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post #17626 of 31057
Life Decisions.

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post #17627 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

As for resale, judging by TZ and rolexforums, I think SS Subs and Daytonas are the only modern pieces that hold their value especially well, and even then only about as much as the popular Panerai/IWC/etc. models when compared to AD pricing.

 

That is more accurate in the short term, maybe over the course of 2-5 years.  In my experience, in the long term (7-10 years) the all steel sport Rolex watches (Sub, GMT, Explorer 1, Explorer  2, Sea-Dweller, and Daytona) increase in value beyond what the MSRP was, and well beyond what I paid for them brand new.  On average the Sub,GMT, Ex1 and Ex2 can be sold for 20-25% more than their purchase prices, the 116520 Daytona 50% more, and a 16520 El Primero based Daytona could be sold for 2-3 times its original purchase price.  The result of price increases and slow evolutions in design, has been to pull the prices of pre-owned pieces up substantially.  Whether the trend continues only time will tell.

 

Most IWCs of the same time period generally haven't increased in value.  Maybe as a result of them drastically changing a models over the years and some pieces becoming dated...one of the down sides to major changes in appearance.

 

Panerai usually have very strong resale, and popular or rarer pieces do appreciate in value.  However, unless its a rarer piece it probably only had a Unitas or Val 7750 (which were often found in watches costing a fraction of what a Panerai cost...which might bother some people). 

post #17628 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdeuce22 View Post

Life Decisions.

FD728889-9043-4407-898C-239D96DCA9E9-8946-000003148EC74EDE.jpg
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

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 Nice options...however the decision would be easy for me...Speedy Pro !!!!  Good luck and let us know what you decide.

post #17629 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

That is more accurate in the short term, maybe over the course of 2-5 years.  In my experience, in the long term (7-10 years) the all steel sport Rolex watches (Sub, GMT, Explorer 1, Explorer  2, Sea-Dweller, and Daytona) increase in value beyond what the MSRP was, and well beyond what I paid for them brand new.  On average the Sub,GMT, Ex1 and Ex2 can be sold for 20-25% more than their purchase prices, the 116520 Daytona 50% more, and a 16520 El Primero based Daytona could be sold for 2-3 times its original purchase price.  The result of price increases and slow evolutions in design, has been to pull the prices of pre-owned pieces up substantially.  Whether the trend continues only time will tell.

Most IWCs of the same time period generally haven't increased in value.  Maybe as a result of them drastically changing a models over the years and some pieces becoming dated...one of the down sides to major changes in appearance.

Panerai usually have very strong resale, and popular or rarer pieces do appreciate in value.  However, unless its a rarer piece it probably only had a Unitas or Val 7750 (which were often found in watches costing a fraction of what a Panerai cost...which might bother some people). 

It's hard to do an apples/apples comparison with these watches since IWC/Panerai only recently started competing in earnest for the segment that Rolex has dominated for decades - upper middle class professionals - with corresponding production volume, product range, investment in brand equity, etc. You don't really see too many 7-10 year old IWC/PAMs on the market, and the few that are there sell for easily more than the original asking price, when calculated according to original MSRP minus customary AD discount. For example, look at the prices for used IWC 5002 Big Pilots, 5001 Port, Mark XII/XVs, 3536, 3703, 3716, PAM 111/183, etc. 7-10 year old examples sell today for about 50-70% of current MSRP (depending on production volume and whether the models were discontinued), and all had original MSRP of 50-70% of current MSRP. Therefore, the AD discount at time of purchase is roughly similar to the profit margin at time of sale, at least on average, with variance depending on the desirability of the particular model (and to be fair, how much profit is anyone making off of a 10 year old Datejust, Airking, or any TT Rolex?). Also as you note, when you consider limited production models (IWC 5000/Jubilee, transitional 5002, PAM 127, etc), the profit ceiling is much higher.

That said, I think it's a mistake to overemphasize historical results. Instead think about why modern Rolexes (<20 years old) have performed so well on the secondary market. My guess is that it's because the market is so broad, with so many people aspiring to Rolex ownership but unable to afford a new model. I believe that for reasons unrelated to the intrinsic quality of the watches, Rolex's brand equity is declining as some of these other brands are ascending - it's becoming less the classy alternative to Omega/Tag and more the dowdy and less glamorous alternative to IWC/Panerai/AP - and so the aspirational premium on the secondary market is shifting to the newer brands.

