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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1149

post #17221 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

...

You have got a few years on me, but not too many then! And I guess I rarely see many advertisements outside of the ROO, and special edition models. Even the magazine articles on AP tend to revolve around the new editions of the ROO. That is an interesting perspective though. To me, I feel like their 'classic' collection is no longer their bread and butter. I have a feeling that the vast majority of their sales come from their ROOs and the like, and I really do not understand why they keep the classic collection?

For example, let us introduce Exhibist 1 and 2:

http://ap.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-3/pi-5691963/ti-840148/s-0/
http://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/novelties/26564IC.OO.D002CR.01

I understand there are going to be more novelties... but even their "haute horologie" piece, at least to my eyes, seems to lack direction. Looking at that piece, I don't automatically think AP. On the other hand, I could point out a Lange novelty, or a PP novelty, or even a VC novelty a mile away. Even GO. Out of the novelties, I see 7/9 are RO and RO variants. 1/9 is a woman's watch. And the other one is a Haute Horology piece. For a company with such a heralded history, surely there is a dearth of classic dress watches, or at least some variety.

I just think its funny that I always hear the trinity spoken of together... but AP seems to have gone off on its own tangent. At least since I have been around (2 years?).

I just wonder the long term effects.

Very interesting how divergent our feelings are!

I never realized that about AP's history though. I guess I have just started ignoring history, being that so much of it is either contrived or a lie. That certainly makes me respect the brand a whole lot more!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

...

I can certainly agree with that! And that is quite humorous about VC... I kind of agree in a way though! VC is definitely more exotic than PP. And I have to agree with the fact that all three are kind of on the same level. I prefer VC's cases, PP's 'harmony,' and AL&S' movements.
post #17222 of 38411

Newcomer: I agree to some degree. I suspect that Hublot's excessive and often hideous copycatting is having a negative impact on AP's image. I do like the elegance and inimitability of the classic RO lines, though.

post #17223 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


\

sidebar - i also had, and still do have, the impression, that though PP is part of "the big three," i see them as slightly above.

Im actually interested in hearing why you think so? Is it because of marketing/the watch movements/ history? Anything in particular that causes you too see them as slightly above? Im not trying to defend VC, and AP or anything I'm just interested in what causes people to view a certain brand in a certain way
post #17224 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

You have got a few years on me, but not too many then!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
And I guess I rarely see many advertisements outside of the ROO, and special edition models. Even the magazine articles on AP tend to revolve around the new editions of the ROO. That is an interesting perspective though. To me, I feel like their 'classic' collection is no longer their bread and butter. I have a feeling that the vast majority of their sales come from their ROOs and the like, and I really do not understand why they keep the classic collection?
For example, let us introduce Exhibist 1 and 2:
http://ap.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-3/pi-5691963/ti-840148/s-0/
http://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/novelties/26564IC.OO.D002CR.01
I understand there are going to be more novelties... but even their "haute horologie" piece, at least to my eyes, seems to lack direction. Looking at that piece, I don't automatically think AP. On the other hand, I could point out a Lange novelty, or a PP novelty, or even a VC novelty a mile away. Even GO. Out of the novelties, I see 7/9 are RO and RO variants. 1/9 is a woman's watch. And the other one is a Haute Horology piece. For a company with such a heralded history, surely there is a dearth of classic dress watches, or at least some variety.
I just think its funny that I always hear the trinity spoken of together... but AP seems to have gone off on its own tangent. At least since I have been around (2 years?).
I just wonder the long term effects.
Very interesting how divergent our feelings are!
I never realized that about AP's history though. I guess I have just started ignoring history, being that so much of it is either contrived or a lie. That certainly makes me respect the brand a whole lot more!

well, i would imagine that because for whatever reason, the RO/ROO became very very popular, and all these watch companies are in fact business out to make money, they would have to be dumb not capitalize on that success. so they pour R&D and advertising into developing that model. hence the offerings you see. and im not sure what that cushion shaped tourb/repeater/chrono is about, but i think its neat. im not really that up with the newest offerings.

