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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 1051

post #15751 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hi B,

Yes, the 1955 escaped me and I never really liked the coin watch so its just not on my radar.  I think our tastes and opinions (other than on the JLC 1931) may differ quite a bit.  I am not really in love with most current VCs.  I've tried the 1955 and the 1968, and thought both were very unimpressive and overpriced.  One of the few of the Historique models I really like is the such as 1921 American (although I'm not sure how I feel about its movement).   The Aronde is interesting but I don't think I like it enought that I would ever buy one.  Overall, I'm just not in love with most modern VCs. These days their prices seem to overshadow and outweigh the quality of their items.  As for the Toledo, I only like in its earlier handwound remake from the early 1990s when I believe it was just called the Carree.  I don't care for the current version, I find it too clumsy and bulkie, and I don't care for its dial.

I think VC's vintage pieces are definitely under appreciated and under valued both in terms of quality and price.  I also think many were more daring and beautiful in design, than what we see today.  A friend of mine had a collection of more than 30 vintage VCs and each was really special, interesting in design, and incredibly high quality.  My only issue with them is, although I'm not someone that feels I have to have a giant watch to follow the current watch market designs, some of the vintage models are a bit on the small side. 

As for the Privee Cartiers, they are nothing like the standard models of the past 10 years.  They are also more finely finished than their few higher quality non-ETA movment watches which were part of their mainstream collection.    Each use incredibly high quality base movements from JLC, THA, F.Piguet, and Piaget, and then they are finished to Cartier's own standards.  As for quality I would put them against any top brands.  Lange and Patek are the only ones that are definitely still more finely finished.  However, that still leaves them in very distinguished company.  As for the cost of service on a basic time only piece, they are significantly less than Rolex or the high end brands.  The few Cartier servicings on basic watches that my family has had done, ran about $450 (although the last was about 3 years ago).  I don't think you can get a Rolex serviced for under $600. 

Regarding Piaget, I think the 90s was a dark time for them.  Clumsy designs that often were not memorable such as the Tanagra.  I think the Polo of the 90s was interesting but I didn't see why it got that name as it had no relation to the original in terms of design.  Although I don't own one, I do have a soft spot in my heart for some of their vintage dress watches with stone dials.  Yes, there are some flashy and unwearable Piagets, but JLC, Zenith, Patek, VC, AP are not innocent of having produced some strange designs and/or goofy, blingy jeweled pieces.  As for their quality, I think I disagree with you there.  Again its another brand that from what I've seen produces pieces that are definitely on par with JLC, AP, VC.  Patek may have finer finshing and IMHO, only Lange really finishes their pieces in a manor that is beautiful and well beyond the others.  My friend who has had more than 30 VCs (most vintage), APs, a Lange Datograph, (not sure he has had a Patek)  and currently has a tourbillion from and independent (and he has been to many of the watch factories) has a Piaget Altiplano with subdial for seconds at 10, on his short list.  He is also of the opinion that they are every bit as good as any of the top Swiss brands.  I'm not a watchmaker, but he practically could be.  He can easily get into and explain some of the more technical  issues about movements, that could easily put some seasoned collectors too sleep.  He has also done quite a bit of writing about movements and watches. 

As for the 1120, I am not that pleased with what VC has been doing with their versions.  I think AP has done a much better job in terms of quality and finish of their version which is cal 2120.  To be honest, although I am not really in love with AP's dress watches, I think their quality these days is a notch above many current VCs. 

Well at least we can agree on the JLC 1931.  Congrats on your latest acquisition!  That's a watch that I think JLC really did an amazing job with.  The strap doesn't matter to me, I could take it or leave it.  The rest of the watch is ideal.  I know some here find it small, but I find the Reverso case just loses some of its beauty and elegance, and becomes too thick and more sport watch when you get into the XGT cases.  IMHO, at least on my wrist the 1931, looks and feels perfect.  Congrats again, an excellent choice I hope that you will enjoy for many years.

Hi Dino,

No worries about a difference in opinion or taste. We can all agree to disagree, especially on a topic as subjective as watches. Actually from much of what you've written I actually think we have pretty similar aesthetic tastes, but differ only on opinions on technical issues. For example, like you, I prefer tank or tonneau shaped watches for dress as well, as they are more interesting.

