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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1095

post #16411 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEPennypacker View Post

My latest acquisition, an IWC devil.gif:





This version was inspired by the original Portofino 5251 and the 5250 pocket watch from the 1970s (not my pic):

Together with the rest of my Christmas haul:
 

 Handsome choice...and the original is a very cool watch too!  Congrats and enjoy!

post #16412 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

  However, if I bought one watch as a less expensive substitute for what I really wanted, it would never satisfy me and I would still be thinking about the watch I truly wanted.  Life is too short to settle for substitutes. 

My life is too short not to settle. As long as money is an issue I think it might be wise to settle. The same with most things otherwise you'd never be happy.
post #16413 of 35576
I have to agree with gdl here wholeheartedly. While I see the similarities, I feel the Lange doesn't automatically make the PML irrelevant. The Lange is leagues more expensive , and so if one can't afford the Lange 1, should they just forget about PML completely?

These two models are in different price brackets, and while the PML is certainly no slouch, the ALS is going to be unattainable for most of the even WIS-afflicted.

I personally think that the PML is awesome. And I also think that the Lange 1 is amazing, and I can definitely see the appeal of both. By the way, I'm not saying the GO is a 'poor man's Lange' either. There are many similarities, but enough differences in styling that I think would make their owners extremely happy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

You seem like a good guy, and if you own a Pano hopefully you enjoy it. GO makes a very good quality watch and I would consider owning some form of Senator or a watch that doesn't look like a tribute to the Lange 1. I don't own a Lange 1 or a GO, so I have no axe to grind. 

IMHO the Lange 1 was a ground breaking design and the Pano wasn't.  Its not a copy, but come on, you can clearly see where they got the idea for the dial design.  In addtion, I've met people that said with a Pano they got Lange 1 styling at a significantly reduced price...so doesn't that indirectly say that even some Pano buyers are choosing it, because in your own words its a ,"Poor man's Lange."  I don't think anyone questions the teutonic roots of the GO, but for me and several other watch collectors the Pano just feels like a watch that pays tribute to the Lange 1.  It lacking originality or that something special that makes it stand out on its own without being compared to a Lange 1.  

Your BMW/Bentley comparison in respect to a Lange 1/Pano seems rather weak, as neither BMW nor Bentley makes a product that attemtps to look like the other.  As a side issue I don't know if you randomly chose the 2 to compare or if you were using them because you thought BMW owns Bentley, they don't.  BMW owns Rolls Royce, its Volkswagen that owns Bentley. 

When you say, GO has its own DNA...and has evolved into its own aesthetic...that applies more to the Senators than the Panos.  I never compare the Senator Chronometer to a Richard Lange or Saxonia.  Now in case you think I'm a fan of Lange and a hater of GO...I think GO does a better job of making other lines outside of the Pano that are very attractive...while I find the Lange 1 is really the only watch thats really enticing from Lange. I find most other round Lange's a bit boring...so maybe on some level Lange is a bit of a one trick pony. 

If someone loves a Pano and is getting it because they love it (not because they see it as a cheaper alternative to a Lange 1) then by all means they should get it.  If their reason for buying it is because its cheaper and gives them a sort of Lange 1 look, then perhaps they shouldn't buy it.  Maybe some people are easily satisfied with by their second or third choice.  However, if I bought one watch as a less expensive substitute for what I really wanted, it would never satisfy me and I would still be thinking about the watch I truly wanted.  Life is too short to settle for substitutes. 
post #16414 of 35576
I have enjoyed the discourse so far smile.gif. I am certainly leaning more towards the MUT Moon at this juncture, but I would like to see a PML in the flesh before I make any rash decisions. The way I look at it, the MUT Moon is just about the perfect watch of its type. I really cannot think of a comparator that I would prefer to it. Whereas with the PML and Lange, I guess there is a comparator, the Lange 1 Moonphase. But then, you are looking at a watch that retails for under $10,000, and another that retails for under $40,000. That is a CONSIDERABLE difference, and at the $40,000 price point, I may want to choose a Patek Perpetual Calendar. Heck, Lange may not even be around, or they may not make that model anymore. There are a lot of ifs.