now, happens to be i like a lot of the ROs, and others i think are way OTT. but while we might be here pointing fingers, they are laughing all the way to the bank. i dont think that in the long run it will hurt them at all. its just one of the many successful chapters in their long and illustrious history (yes, i am a huge AP fanboi). i imagine, its only a matter of time before they move on to something else. all smart companies are always moving and changing to a degree.

i dont know how much they put into their other models, but i assume they still make them. here are some from the JA and EP lines that i think are great. it was these types of things that got me on the AP wagon. i did not link many uber high complication and torbs, i tried to keep it on the simpler side.

and while a lot of the watch history out there is fluff filled, i would recommend reading up on AP, and some other of the more venerable brands too. VC/PP/ALS/Blancpain/JLC some cool stuff to learn and find out about in their history.

also, yes, it is very interesting how divergent our impressions are, lol.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
NEWS---GRAND-PRIX-d'HORLOGERIE-DE-GENEVE-2009-Jules-Audemars-watch-with-Audemars-Piguet-escapement-26153PT.OO.D028CR.01.jpg



























post #17225 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

Im actually interested in hearing why you think so? Is it because of marketing/the watch movements/ history? Anything in particular that causes you too see them as slightly above? Im not trying to defend VC, and AP or anything I'm just interested in what causes people to view a certain brand in a certain way

just an impression i got. the more i read about them, the more i see the fineness of their models and the attention to detail, the more i feel that way. its just the cache they have developed. maybe it has more to do with image than actual quality or value, but that is just the vibe i get. i see them a notch higher. cant say exactly why, but i do. ill have to think on it and try and get back to it.
post #17226 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

just an impression i got. the more i read about them, the more i see the fineness of their models and the attention to detail, the more i feel that way. its just the cache they have developed. maybe it has more to do with image than actual quality or value, but that is just the vibe i get. i see them a notch higher. cant say exactly why, but i do. ill have to think on it and try and get back to it.

No worries, i was actually in the same dilemma a few years ago when decided between VC and PP for my first dress watch and to be honest reading too far into it gave me a headache lol. You are right though that Patek does give off that impression and even i sort of feel that way which is weird because deep down i know they are of the same calibre. But I'm guessing if you and me both were born a generation or two earlier we would be saying the same thing about VC
post #17227 of 38411
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincefb View Post

4u7a5yme.jpg

 

Very handsome Vacheron!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by academe View Post


Fully agree with you on the multiple LE iterations of the ROO chronos. It's a bit of a smorgasbord, but many love them for it.

Toss up for me when I next have the cash is between either the Jules Extra Thin or one of the Divers...The Millenary 4101 has been on my radar, too. Apples and oranges, I know. I waver back and forth. Would like to have a refined dress watch in my collection, but feel that I would get more use from the Diver. I spend most of my spare time chasing after small children, I wear tweeds and flannels to work, and spend time in the outdoors, so in many ways, the Diver would be a better fit to my lifestyle...

 If I got another AP, I'm not sure if I would want a RO Chronograph, an Offshore Diver, or one of their dress watches.  Each have their strengths.  I'm not really a fan of the Millenary, with the exception of one model that is out of production.  The Millendary Star Wheels (it was a form of jump hour), made great use of the case shape and was stunning in each metal it in which it was offered.  A friend had a rose gold Millenary Star Wheels and it was simply stunning!  If your life style is more casual and outdoors, maybe an Offshore Diver is the best choice for you.  If you don't have a true dress watch, maybe you will always feel a need to scratch that itch until you finally get one.  So maybe you need a Diver AND a Jules Audemars Extra Thin!   I hope that last sentence really helped you with your decision wink.gif

post #17228 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

newcomer - that is very interesting.