JMHO
post #17630 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

 Nice options...however the decision would be easy for me...Speedy Pro !!!!  Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Same thoughts here. The Speedy Pro is the classic, between the two. And, I find it's easier to dress up the Speedy than it is a Seamaster. The Speedy looks fine with a jacket and tie, especially if you switch it to a black croc strap. The Seamaster somehow feels out of place with a suit. JMO, YMMV.
post #17631 of 31057

Here's a good Rolex story from the winning driver at the Rolex Daytona 24 last week:

http://jalopnik.com/5980884/the-funniest-story-youll-ever-hear-about-a-rolex

The Funniest Story You’ll Ever Hear About A Rolex

(Dr. Jim Norman, driver of the Napleton Racing #16 Porsche Cayman team that just won the GX class of the 2013 Rolex 24, has the funniest Rolex story you'll ever hear! In his own words — OHL)

Funny story: Today I took my new Rolex to the jeweler right down the street from my house in Tampa to get a link taken out so it fits me better (for those of you who don't know, the winning drivers of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona are presented with a new Rolex timepiece in Victory Lane).

The jeweler re-sizes it for me and charges me $8. I say "Wow, 8 bucks, that's not very much." The manager lady says, "well, if it were a REAL Rolex we would charge you more!" I chuckle and say "it IS a real Rolex."

She says, "Nope it is not...We know Rolex watches and this is definitely a fake."

My retort, "well, I guess you don't know these as well as you think!"

Hearing this, the Jeweler comes out from behind his little glass window from where he is working on a frail, blue-haired lady's broach while wearing some very dorky-looking magnifying glasses and says, "I'll bet you bought that watch in New York." He puts both hands in his back pockets and sticks out his skinny "bird" chest in an attempt to be strong and assertive. "Nope" I say, "I haven't been to NYC in some time." He quickly replies, "I'll bet you $1000 you didn't buy that from a real Rolex dealer". I say, I won't take that bet, because you are right, I didn't buy this from a Rolex dealer."

"AH HA!" he exclaims, "it IS a fake!! Where did you get it??" "I got it in Daytona this past Sunday." "HA! I am right!" he shouts, almost loud enough to break some of the crystal elephants assembled as a group on one of the overhead glass shelves. "I know all the Rolex dealers in Daytona, and none of them are open on Sundays!" He is quite pleased with himself and turns to strut back to his window-enclosed, nick-knack cluttered cubby.

"Maybe I didn't get it from a dealer" I state smugly. He turns and says, "well then tell me, who DID you get this FAKE Rolex from?" "Well, I stated calmly and coolly, I was presented this beautiful timepiece from the President and CEO of Rolex Watches while standing on the podium at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona." "OH, Sure!" he says, "and I'm Santa Claus!!"

And back into his cubby he went, oblivious to the REAL world around him. He doesn't get it... The world is passing him by and he isn't even aware that it is happening. You gotta love life and embrace life, even if it means you have to wear a fake Rolex.


post #17632 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch38 View Post

Here's a good Rolex story from the winning driver at the Rolex Daytona 24 last week:

http://jalopnik.com/5980884/the-funniest-story-youll-ever-hear-about-a-rolex

The Funniest Story You’ll Ever Hear About A Rolex

(Dr. Jim Norman, driver of the Napleton Racing #16 Porsche Cayman team that just won the GX class of the 2013 Rolex 24, has the funniest Rolex story you'll ever hear! In his own words — OHL)

Funny story: Today I took my new Rolex to the jeweler right down the street from my house in Tampa to get a link taken out so it fits me better (for those of you who don't know, the winning drivers of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona are presented with a new Rolex timepiece in Victory Lane).

The jeweler re-sizes it for me and charges me $8. I say "Wow, 8 bucks, that's not very much." The manager lady says, "well, if it were a REAL Rolex we would charge you more!" I chuckle and say "it IS a real Rolex."

She says, "Nope it is not...We know Rolex watches and this is definitely a fake."

My retort, "well, I guess you don't know these as well as you think!"

Hearing this, the Jeweler comes out from behind his little glass window from where he is working on a frail, blue-haired lady's broach while wearing some very dorky-looking magnifying glasses and says, "I'll bet you bought that watch in New York." He puts both hands in his back pockets and sticks out his skinny "bird" chest in an attempt to be strong and assertive. "Nope" I say, "I haven't been to NYC in some time." He quickly replies, "I'll bet you $1000 you didn't buy that from a real Rolex dealer". I say, I won't take that bet, because you are right, I didn't buy this from a Rolex dealer."

