Explorer 2.  His take on things was that with what Breitling and Omega are now charging for some products they are not the bargain they once were, and it helped him justfiy spending a bit more for a Rolex.  His other revelation was he wished he had bought it sooner when t would have cost him less money.  Whether going up market will work for Rolex we will have to wait and see.   

 

3.  Yes city living versus being on a deserted island are two extremes.  My point was that we may all adore the "Top of the line brands" but many are a bit delicate to be our only watch or to use if you have a very active lifestyle.  As for lifestyles in the city or suburbs, no matter where one lives there are always people that are "Keeping up with the Jones" and people that have to "one up" the people around them.  Not sure those people ever truly find happiness or satisfaction in anything.  Everything they do or own is for show, rather than for themselves. 

 

I respect and understand that you don't care for Rolex.  We all have likes and dislikes.  However, I have to disagree with your final paragraph.  You say "I'd personally be uncomfortable to wear a Rolex as I'm pretty sure that people around me would notice and draw undesirable inferences without a chance for me to respond." I've seen similar statements, made by other WIS.  I find it interesting that WIS spend a great deal of time worrying about the impression that wearing any watch makes on others.  Do you worry about the impression your car makes on others?  Do you worry about the impression your suits make on others in the real world or here on SF?  In reality, I find very few people in the real world care what watch you wear (most won't notice, much less comment on it, or judge you for it).  I've owned a Rolex of some form or other for nearly 30 years, lived in big cities, small cities, and suburbs, and the number of comments outside of jewelry stores or watch functions regarding my Rolexes have been very few and far between.  WIS are a very small segment of society, but they are often the biggest and only critics of the watches we wear.  The friend I mentioned earlier, who gave in an bought an Explorer 2, works on Wall Street for a huge banking/investment company.  He was concerned it would draw unwanted attention or comments, so in the beginning, he only wore it occasinally.  After a few months he discovered, no one cared, no one noticed, and no one commented on it.  He's had the watch now for 3 years and never had anything arise out of wearing a Rolex.  It was a concern he conjured up that never happened.

 

I work in very concervative field in an office where much as you described, people either don't wear watches or they wear a Casio Ironman.  A few guys know I like watches because they have seen me on a watch site here or there, but no one asks about my watches, no one comments on them and they just don't care about them.  Life is too short to worry if somone approves of your watch, car, house, suit, or anything else.

 

As for saying "To wear a Rolex is to make the statement that you felt the need to spend [$5,000] for the same luxury experience desired by a McMansion-dwelling frat boy."  I think that can be applied to anything.  To wear a Patek Philippe is to say you felt the need to spend X amount for the same luxury experience desired by a gangster like Tony Sopprano.  To wear a JLC is to say you felt the need to spend X for the same luxury experience desired by Leonardo DiCaprio .  To drive a Mercedes Benz is to say you felt the need to spend X amount for the same luxury experience desired by Paris Hilton.  With statements like that at what point can one buy something without worrying that someone is going to think that I bought something to try to experience some part of someone else's lifestyle?   Again, IMHO life is to short to worry about other peoples' impressions of my purchases.

 

Again thanks for some very thought provoking writing. 

post #17696 of 39116
Out of these, I would choose the IWC.

But the Chopard I really think is nice is this one: (from web)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

The watches are:

Chopard LUC 168500 3001 mark III in steel





The Cartier Ronde Solo




IWC Portofinio (Sorry i misquoted my last post its IWC not JLC)

post #17697 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

Out of these, I would choose the IWC.
But the Chopard I really think is nice is this one: (from web) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

i like these way better than the other chopard.
post #17698 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

The watches are:

Chopard LUC 168500 3001 mark III in steel

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





The Cartier Ronde Solo




IWC Portofinio (Sorry i misquoted my last post its IWC not JLC)

 

 The Chopard LUC has the nicest movement of those three, but I'm not really crazy about any of them.

post #17699 of 39116
while i think its true that some people buy items just to show that they can, i think that assuming that about someones purchase, is unfair. people buy a great many things for a great many reasons, and assuming what that is is generally an error, imo.
post #17700 of 39116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

 Hi Johan,
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
On some levels each of our perspectives are probably correct depending on where one is coming from and our experiences.

1. I'm glad you enjoyed my rant on limited editions.  I think limited editions can be good, if they are only produced occasionally and they actually honor someone or something of importance. 