i first started learning about watches in my early 20s, mostly through advertisements, and then through watch articles and eventually watch magazines at about 25. around that time, i actually had mentally grouped AP/VC/PP together in my head, before i ever heard the term, "the big three." just from the ads i saw, the things i read, and the vibe i got. i just put those 3 at the top of the pile, and i dont think i am from an earlier generation, i mean, im only 30 (even though saying that makes me feel old).

so i find it interesting that though you probably saw much of the same things i did, you processed it differently.

i do think that a lot of people think first of RO/ROO when they hear AP, and that is certainly different than the vibe of VC/PP, but for me, the first image i think of is the equation of time watch, and that is probably because i saw so many ads for it. when i think of AP i think of their very rich history, the fact they are still privately owned and partially by someone of the original family, their many many high complication watches, their constant innovations in haute watchmaking, and their very classy models. the RO/ROO are a nice (the nice ones that is, everyone makes watches that people dont like) afterthought to me. like a tasty dessert after a steak. and for me, that is why i feel they deserve to be planted firmly in "the big three."

sidebar - i also had, and still do have, the impression, that though PP is part of "the big three," i see them as slightly above.

Interesting to read how you and Newcomer started learning about watches.  You guys are both younger, your perceptions are different, but each makes sense based on your experiences.  I'm almost 42, and I have been interested in watches since I was about 10 or 11.  I learned a lot from my Dad who knew the brands Patek (his uncle owned one in the 1950s) and he met someone in the early 1970s that showed him an AP.  VC was a brand he learned about from another doctor in the 1980s who had gone to school in Europe.  Back in those days, the only way to get information about watches was from printed ads or to get catalogs.  The internet didn't exist and it was really tough to get information about watches.  Back then I though each company made its own movements.  Its really only been since the 1990s that those printed Wristwatch Annual Catalogs came out and then there were website like TZ and eventually watch companies created there own sites. 

 

I think you hit a number of important points regarding why AP is rightfully considered one of "The Big Three."  They have made some very amazing complications, and if I am not mistaken, in the 1980s they were the first company to incorporate a tourbillion into a wristwatch.  They are the originator of the luxury steel watch with the Royal Oak.  Everyone including PP, VC, GP, and IWC to name a few all followed with luxury sport watches once they eventually saw the ROs were selling.  AP also has as you pointed out the distinction of still being owned by a founding family, and Jasmine Audemars is the Chairwoman of the Board of Directors. 

 

I think Patek might be at the top of the big three in my mind, as I do think their finishing and quality is maybe a notch above, VC.  I think PP and AP are really on par in terms of quality from what I've seen, but I think their edge over AP is they dominate in the world of resale and auction prices so for that reason maybe I see them as a step above.  Although, I've alway thought most Pateks while beautiful, with the exception of the Nautilus, were largely for much older men and many of their dress watches were a bit sterile compared to what was offerd by VC and AP.  Just my 2 cents. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

Talking about AP, PP, and VC, and their respective reputations has kind of got me thinking recently. As a relative newcomer to horology, it is interesting to read the perspective of others in regards to the 'trinity.' As a younger guy (at least in regards to most on this thread), I feel like I have a very different perspective of the trinity than most. I think that out of the three, I definitely view PP to be in a league of its own (I am excluding AL&S). PP is definitely what I have always perceived as the tip-top of the tier. Somewhere below them I view VC. I actually never heard of VC until I became more interested in watches. Even now, I view them as a slight step down from PP, but in the same realm.

What I find kind of funny is how people tend to lump AP in with PP and VC (and AL&S). At least from my perspective, I generally associate AP with rappers, nouveau riche, etc. In a lot of ways, like a more expensive Hublot or possible IWC. Now, that is not to say that I necessarily think that. There are a lot of AP pieces that I would LOVE to own. I just typically do not think of them as being part of that top tier anymore. They do not market like PP or VC, they have much more 'mainstream' styles, they use celebrities. When I think of AP, I automatically think of the ROO, and various special editions.

I guess I just find it interesting, because for me, AP just does not hold the same cachet as I think it does for other generations.