"AH HA!" he exclaims, "it IS a fake!! Where did you get it??" "I got it in Daytona this past Sunday." "HA! I am right!" he shouts, almost loud enough to break some of the crystal elephants assembled as a group on one of the overhead glass shelves. "I know all the Rolex dealers in Daytona, and none of them are open on Sundays!" He is quite pleased with himself and turns to strut back to his window-enclosed, nick-knack cluttered cubby.

"Maybe I didn't get it from a dealer" I state smugly. He turns and says, "well then tell me, who DID you get this FAKE Rolex from?" "Well, I stated calmly and coolly, I was presented this beautiful timepiece from the President and CEO of Rolex Watches while standing on the podium at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona." "OH, Sure!" he says, "and I'm Santa Claus!!"

And back into his cubby he went, oblivious to the REAL world around him. He doesn't get it... The world is passing him by and he isn't even aware that it is happening. You gotta love life and embrace life, even if it means you have to wear a fake Rolex.


 

That's a fantastic story, heh heh.

post #17633 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch38 View Post

Here's a good Rolex story from the winning driver at the Rolex Daytona 24 last week:
http://jalopnik.com/5980884/the-funniest-story-youll-ever-hear-about-a-rolex

The Funniest Story You’ll Ever Hear About A Rolex




Dr. Jim Norman, One Hot Lap

(Dr. Jim Norman, driver of the Napleton Racing #16 Porsche Cayman team that just won the GX class of the 2013 Rolex 24, has the funniest Rolex story you'll ever hear! In his own words — OHL)
Funny story: Today I took my new Rolex to the jeweler right down the street from my house in Tampa to get a link taken out so it fits me better (for those of you who don't know, the winning drivers of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona are presented with a new Rolex timepiece in Victory Lane).
The jeweler re-sizes it for me and charges me $8. I say "Wow, 8 bucks, that's not very much." The manager lady says, "well, if it were a REAL Rolex we would charge you more!" I chuckle and say "it IS a real Rolex."
She says, "Nope it is not...We know Rolex watches and this is definitely a fake."
My retort, "well, I guess you don't know these as well as you think!"
Hearing this, the Jeweler comes out from behind his little glass window from where he is working on a frail, blue-haired lady's broach while wearing some very dorky-looking magnifying glasses and says, "I'll bet you bought that watch in New York." He puts both hands in his back pockets and sticks out his skinny "bird" chest in an attempt to be strong and assertive. "Nope" I say, "I haven't been to NYC in some time." He quickly replies, "I'll bet you $1000 you didn't buy that from a real Rolex dealer". I say, I won't take that bet, because you are right, I didn't buy this from a Rolex dealer."
"AH HA!" he exclaims, "it IS a fake!! Where did you get it??" "I got it in Daytona this past Sunday." "HA! I am right!" he shouts, almost loud enough to break some of the crystal elephants assembled as a group on one of the overhead glass shelves. "I know all the Rolex dealers in Daytona, and none of them are open on Sundays!" He is quite pleased with himself and turns to strut back to his window-enclosed, nick-knack cluttered cubby.
"Maybe I didn't get it from a dealer" I state smugly. He turns and says, "well then tell me, who DID you get this FAKE Rolex from?" "Well, I stated calmly and coolly, I was presented this beautiful timepiece from the President and CEO of Rolex Watches while standing on the podium at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona." "OH, Sure!" he says, "and I'm Santa Claus!!"
And back into his cubby he went, oblivious to the REAL world around him. He doesn't get it... The world is passing him by and he isn't even aware that it is happening. You gotta love life and embrace life, even if it means you have to wear a fake Rolex.

Great story.

Watch odyssey update - today I went to one of eight AL&S boutiques in the world. Yay for me! smile.gif

The boutique is surprisingly small, a real hole in the wall, but I guess that's to be expected in space-scarce Singapore. It has not officially launched yet, it's sort of in the soft launch phase.