Personally, I love the PML. However, I wish I could merge the last generation and the current generation together. Personally, I actually prefer the case of the previous version and the size / bezel size, whereas I prefer the dial on the newer version. I have not seen a wristshot that I found attractive of the new version. This is really the only thing that is holding be back from it. Cyclon's pictures of the PML really made it look different than I imagined, and we have similar sized wrists. In contrast, I love how GDL's looks on his.

I figured that this question would cause a discussion. They are great moonphases at a very similar price, and from two amazing brands. The JLC has a timeless quality to it though that really makes it a sensible choice. I worry a bit about its versatility, but would IMMEDIATELY purchase some brown, and maybe a navy strap.

Thanks for the words so far, everyone.
post #16415 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos View Post

Yep - http://www.watchband-shop.com/Watch-strap-Genuine-water-buffalo-vintage-brown
Cheap too!
Apropos of nothing, felt like sharing a photo of my old Navi with a new mesh bracelet. I think I prefer it to the original bracelet, which is very nice but a little... shiny. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

looks great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

So, I am debating selling off my JLC Master Control, and I think I am going to spring for one of the following: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Either the GO PML:

Or, conversely, the JLC MUT Moon:

The other alternative is potentially to keep the JLC Master Control, and then perhaps pick up a Rolex No Date Sub.
All three options have been swimming around my head for the past week or so, and I am at something of an impasse. It makes the most sense to me to sell the JLC MC and pick up the JLC MUT Moon. I would like a MUT Moon, and just do not see the point of owning a MC and a MUT Moon. On the other hand... the GO PML is such a beautiful watch, and it has always pulled at the heartstrings. However, recent wristshots of it have been a bit of a let down, and I wonder if I will always simply wish it was a Lange.
Decisions, decisions. Anyone have any thoughts (Dino, I have a feeling I can pin yours biggrin.gif).

love the GO. geep the JLC MC and get the GO. devil.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Thanks! How about these? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
dsc9518001.jpg
dsc9516001.jpg
Leather NATOs are a bit of an acquired taste. They don't suit every watch, but I like them on pilot's watches; in fact, I prefer them for looks and comfort to the nylon variety for airplane-ey models.
I don' t like any type of leather strap on a diver's watch, though. Same deal with a gold case or chronograph function on a diver's model — cognitive dissonance.

amazing. thanks for the pics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

That fantasy vision of GO being a poor man's Lange is so twisted it's not even funny. Yet, some WIS like to perpetuate this concept. GO is GO with its own DNA (which lineage traces back to the same as Lange as we all know) and has evolved into its own aesthetic , while keeping the teutonic roots of Glashutte watchmaking design. It has a sportier design, slightly more industrial and less dressy than AL&S. It's just a different watch. I don't hear people saying : don't buy a BMW because it's really not a Bentley. Different engine, different price point. Like the watches on their own merits - or not. No need to constantly come back to the GO vs AL&S as if that was some sort a binary choice. I hear sometimes people saying stuff like that for Omega vs Rolex and it also makes my eyes roll.
Believe it or not, I know some people who like both GO and AL&S, who like both Omega and Rolex. Crazy, I know !
/ rant

agree with this. while i do think there are certainly design similarities, i still agree with the above.
post #16416 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by point1 View Post


My life is too short not to settle. As long as money is an issue I think it might be wise to settle. The same with most things otherwise you'd never be happy.