You perspective is a bit too narrowly focused and maybe your experience growing up in the age of rappers and sports stars wearing APs has prevented you from really seeing the brand beyond what it has been in the last 20 years.  As mentioned AP really invented the luxury sport watch with the Royal Oak and others followed.  In addition, AP was really known for dress watches and highly complicated pieces for decades before the RO existed.  In addition, even in the 1980s the RO was a pretty rare sight and was not as prominent a model as it has been during the last 15-20 years.  Also their advertising campaign and who they associated with up until the 1990s, included old aristocracy, old actors (Douglas Fairbanks Jr.), historians (Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.) and others that were hardly the house hold names back in the 1980s, that Lebron James and JayZ are today.  Check out these old watch ads (for fun just to see the pricing of an all gold AP or Rolex).  http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/jewelry-and-watches-ads-1970s   http://www.vintagepaperads.com/1984-Audemars-Piguet-Royal-Oak-Watches-Ad_p_51976.html

 

AP and Patek are both relatively young compared to VC which was established in 1755.  Until roughly the 1950-1960s, VC was considered the top brand of the big three.  I think some of what caused that to change were the changes in ownership that I believe took place around that time.  VC also went through periods when they were underfunded and had lots of different models but no real cohesive collections. 

 

Patek is well known, they make roughly twice as many watches as AP or VC.  And although coveted by colletors and auction houses today...years ago dealers sat on huge stocks of them and as recently as 2003/2004 you could easily walk into dealers and get 30%+ off anything other than a 5070.  Heck my Dad bought a brand new Calatrava from an AD back in 1994 or 1995, and just to move it they gave him 40% off the list price.  So these watches were not always these items that people covet in the same way they do today.  Years ago one dealer told me they carry it more as a novelety and occasional sell them, but they make all of their money selling Rolex and Cartier...they could live on those alone, all the other brands were for show.

 

Vacheron makes beautiful watches.  I have 2 of their dress watches and I adore them.  Although the oldest brand of the three they seem to have been the the least well known of the brands during the last 30-40 years.  In part as mentioned, they have had several owners, sometimes been underfunded, sometimes had collections with no real direction, they were the last of the big three to figure out how to make a sport watch that would be successful and enduring (They started with the 222 in the 70s which I thought was nice looking, then came out with an ugly offshoot the 333, then the uglier Phidias, and finally in the mid 90s they released the 1st generation Overseas).  Overall I like some of their dress watches, but I don't think the quality of their sports watches in terms of finish and reliability have been on the same level as AP or Patek. 

 

Personally, I don't like the marketing direction that AP has taken.  I think it cheapens the brand and maybe your perception of the brand is proof of that.  However, I suppose their success and need capture the attention and funds of a younger generation, may be proof that being an obscure brand with a slogan "Known only by those who know" will not provide the clients, success, or funds neccessary to carry on with important R&D and to sustain themselves rather than having to be bought out like most companies.

 

I'm a bit saddened that you really only know the brand as a watch that appeals to rappers and sports stars, as I think you have not seen or been given enough information by AP to know how rich and strong their history of making superb watches is.  However, I can't blame you based on their ad compaigne which I don't like.  I think if you do some serious research into the brand you will see and understand they are deserving of being one of "The Big Three."

post #17229 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ B ~ View Post

Good catch, that one slipped my mind.

Seems the nearest in price range to mine is the Dornblueth at under 5k. But none of these guys offer a bespoke hand-engraved balance cock, let alone two of them in a single movement.