Service in the boutique was excellent, with refreshments appearing out of nowhere without any prompting. I was also given a catalogue when I left, once again without any prompting. It is a substantial piece of work, and makes other catalogues look... cheap. After the AL&S boutique I dropped into The Hour Glass to look at some Breguets and you should have seen the look on the HG salespeople when they spotted the AL&S carrier bag... devil.gif

Being possessed of a rather cruel streak, I put the salesman through his paces with a stream of questions about the various Lange models (most of which I knew the answers to already... heh) - he performed remarkably well, with the only hiccup being his explanation of why there was a $2,500 price difference between the WG and PG Lange 1s ("more gold" in the WG version...???!!). A welcome change from the usual clueless AD staff.

Some observations....

The Lange 1s are beautiful, as always. I have now set my heart on a WG Lange 1; in partficular ref. 101.027x would be a grail for me. I got to spend nearly 20min with a loupe examining the Lange 1 movement, which was absolutely fantastic.

The (new) Grand Langes are in their way possibly even more well proportioned than the Lange 1s - their slimmer profile is noticeable, and very appealing. I had a hard time deciding which I liked better, the Grand or vanilla Lange 1.

The Zeitwerk is interesting, but sadly proportioned like a hockey puck.

The prices were a little... surprising - the Lange 1 is SGD$45,000, which is approx USD$36,300. The discount was bad, nay, pathetic for Singapore - just 5%.

AL&S have withdrawn their brand from The Hour Glass, so Sincere Watches are the only other outfit in town stocking AL&S. The salesman helpfully informed me that the discount was also "locked" at 5% at that other AD.

I could have sworn Lange 1s were just $31,000 last year?? It's pretty surprising that you can get Langes cheaper in the USA than in Singapore, watch mecca that it is.

Anyway, to make up for the lack of boutique/AD photos, a gratuitous watch photo:


Edited by apropos - 2/2/13 at 6:10am
post #17634 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Great story.

Watch odyssey update - today I went to one of eight AL&S boutiques in the world. Yay for me! smile.gif

The boutique is surprisingly small, a real hole in the wall, but I guess that's to be expected in space-scarce Singapore. It has not officially launched yet, it's sort of in the soft launch phase.

Service in the boutique was excellent, with refreshments appearing out of nowhere without any prompting. I was also given a catalogue when I left, once again without any prompting. It is a substantial piece of work, and makes other catalogues look... cheap. After the AL&S boutique I dropped into The Hour Glass to look at some Breguets and you should have seen the look on the HG salespeople when they spotted the AL&S carrier bag... devil.gif

Being the slightly immature fellow I am, I put the salesman through his paces with a stream of questions about the various Lange models (most of which I knew the answers to already... see, I did say immature) - he performed remarkably well, with the only hiccup being his explanation of why there was a $2,500 price difference between the WG and PG Lange 1s ("more gold" in the WG version...???!!)

Some observations....

The Lange 1s are beautiful, as always. I have now set my heart on a WG Lange 1; in partficular ref. 101.027x would be a grail for me. I got to spend nearly 20min with a loupe examining the Lange 1 movement, which was absolutely fantastic.

The (new) Grand Langes are in their way possibly even more well proportioned than the Lange 1s - their slimmer profile is noticeable, and very appealing. I had a hard time deciding which I liked better, the Grand or vanilla Lange 1.

The Zeitwerk is interesting, but sadly proportioned like a hockey puck.

The prices were a little... surprising - the Lange 1 is SGD$45,000, which is approx USD$36,300. The discount was bad, nay, pathetic for Singapore - just 5%.

AL&S have withdrawn their brand from The Hour Glass, so Sincere Watches are the only other outfit in town stocking AL&S. The salesman helpfully informed me that the discount was also "locked" at 5% at that other AD.

I could have sworn Lange 1s were just $31,000 last year?? It's pretty surprising that you can get Langes cheaper in the USA than in Singapore, watch mecca that it is.

 

Great story here. Do you go to Singapore often?

post #17635 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch38 View Post

Here's a good Rolex story from the winning driver at the Rolex Daytona 24 last week:

http://jalopnik.com/5980884/the-funniest-story-youll-ever-hear-about-a-rolex

The Funniest Story You’ll Ever Hear About A Rolex

(Dr. Jim Norman, driver of the Napleton Racing #16 Porsche Cayman team that just won the GX class of the 2013 Rolex 24, has the funniest Rolex story you'll ever hear! In his own words — OHL)

Funny story: Today I took my new Rolex to the jeweler right down the street from my house in Tampa to get a link taken out so it fits me better (for those of you who don't know, the winning drivers of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona are presented with a new Rolex timepiece in Victory Lane).