Likewise with you, I find myself unimpressed by the majority of current VCs, even the Metier d'Árt collection. For enamel dials from European watch brands, I prefer Van Cleef watches which are made by Agenhor. The 1955 left me feeling the vintage cal 1003 watches were made much better, and the 1962 is quite ugly imho.

The Toledo dial is also a little busy, but the case is just so voluptuous, rekindling the image of the old Cioccolatone.

If you think vintage VCs were daring (which they were!), look at Rolex's vintage output. It makes their current models look utterly staid and unadventurous.

Oh no, I understand that the Privee Collection is finished to a higher standard and was marketed as their marquee pieces. I checked out a friend's mono-poussoir with the THA movement and thought it was nice, but that I would rather have other watches for the money. I have a Cartier with the Piguet movement (though not CPC) and it is, suffice to say, badly made and finished. I think there are still several brands apart from Lange and Patek that could exceed Cartier.

As for Cartier servicing, seems it is a lot cheaper in the States. In Asia, it can run 2 to 3 times the amount you mentioned. I was quoted the price you mentioned to change the battery on my Cartier quartz travel clock!

I handled the Altiplano with the subdial at 4 o clock, but disliked it for the huge 43mm case and some imperfections on the dial printing. I find the latter unacceptable on a watch of this price level. Also played with the Double Jeu and some of their öne-off piece uniques, but just find their designs a little gauche. I agree with you that several other brands produce gaudy designs. But Piaget just seems to only produce ugly watches. Of course this is my opinion. I think their movement finishing is fine for the price but when I buy a watch, the dial matters just as much.

Of course, the AP 2120 was a special product made just for the ref 15202, so I figured they would put in more effort. It is also more "in-house" now, if that matters.

Thank you! I love the Reverso 1931 and it is one of the watches I wear quite regularly. I commissioned a bespoke light tan gator strap a few days back for it so the Casa Fag strap is no issue. It is not small at all, in fact I find it a tad long. But I have always preferred vintage watch sizes even though I have a large wrist. The Tribute case is even thinner than the original Reverso.

Cheers,

B
post #15752 of 34091
RAYZ-ACE - very classy. and like dino said, its only a matter of time....
post #15753 of 34091

Thank you :), i'm very happy with it, i dont expect to have many watches, but i wouldn't mind another one some day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

^

Congrats and enjoy it.  It might be your first watch...but once you get bitten by the bug...there is a second, third, fourth etc.smile.gif

 

:), i actually did look into vintage watches, but i'm not the most knowledgeable about watches and wouldn't know what to look for to ensure it was good condition or authentic, but thanks I'll def check Ermeto next time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ B ~ View Post


It's a good start. Kudos!
Vintage Movados are pretty cool if you collect vintage. Check out the Ermeto purse watch.

 

Thank you :) , i wanted a watch that would age well, and i could wear for both casual and dressy 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


RAYZ-ACE - very classy. and like dino said, its only a matter of time....
post #15754 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ B ~ View Post