With somethings yes, with some things no.  Maybe a $10 million dollar home would be great, but thats not realistic at least not for me.  As for some items, I can't settle, it would be a waste of time and money.  I have a buddy that spends a good amount on watches, he often buys a good watch not wanting to spend more than a self imposed amount even though he could afford more (which is fine).  But he does it even when he sees one that he truly wants which is maybe a few thousand more.  Then he truly lusts for the other model.  After a year or two he sells/trades the watch he bought, then buys the one he really wanted.  However, by that point in time, he is dealing with the depreciation of the watch he bought and any subsequent price increases on the model he truly wanted.  So in the end he has the watch he truly wanted, but it has cost him significantly more than if he just bought it to start.  To me, thats not a great way to do things either. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

I have to agree with gdl here wholeheartedly. While I see the similarities, I feel the Lange doesn't automatically make the PML irrelevant. The Lange is leagues more expensive , and so if one can't afford the Lange 1, should they just forget about PML completely?
These two models are in different price brackets, and while the PML is certainly no slouch, the ALS is going to be unattainable for most of the even WIS-afflicted.
I personally think that the PML is awesome. And I also think that the Lange 1 is amazing, and I can definitely see the appeal of both. By the way, I'm not saying the GO is a 'poor man's Lange' either. There are many similarities, but enough differences in styling that I think would make their owners extremely happy

 

Everyone is different as are their tastes.  For me, I just would not be happy with a PML, even if a Lange 1 Moonphase is well beyond my reach.  I just find the PML design not original enough. While its very good quality I just view it as a tribute watch, and that detracts from it for me.  If I were going to buy a GO, it would be from the Senator line. I would choose something that is distinctly GO, rather than something that mimics a different brand.   However, I am sure there are lots of people that are happy with their PMLs and thats great for them. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

I have enjoyed the discourse so far smile.gif. I am certainly leaning more towards the MUT Moon at this juncture, but I would like to see a PML in the flesh before I make any rash decisions. The way I look at it, the MUT Moon is just about the perfect watch of its type. I really cannot think of a comparator that I would prefer to it. Whereas with the PML and Lange, I guess there is a comparator, the Lange 1 Moonphase. But then, you are looking at a watch that retails for under $10,000, and another that retails for under $40,000. That is a CONSIDERABLE difference, and at the $40,000 price point, I may want to choose a Patek Perpetual Calendar. Heck, Lange may not even be around, or they may not make that model anymore. There are a lot of ifs.
Personally, I love the PML. However, I wish I could merge the last generation and the current generation together. Personally, I actually prefer the case of the previous version and the size / bezel size, whereas I prefer the dial on the newer version. I have not seen a wristshot that I found attractive of the new version. This is really the only thing that is holding be back from it. Cyclon's pictures of the PML really made it look different than I imagined, and we have similar sized wrists. In contrast, I love how GDL's looks on his.
I figured that this question would cause a discussion. They are great moonphases at a very similar price, and from two amazing brands. The JLC has a timeless quality to it though that really makes it a sensible choice. I worry a bit about its versatility, but would IMMEDIATELY purchase some brown, and maybe a navy strap.
Thanks for the words so far, everyone.

Glad you are enjoying.  I never mind being the devil's advocate.  I do see the significant difference in price if one compares the steel to the gold version.  I didn't realize you were considering the steel Pano.  The difference between a gold Pano and gold Lange 1 is about $15,000 which isn't chump change, but still not as drastic as roughly $10K v. $38K.  I love the Lange 1 moonphase especially in platinum, but for now unless I liquidated a bunch of watches that I really love, its beyond my reach.  Still the price issue doesn't make a PML more attractive to me.  There are other watches from other brands that I would rather own which IMHO do not suffer from looking like a tribut watch.  I like things that are distinct and have their own identity and for me that is lacking in a PML, hence if a GO were on my radar it would be some form of Senator.  In general I prefer JLCs to GOs anyway.