The jeweler re-sizes it for me and charges me $8. I say "Wow, 8 bucks, that's not very much." The manager lady says, "well, if it were a REAL Rolex we would charge you more!" I chuckle and say "it IS a real Rolex."

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

She says, "Nope it is not...We know Rolex watches and this is definitely a fake."

My retort, "well, I guess you don't know these as well as you think!"

Hearing this, the Jeweler comes out from behind his little glass window from where he is working on a frail, blue-haired lady's broach while wearing some very dorky-looking magnifying glasses and says, "I'll bet you bought that watch in New York." He puts both hands in his back pockets and sticks out his skinny "bird" chest in an attempt to be strong and assertive. "Nope" I say, "I haven't been to NYC in some time." He quickly replies, "I'll bet you $1000 you didn't buy that from a real Rolex dealer". I say, I won't take that bet, because you are right, I didn't buy this from a Rolex dealer."

"AH HA!" he exclaims, "it IS a fake!! Where did you get it??" "I got it in Daytona this past Sunday." "HA! I am right!" he shouts, almost loud enough to break some of the crystal elephants assembled as a group on one of the overhead glass shelves. "I know all the Rolex dealers in Daytona, and none of them are open on Sundays!" He is quite pleased with himself and turns to strut back to his window-enclosed, nick-knack cluttered cubby.

"Maybe I didn't get it from a dealer" I state smugly. He turns and says, "well then tell me, who DID you get this FAKE Rolex from?" "Well, I stated calmly and coolly, I was presented this beautiful timepiece from the President and CEO of Rolex Watches while standing on the podium at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona." "OH, Sure!" he says, "and I'm Santa Claus!!"

And back into his cubby he went, oblivious to the REAL world around him. He doesn't get it... The world is passing him by and he isn't even aware that it is happening. You gotta love life and embrace life, even if it means you have to wear a fake Rolex.

 

 


 Great story.  Reminds me a bit of an experience a friend of mine had dealing with Tourneau in NYC years ago. 

post #17636 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Great story here. Do you go to Singapore often?

Not really, maybe once every 2 or so years.

I lived there for a period of time, and it's changed a lot since I've left. It's a great place in some ways, a not so great place in other ways. The food culture there is fantastic, unmatched anywhere else I've been so far. The country is very well run. If you're into material/ephremal things it's a fantastic place to visit/shop/experience various other debauched things, but I don't think it's a good place to settle down or raise children unless you are in the top 0.05% income bracket.

In other words, it's sort of becoming Hong Kong, but with worse weather!
Edited by apropos - 2/2/13 at 6:27am
post #17637 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post


The prices were a little... surprising - the Lange 1 is SGD$45,000, which is approx USD$36,300. The discount was bad, nay, pathetic for Singapore - just 5%.

Which Lange boutique did you go to? Just before new years i was looking at some pieces at their Ion boutique and they offered 15% right off the bat.
post #17638 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

Which Lange boutique did you go to? Just before new years i was looking at some pieces at their Ion boutique and they offered 15% right off the bat.

I went to the monobrand AL&S boutique. IIRC I was told that the Ion AL&S boutique has only been open for a bit under 2 months, so by "boutique" in your post I think you might be referring to the "Atelier" AD, which is run by the Hour Glass - i.e. the AD that lost the AL&S account?

If so, I guess we can see why now!! nod[1].gif

If not, maybe I look "prosperous", or maybe they sensed "tourist" and smelt blood, or maybe I need to rethink my bargaining strategy!! shog[1].gif
post #17639 of 31057
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

I went to the monobrand AL&S boutique. IIRC I was told that the Ion AL&S boutique has only been open for a bit under 2 months, so by "boutique" in your post I think you might be referring to the "Atelier" AD, which is run by the Hour Glass - i.e. the AD that lost the AL&S account?

If so, I guess we can see why now!! nod[1].gif

If not, maybe I look "prosperous", or maybe they sensed "tourist" and smelt blood, or maybe I need to rethink my bargaining strategy!! shog[1].gif


Wait dammit! if you are right this is bad news for me, i was saving for an 1815! Dam you hour glass!

Edit: There was no strategy! you just walked in and asked for their "best price" and they immediately pulled out a calculator and deducted 15%
post #17640 of 31057

Friday' shot on the South-German autoban, shitty winter weather.

 

 

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