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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 686

post #10276 of 37137

So, first of all, in any discussion about the "best" anything, you need to define your criteria. For the best watch brand, my criteria is some combination (in no particular order) of craftsmanship and prestige among WISes. I also tend to filter out some of the way smaller independent watchmakers, mostly on the prestige grounds, since they often seem to lack a certain critical mass of regard among the WIS community.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


well, i wouldnt want this lovely thread to turn into a brand whore convo, even though i likely am one. i like the broad range of watch appreciation here.
that being said, "the big 3" "top" luxury watch brands are usually considered to be;
Patek
Audemars
Vacheron
 


I disagree. I'd put PP and ALS at the same level, with PP being a bit more of the classic pinnacle, and ALS being a bit more of the new comer/challenger. And I don't think Audemars is in the same class as PP or ALS.

 

I also tend to put Vacheron below PP and ALS, though above AP. I do give them some special regard, similar to that which I give to PP and AP -- I sort of view VC as the elder statesman of horology.

 

post #10277 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

I'll be damned. I never thought I'd like a MontBlanc but I kind of dig that. Its certainly unique looking.
Not that unique...

Similar Breguet

MtB
post #10278 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post



 
I should be the one thanking you. I always had a nebulous idea of why I liked the moon phase, but never had to think about it at length or put it in writing. So thanks to you sir--I never woulda found that awesome Jason Heaton article either! 

As far as JLC over Zenith or any other watch, you have to get what you like. I'm gonna tell you about why I like this or that, but at the end of the day you gotta be the one happy about it. I'm starting to rethink how I give advice (aka talk outta my backside) because I really don't want to shit on other peoples choices. After making my comments about IWC for instance, I had to revisit them and look at some of their offerings. Yes, they are modified ETA but some of them arent as expensive as I thought. Do I still think 6-8k is too much to pay for a modified ETA? Yeah! But at the same time I might have spoken too glibly to write off the entire brand in one stroke of the pen. At least Dino was here to give more substance to what I was saying...but yeah I shoulda watched my mouth a bit.

For the record, I like the El Primero's, if it was me making that decision I'd really try to answer this question: 38mm or 42mm and sportier chrono (#1 in your pix) vs dressier chrono (#2 in your pix)? That would require some legwork.

No worries, I appreciate your honesty!! I never would have considered JLC without your advice and they've quickly become one of my favorites. I need to spend a day going to each of the dealers to see each model I'm considering rather than looking at pics on my computer.

I've narrowed my list down to:

JLC Master Chronograph - black dial
JLC Master Calendar
JLC Master Ultra Thin Moon

IWC Portugese Automatic 7-Day - black dial

Zenith El Primero 36,000 VPH - grey or black dial
post #10279 of 37137

It's certainly very interesting to see people's likes and dislikes and the "ranking" that people give to the various brands. 

 

For years people used to call Patek, AP, and VC "The Big Three."    Many years ago VC was considered the best finished and finest of the three.  It also has the distinction of being the oldest continuous watch manuafacturer, having continuously made watches since 1755.  However, in the last 50 years or so that perception has changed and many people see Patek as the finest watch from the big three.  I think each brand has a great deal to offer.  I think maybe on the finishing side of things, Patek may techinally be a bit finer than AP or VC (and I own 2 VC's and Patek isn't really my favorite brand).  However, today all watches are so finely finished that it will not affect time keeping.  Back in the day, the purpose of finishing parts as finely as possible was to reduce friction, which reduced accuracy of a watch.  I think at times AP might fall into second place in the big three due to some of the highly complicated and technical movements they have produced over the years, and maybe also because VC went through a period when they kind of lost their way in terms of having a very disorganized collection, and not having a really recognizable design for a sports watch the way PP and AP did. 