Thanks for the kind words, appreciate it.
want to see more of your watches posted on here.

thanks
post #17230 of 38411

So, how many of you are actually purchasing your watches for bribery purposes?

post #17231 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Check out these old watch ads (for fun just to see the pricing of an all gold AP or Rolex).  http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/jewelry-and-watches-ads-1970s   http://www.vintagepaperads.com/1984-Audemars-Piguet-Royal-Oak-Watches-Ad_p_51976.html

 

 

Thanks for sharing these old watch ads. I especially loved the historical context provided - GM was basically its own nation in the early 1970s! 

post #17232 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski10 View Post

Hey everyone,

 

what do you guys think of Ball watches?  I own a Tag Formula 1 (college grad present) and am looking to start building a collection now that funds are coming in.  Ideally, something a bit more dressy than my sporty black dial Tag.  I had planned to pick up a Hamilton Jazzmaster Viewmatic (http://www.hamiltonwatch.com/en/ladies/american-classic/jazzmaster/viewmatic-auto/H32515555) as my dress watch...and probably still will (is this SF approved?)...but not next.  The reason I'm looking into Ball - I was recently presented with the opportunity to pick one up at 60% off retail price from a friend working at an AD.  This puts them into my $800-$1000 price range, and I figure I can get "more watch for the buck" as my research indicates good quality and a cool history.  What do you guys think about the following two?

http://www.tourneau.com/shop/brand/ball-watch/trainmaster-eternity-51405p

 

http://www.tourneau.com/shop/brand/ball-watch/fireman-victory-51393p

 

Both are available in different faces and straps...I'm leaning towards a silver face with a brown leather strap to be a bit more on the dressy side...but open to whatever

 

Whats the SF input on these?  (apologies if this post should be in the poor man's watch thread - not sure where the dividing line is)


Fellas,

 

this watch was brought to my attention by the gentlemen on the Watchuseek forums: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f257/review-ball-trainmaster-cleveland-express-cosc-silver-dial-bracelet-1-year-later-506779.html

 

what are the thoughts on this?  loving the look of it...not quite as dressy as i was picturing...but i feel like it could work?

post #17233 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Hi, everyone! Been lurking for months and learned a lot of stuff from you all.  Read through all 1,130+ pages (and counting) in this thread, along with some other sites, and after living most of my life with a couple of forgettable quartz pieces I decided to take the plunge last November to upgrade the collection.  Started with some classic mechanical pieces, grew restless after a short while so did some trades and upgrades (some of you will know this drill - I went through "the purge" with my clothes and shoes as well).  Finally achieved some "peace" with my current collection.  Here's one of my faves:




Do folks on the street recognize what this is on my wrist?  Not really.  Can people tell the difference between white gold and the subtle beauty and heft of this platinum beauty?  I don't think so.  But I know its value (to me, and in the collectors' market), and I love its aesthetics, workmanship and how its slim 36mm profile slips oh so easily under my shirt cuff.  It gives me much joy every time I look at it - probably every few minutes, especially if I'm in a boring meeting. smile.gif  Am I a douchebag?  Naw, just a guy approaching his 40s who's worked hard all his life, got lucky and got to save some money, and is probably going through a midlife crisis of sorts. 


Thanks to you all for sharing your thoughts and pictures in this thread.  It is much appreciated.
quite nice. post the rest of the new collection.
post #17234 of 38411
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post


quite nice. post the rest of the new collection.

 

Thank you - I posted pics of the 5040J a few days ago, but here's another shot of my little tonneau-shaped beauty roaming Sixth Avenue in NYC: 

 

 

Here is a not-so-good shot of my 5711, which I brought with me on a recent trip to Disneyworld. Pardon the bad lighting but this was the best shot my crappy camera phone could manage right before the Disney Electrical Parade started at 7pm EST. 

 

 

I wanted to get a wrist shot right by the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride, so that at least the 5711 would be right beside Captain Nemo's "Nautilus" - heh heh.  But I didn't realize that I was holding on to memories from a long-gone childhood back in the '80s.  That ride was shut down in the mid-1990s.  Oh well...

 

Actually, despite the bad photo I kind of like how the amazing blue/green dial of the 5711 catches the little remaining light in the background. It's one of the many things I quite like about this watch.  Like many folks I was repelled by the 5711 the first time I saw it - in 2D, online.  But once I saw it for real, and once it was sitting on my wrist... well, I had to have it.

post #17235 of 38411
On my wrist this wintery Thrusday morning:

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