Hi Dino,
No worries about a difference in opinion or taste. We can all agree to disagree, especially on a topic as subjective as watches. Actually from much of what you've written I actually think we have pretty similar aesthetic tastes, but differ only on opinions on technical issues. For example, like you, I prefer tank or tonneau shaped watches for dress as well, as they are more interesting.
Likewise with you, I find myself unimpressed by the majority of current VCs, even the Metier d'Árt collection. For enamel dials from European watch brands, I prefer Van Cleef watches which are made by Agenhor. The 1955 left me feeling the vintage cal 1003 watches were made much better, and the 1962 is quite ugly imho.
The Toledo dial is also a little busy, but the case is just so voluptuous, rekindling the image of the old Cioccolatone.
If you think vintage VCs were daring (which they were!), look at Rolex's vintage output. It makes their current models look utterly staid and unadventurous.
Oh no, I understand that the Privee Collection is finished to a higher standard and was marketed as their marquee pieces. I checked out a friend's mono-poussoir with the THA movement and thought it was nice, but that I would rather have other watches for the money. I have a Cartier with the Piguet movement (though not CPC) and it is, suffice to say, badly made and finished. I think there are still several brands apart from Lange and Patek that could exceed Cartier.
As for Cartier servicing, seems it is a lot cheaper in the States. In Asia, it can run 2 to 3 times the amount you mentioned. I was quoted the price you mentioned to change the battery on my Cartier quartz travel clock!
I handled the Altiplano with the subdial at 4 o clock, but disliked it for the huge 43mm case and some imperfections on the dial printing. I find the latter unacceptable on a watch of this price level. Also played with the Double Jeu and some of their öne-off piece uniques, but just find their designs a little gauche. I agree with you that several other brands produce gaudy designs. But Piaget just seems to only produce ugly watches. Of course this is my opinion. I think their movement finishing is fine for the price but when I buy a watch, the dial matters just as much.
Of course, the AP 2120 was a special product made just for the ref 15202, so I figured they would put in more effort. It is also more "in-house" now, if that matters.
Thank you! I love the Reverso 1931 and it is one of the watches I wear quite regularly. I commissioned a bespoke light tan gator strap a few days back for it so the Casa Fag strap is no issue. It is not small at all, in fact I find it a tad long. But I have always preferred vintage watch sizes even though I have a large wrist. The Tribute case is even thinner than the original Reverso.
Cheers,
B

 

Hi B,

 

VC's Metier d'Árt collection has never really been of much interest to me.  I like the case of the Toledo, but I find it too large in its current form.  The smaller size old manual wind Carree/Toledo from the 1990s, or even the automatic time only version that followed had better proportions IMHO. 

 

Interesting that you have a NON-Collection Privee Cartier with a Piguet movement that you feel is poorly finished.  I have only seen a few models of NON Privee Cartier's with Piguet movements, and as each was significantly less than $7,000, their finish was good but not great.  They were certainly not up to the level of their Privee watches or their new Fine Watchmaking Collection.  The Tortue mono-poussoir, was a pricey watch when new.  However, the single pusher chronograph movement is brillant.  A friend of mine has one and I've always thought it was a great chronograph.  It is also one of the few Cartiers that a few brand name snobs I've known (who usually only buy PP, AP, and VC) have said they intend to track one down at some point to add to their collections.  However, I can understand if its not your taste and there are other watches you find more appealing.  Sticking with major brands (not independents), I'll agree that yes, I maybe AP can and does exceed some of Cartier's high end models...most other brands at the high end I find are about the same.

 

I've looked at several Piagets and never seen any that had problems with their dials, even when using a loupe.  However, in that price range as you said there is not excuse for a watch with a poorly printed dial.  The 43mm Altiplano is too wide and flat for my taste.  It starts to look like a pancake on a strap.  The Double Jeu is fun, but not my taste.  I still think the manual wind Altiplano with or without the subdial for seconds represents a great value for its cost...and I would choose one over a similarly styled JLC...but thats personal choice.  I also think their Emperador Toubillon is a beautiful watch with an amazing rectangular movement...but again thats just my 2 cents.

 

Glad to hear you are enjoying your 1931 Reverso.  Its my favorite designs of the last few years, and if I were buying a JLC it most liley would be that model.  I've tried it and the case, dial, and the way it wears is perfect.  Its definitely something that I could be very tempted to pick up in the future.

 

Best regards,

Dino 

post #15755 of 34091

1000

post #15756 of 34091
a customer wants to sell this to us. anyone have any idea of the market on it? we dont really deal so much with vintage pieces like this.

thanks.

post #15757 of 34091

^

Vintage stuff can be a tough sell unless its a big name brand.

post #15758 of 34091
looks odd to me...ive never seen a vintage Jaeger watch...they've always been branded just LeCoultre. Id be interested if anyone has any insight into this. When did they go from LeCoultre to JLC? and did they ever produce Jaeger only branded watches.
post #15759 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

^
Vintage stuff can be a tough sell unless its a big name brand.

yeah, i did some investigating, we are going to pass. thanks, dino.
post #15760 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

looks odd to me...ive never seen a vintage Jaeger watch...they've always been branded just LeCoultre. Id be interested if anyone has any insight into this. When did they go from LeCoultre to JLC? and did they ever produce Jaeger only branded watches.