 

As for the Royal Oak, love it or hate it, was the original luxury sports watch in steel.  Once it started to catch on, PP followed with the Nautilus, VC with the 222 (which evolved into the Phideas and then the Overseas), and IWC's Jumbo SL Ingenuir.  It should be noted that the Royal Oak, the Nautilus, and 222 were considered by some as entry level watches for theses brands.  Also, the original RO, Nautilus, and 222 used a very thin JLC movement cal 922, which JLC never used in any of its own watches.  Patek stopped using that movement many years ago and has used in house movements in their Nautiuls for many years...although the original with JLC movement are among the most collectible. 

 

Lange is a great brand, and their quality is said by people far more interested and knowledgeable about watch finishing to be as fine as Patek if not better.  I like their Lange 1, but I find many of their other designs a bit dull.  I've heard from several people F.P. Journe is on par with Lange, but that F.P. Journe tend to have lots of problems and spend a lot of time going back and forth for repairs.

 

JLC and Piaget are probably two of the finest and most under apreciated watch brands.  Both make all of their own movements and have supplied movements to other great brands.  It should also be noted that for some time AP owned 40% of JLC, although they have since sold it or the bulk of it.

 

There are lots of smaller independent brands that make nice watches.  Although, I'd be afraid that some brands are so small that if the founder died, or the company closed, you could have trouble getting service or parts years from now.  Also, since they have a small following the 2nd hand market could be quite weak resulting in poor resale value if you ever choose to sell or trade one.

 

In the end, there are lots of great brands.  Patek, AP, VC, Lange, JLC, and Piaget are held in high regard, but there are plenty of great watches from Rolex, Cartier, IWC, GP, Blancpain, Breguet (which some think is on par wiith the Big Three), Zenith, and a bunch of others.  As I've said before no one watch can be everything to everyone, so luckily there are lots of choices to fit different tastes, needs, and price points.

 

post #10280 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

It's certainly very interesting to see people's likes and dislikes and the "ranking" that people give to the various brands. 

For years people used to call Patek, AP, and VC "The Big Three."   
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Many years ago VC was considered the best finished and finest of the three.  It also has the distinction of being the oldest continuous watch manuafacturer, having continuously made watches since 1755.  However, in the last 50 years or so that perception has changed and many people see Patek as the finest watch from the big three.  I think each brand has a great deal to offer.  I think maybe on the finishing side of things, Patek may techinally be a bit finer than AP or VC (and I own 2 VC's and Patek isn't really my favorite brand).  However, today all watches are so finely finished that it will not affect time keeping.  Back in the day, the purpose of finishing parts as finely as possible was to reduce friction, which reduced accuracy of a watch.  I think at times AP might fall into second place in the big three due to some of the highly complicated and technical movements they have produced over the years, and maybe also because VC went through a period when they kind of lost their way in terms of having a very disorganized collection, and not having a really recognizable design for a sports watch the way PP and AP did. 

As for the Royal Oak, love it or hate it, was the original luxury sports watch in steel.  Once it started to catch on, PP followed with the Nautilus, VC with the 222 (which evolved into the Phideas and then the Overseas), and IWC's Jumbo SL Ingenuir.  It should be noted that the Royal Oak, the Nautilus, and 222 were considered by some as entry level watches for theses brands.  Also, the original RO, Nautilus, and 222 used a very thin JLC movement cal 922, which JLC never used in any of its own watches.  Patek stopped using that movement many years ago and has used in house movements in their Nautiuls for many years...although the original with JLC movement are among the most collectible. 

Lange is a great brand, and their quality is said by people far more interested and knowledgeable about watch finishing to be as fine as Patek if not better.  I like their Lange 1, but I find many of their other designs a bit dull.  I've heard from several people F.P. Journe is on par with Lange, but that F.P. Journe tend to have lots of problems and spend a lot of time going back and forth for repairs.

JLC and Piaget are probably two of the finest and most under apreciated watch brands.  Both make all of their own movements and have supplied movements to other great brands.  It should also be noted that for some time AP owned 40% of JLC, although they have since sold it or the bulk of it.