2.  I also have questioned Rolex's choice to head further into the $10,000+ price range.  I think all watch prices have gotten crazy in recent years.  I questioned if I was nuts spending what it cost to get an all steel RO.  I love it and IMHO its one of the best watch purchases I've ever made.  I have no regrets about it, but it was still a lot of money for a steel time only watch.  Times change, markets change, and maybe they are going where they feel a broader a wealthier clientel exists.  There are more millionaires and billionaires than ever before, and someone making six figures is not as unusual as it was 15-20 years ago.  There is a very high end clothing store near me.  They used to have moderate priced suits Huge Boss and Zenga soft for their younger buyers, and then Luciano Barbera, Oxxford, Kiton, Brioni and Isia for people with more money.  In the early 90s their entry level suits were about $900 full retail, and better suits were$1,500-2,400.  They decided entry level clients weren't worth it for them (I would have thought its better to groom buyers from a young age, start with Boss/Zenga Soft and as their careers develop along with incomes, they move them into Oxxford then Brioni etc).  They decided to go up market where there may be fewer buyers but the buyers are less effected by swings in the economy and now their suits range from $3,000-6,500.   In the end everything has gone up in price, cars, clothing, and watches.  All watch companies have moved way up in price...Omega, Breitling, Rolex, Cartier, VC, AP, PP, Lange etc.  $10,000 is a lot of money and a drop off point for many buyers, but its still far from the rarified range that new Pateks, Langes, APs, etc cost. Its not as if you can spend say $12K and get a new Patek.  Right now $10-15K is a largely untapped market for a steel sports watch now that PP, AP, and VC are often close to $20K or considerably more.  If Rolex doesn't go there other companies will.  As for Omega going after the $4-8K range, that might push people to other brands also.   A friend that always avoided Rolex in the past, instead buying Zeniths, Omegas, and Breitlings, finally gave in and bought a Rolex Explorer 2.  His take on things was that with what Breitling and Omega are now charging for some products they are not the bargain they once were, and it helped him justfiy spending a bit more for a Rolex.  His other revelation was he wished he had bought it sooner when t would have cost him less money.  Whether going up market will work for Rolex we will have to wait and see.   
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
3.  Yes city living versus being on a deserted island are two extremes.  My point was that we may all adore the "Top of the line brands" but many are a bit delicate to be our only watch or to use if you have a very active lifestyle.  As for lifestyles in the city or suburbs, no matter where one lives there are always people that are "Keeping up with the Jones" and people that have to "one up" the people around them.  Not sure those people ever truly find happiness or satisfaction in anything.  Everything they do or own is for show, rather than for themselves. 

I respect and understand that you don't care for Rolex.  We all have likes and dislikes.  However, I have to disagree with your final paragraph.  You say "I'd personally be uncomfortable to wear a Rolex as I'm pretty sure that people around me would notice and draw undesirable inferences without a chance for me to respond." I've seen similar statements, made by other WIS.  I find it interesting that WIS spend a great deal of time worrying about the impression that wearing any watch makes on others.  Do you worry about the impression your car makes on others?  Do you worry about the impression your suits make on others in the real world or here on SF?  In reality, I find very few people in the real world care what watch you wear (most won't notice, much less comment on it, or judge you for it).  I've owned a Rolex of some form or other for nearly 30 years, lived in big cities, small cities, and suburbs, and the number of comments outside of jewelry stores or watch functions regarding my Rolexes have been very few and far between.  WIS are a very small segment of society, but they are often the biggest and only critics of the watches we wear.  The friend I mentioned earlier, who gave in an bought an Explorer 2, works on Wall Street for a huge banking/investment company.  He was concerned it would draw unwanted attention or comments, so in the beginning, he only wore it occasinally.  After a few months he discovered, no one cared, no one noticed, and no one commented on it.  He's had the watch now for 3 years and never had anything arise out of wearing a Rolex.  It was a concern he conjured up that never happened.

I work in very concervative field in an office where much as you described, people either don't wear watches or they wear a Casio Ironman.  A few guys know I like watches because they have seen me on a watch site here or there, but no one asks about my watches, no one comments on them and they just don't care about them.  Life is too short to worry if somone approves of your watch, car, house, suit, or anything else.

As for saying "To wear a Rolex is to make the statement that you felt the need to spend [$5,000] for the same luxury experience desired by a McMansion-dwelling frat boy."  I think that can be applied to anything.  To wear a Patek Philippe is to say you felt the need to spend X amount for the same luxury experience desired by a gangster like Tony Sopprano.  To wear a JLC is to say you felt the need to spend X for the same luxury experience desired by Leonardo DiCaprio .  To drive a Mercedes Benz is to say you felt the need to spend X amount for the same luxury experience desired by Paris Hilton.  With statements like that at what point can one buy something without worrying that someone is going to think that I bought something to try to experience some part of someone else's lifestyle?   Again, IMHO life is to short to worry about other peoples' impressions of my purchases.

Again thanks for some very thought provoking writing. 


My take on the spike in watch prices is the strong demand for luxury watches in Asia, particularly large, emerging economies like China, HK and Singapore with a burgeoning middle- and upper-class. For many in Asia, a Rolex is a critical status symbol. Any business person worth half their salt in Singapore, HK, etc. wouldn't be seen wearing anything less costly than a Rolex, one upmanship with ALS, PP, AP, VC, etc. denoting success of senior execs, etc.
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