in my investigating, i see they defo did make watches just branded "jaeger."

as to the change over, i once knew all that history, but i forgot. frown.gif

this is from wikipedia. 1937 was the official change to JLC, even though Edmond Jaeger became involved with lecoulture earlier on.
Quote:
Founding
In 1833, Antoine LeCoultre (1803–81) founded a small workshop in Le Sentier, Switzerland, for the manufacture of high-quality timepieces.[1]:10 In 1844, he measured the micrometre (μm) for the first time and created the world's most precise measuring instrument, the millionometer, capable of measuring to thousandths of a millimetre.[1]:13 In 1847, LeCoultre developed a system that eliminated the need for keys to rewind and set watches, using a push-piece that activated a lever to change from one function to another.[1]:14 In 1851, he was awarded a gold medal for his work on timepiece precision and mechanization at the first Universal Exhibition in London.[1]:15
[edit]LeCoultre Manufacture
Antoine's son, Elie LeCoultre, desired to control all stages of timepiece production, so in 1866 he transformed his workshop into a manufacture, allowing his employees to pool their expertise under one roof. In 1870, LeCoultre began using mechanized processes to manufacture complicated timepiece movements. Within 30 years, LeCoultre had created more than 350 different timepiece calibers, of which 128 were equipped with chronograph functions and 99 with repeater mechanisms. From 1902 and for the next 30 years, LeCoultre produced most of the movement blanks for Patek Philippe of Geneva.
[edit]Jaeger-LeCoultre
In 1903, Parisian Edmond Jaeger challenged Jacques-David LeCoultre, grandson of Antoine, to manufacture ultra-thin calibers of his design.[1]:21 Out of their relationship emerged a collection of ultra-thin pocket watches, followed by others that eventually, in 1937, officially culminated in the Jaeger-LeCoultre brand.[1]:21 In 1907, French jeweler Cartier, a client of Jaeger's, signed a contract with the Parisian watchmaker under which all Jaeger's movement designs for a period of 15 years would be exclusive to Cartier. The movements were produced by LeCoultre. Also in 1907, the LeCoultre Caliber 145 set the record for the thinnest movement at 1.38 mm.[1]:22 JLC began manufacturing the Atmos clock in 1936 after purchasing the patent from Jean-Leon Reutter, who invented it in 1928. The company was officially renamed Jaeger-LeCoultre in 1937. In 1941, Jaeger-LeCoultre earned the highest distinction from the Neuchâtel Observatory for its tourbillon Caliber 170. In 1982, the Jaeger-LeCoultre museum was established in Le Sentier. In 2009, JLC produced the world's most complicated wristwatch, the Hybris Mechanica à Grande Sonnerie with 26 complications.[2]
post #15761 of 34091
Jaeger was well known for Chronos.
post #15762 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Jaeger was well known for Chronos.

that is very interesting. i hadnt even thought about it, but all the "jaeger" branded models i saw, were chronographs. thanks!
post #15763 of 34091
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post #15764 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


in my investigating, i see they defo did make watches just branded "jaeger."
as to the change over, i once knew all that history, but i forgot. frown.gif
this is from wikipedia. 1937 was the official change to JLC, even though Edmond Jaeger became involved with lecoulture earlier on.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

looks odd to me...ive never seen a vintage Jaeger watch...they've always been branded just LeCoultre. Id be interested if anyone has any insight into this. When did they go from LeCoultre to JLC? and did they ever produce Jaeger only branded watches.

Also what was missed out from your wiki text was this:

 

"Watches sold in North America were sold under the LeCoultre name from 1932 to approximately 1985."

 

So Jaeger-LeCoultre sold watches branded just LeCoultre until mid 80s. The earlier change was just for Europe and other markets.

post #15765 of 34091
Quote:
Originally Posted by point1 View Post

Also what was missed out from your wiki text was this:

"Watches sold in North America
 were sold under the LeCoultre name from 1932 to approximately 1985."

So Jaeger-LeCoultre sold watches branded just LeCoultre until mid 80s. The earlier change was just for Europe and other markets.

thanks for the info. I knew i had seen LeCoultre branded watches long after the 30s haha.
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