There are lots of smaller independent brands that make nice watches.  Although, I'd be afraid that some brands are so small that if the founder died, or the company closed, you could have trouble getting service or parts years from now.  Also, since they have a small following the 2nd hand market could be quite weak resulting in poor resale value if you ever choose to sell or trade one.

In the end, there are lots of great brands.  Patek, AP, VC, Lange, JLC, and Piaget are held in high regard, but there are plenty of great watches from Rolex, Cartier, IWC, GP, Blancpain, Breguet (which some think is on par wiith the Big Three), Zenith, and a bunch of others.  As I've said before no one watch can be everything to everyone, so luckily there are lots of choices to fit different tastes, needs, and price points.

superb post. the bold is what i was referring to in my previous posts. its not necessarily a fact, just something that people had considered for a long while. its not to say that it cant change, or that other watch companies cant or dont make watches just as fine. its just something people say, whether or not one agrees is just a matter of taste.

and iirc AP sold their entire stake in JLC.
post #10281 of 37137
To me, the AP RO is a very unique model, as I almost like the original RO as much as I dislike anything RO OS.

My favourite is the original Jumbo, 5402:

AP5402.jpg

which were just paid a pretty good homage by the newly introduced 15202ST

ap15202jumbosihh2012-1.jpg

(though I'd prefer the rotor and white date window of the previous 15202ST)
post #10282 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaplan View Post

To me, the AP RO is a very unique model, as I almost like the original RO as much as I dislike anything RO OS.
My favourite is the original Jumbo, 5402:
AP5402.jpg
which were just paid a pretty good homage by the newly introduced 15202ST
ap15202jumbosihh2012-1.jpg
(though I'd prefer the rotor and white date window of the previous 15202ST)


+1

 

I'm a big fan of the original ROs and I think the new one is 15202ST is a handsome watch.  But I've never liked the Offshore models.
 

 

post #10283 of 37137

I think the best way to put it is: I can see how the RO is interesting, simply just not my steez. Fair enough. ROO on the other hand...OI.

post #10284 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

I think the best way to put it is: I can see how the RO is interesting, simply just not my steez. Fair enough.

+1... I just don't dig it either.... Great post there Dino! Thx.
post #10285 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post

I think the best way to put it is: I can see how the RO is interesting, simply just not my steez. Fair enough. ROO on the other hand...OI.

for me, there are so many different RO/O models out there i cant really paint them with one brush. some i like, some i hate and others im indifferent to. i think if i had a yacht and used it, it would be a cool watch to wear whilst doing my richie rich sporty sportsman activities.
post #10286 of 37137
because im bored. here are some watches i really want.

tumblr_lxhnjpZez21r9y9u3o1_500.jpg
tumblr_lxhnpdoTYv1r9y9u3o1_400.jpg
tumblr_lxhnke6x6U1r9y9u3o1_500.jpg
tumblr_lxhnogKFSo1r9y9u3o1_500.jpg
post #10287 of 37137
stitchy you read my mind! I like all of those but especially the ALS and JLC... nice picks (& pix)!! nod[1].gif
post #10288 of 37137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

stitchy you read my mind! I like all of those but especially the ALS and JLC... nice picks (& pix)!! nod[1].gif

fistbump.gif we can be "friends" wink.gif
post #10289 of 37137
Thread Starter 
I like the original ROO rubber models - I could never wear them but I like them on their aesthetic merits. Now, the crazier derivations and numerous limited and special editions that came later... some carbon fiber here, horned gator there, green, yellow and red... not a fan
post #10290 of 37137
so these are what are making people turn away from AP then?

to be fair im not a fran of these either, and they appeal to some, but it doesnt change my opinion of AP on the whole.
Warning: ROO evil! (Click to show)
Audemars-Piguet-Royal-Oak-Offshore-Grand-Prix-watch-1.jpg
audemars-piguet-royal-oak-offshore-grand-rix-rose-gold-sihh-2010-thumb-450x440-5326.jpg
AP-ROO-Legacy-7.jpg
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