 

Even though PMLs aren't my thing, I look forward to seeing your decision making process and wish you luck and lots of fun with the research and shopping!

post #16417 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

If I were going to buy a GO, it would be from the Senator line. I would choose something that is distinctly GO, rather than something that mimics a different brand.   However, I am sure there are lots of people that are happy with their PMLs and thats great for them. 

this is interesting. i guess i just dont see the PML to be a "tribute." its nice that you have not written off GO entirely, just the lines that you dont like. thats cool.
post #16418 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

With somethings yes, with some things no.  Maybe a $10 million dollar home would be great, but thats not realistic at least not for me.  As for some items, I can't settle, it would be a waste of time and money.  I have a buddy that spends a good amount on watches, he often buys a good watch not wanting to spend more than a self imposed amount even though he could afford more (which is fine).  But he does it even when he sees one that he truly wants which is maybe a few thousand more.  Then he truly lusts for the other model.  After a year or two he sells/trades the watch he bought, then buys the one he really wanted.  However, by that point in time, he is dealing with the depreciation of the watch he bought and any subsequent price increases on the model he truly wanted.  So in the end he has the watch he truly wanted, but it has cost him significantly more than if he just bought it to start.  To me, thats not a great way to do things either. 

+1, nothing wrong with experimenting but recognize it's pretty extravagant to spend thousands on stopgap watch rentals (buying a watch with the intention of flipping it later), whereas if you have a realistic idea of what your ultimate/ideal collection will look like, it makes sense to put your watch funds toward those items sooner rather than later.
post #16419 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEPennypacker View Post

My latest acquisition, an IWC devil.gif:

I love this watch but its just TOO fucking big! 46mm is massive even in today's jumbo watch world. I really wish IWC would redo it with a 40 or 42mm case. So damn sexy. Its got everything on my watch wish list - roman numerals, moon phase, sub second, and even those little circle thingies on the hands.
post #16420 of 35576
Am in negotiations with a well known and reputable seller on a different forum to buy a vintage chronograph from a maker best known for their ebauches.

The listing has pretty poor photos - for example it's actually difficult to tell brushed vs polished on the lugs, and photos are smallish (approx 800p)

I've asked for some additional details - but I'm getting a distinct pushback vibe from the seller...

Guys, it's not unreasonable to ask for movement and inside caseback photos right? ffffuuuu.gif
post #16421 of 35576
Thread Starter 
No it's not unreasonable.

That said, things that can be annoying for a seller include: (a) multiple successive requests, as if whenever something is provided the potential buyer comes up with something else he needs, (b) detailed requests that are out of proportion with the value of the watch, e.g. 10 back-and-forth emails and hi-res pictures for a $300 vintage chrono. People's time has value too.

Not saying that's anything you did, but wanted to add a bit of nuance to the simple answer that asking questions is OK.
post #16422 of 35576
We've exchanged only 2 PMs so far in total, it's >$3000, and I've already been declined better photos because "that's the only camera I have" or words to that effect.

I would walk away usually, but this particular model is one that I've been hunting for a bit... ffffuuuu.gif
post #16423 of 35576
Thread Starter 
ugh... some people are just not good at selling their stuff.
post #16424 of 35576

Thought I'd weigh in on the ongoing Newcomer debate, since well yknow...

 

1. I feel as if getting the vintage rolex would be a wasteWhy? Because you already have the speedy pro. And a vintage sub would be kinda redundant. That's not to say that you shouldn't get it at some point, but swapping out the MC for another sports watch at this point in time doesnt make sense.

 

2. The MUT Moon is amazing, if cold. As you know, I was kinda "over it" for awhile. I think that stems from the fact that it can be a pain to reset the date/moonphase. So my piece of advice is to get a winder, and a hell yes to the other straps.

 

3. Try the GO on. This is a must. I may be in the minority on this one, but I prefer the GO to the Lange (and dont see them as related watches either), but like you said I wish there was a merger of previous case/bezel size, and the dial of the contemporary one.  If I could choose one Lange itd be the worldtimer, BUT if I chose a worldtimer itd be the PP not the Lange. 

 

4. Tangential but related. I love the IWC portofino moonphase but alas its just too big for my wrists.

post #16425 of 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

I love this watch but its just TOO fucking big! 46mm is massive even in today's jumbo watch world. I really wish IWC would redo it with a 40 or 42mm case. So damn sexy. Its got everything on my watch wish list - roman numerals, moon phase, sub second, and even those little circle thingies on the hands.

i believe those are called breguet hands. one of his many still implemented designs.
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