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The Watch Appreciation Thread - Page 683

post #10231 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

So here is a home to post your pictures of your watches


Breitling, Orient, Alfred Sung.JPG

 

The Orient was purchased in 1991 from a street merchant in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.  Yes, it runs counter-clockwise.

Quite the conversation piece.

 

Ciao !
 

 

post #10232 of 36898

That (eastern) Arabic dial is awesome--i want one now!


Edited by Cylon - 1/30/12 at 12:18pm
post #10233 of 36898

I apologize for the multiple posts on the same subject, however I was receiving an error reporting there was a problem with the server... so, I kept "submitting", finally giving-up after the third "there is a problem submitting to this server".

I guess there wasn't a problem after all.

post #10234 of 36898
In regards to the naysayers of using 'standard' movements, two prime examples of wow.gif watches that use standard / base movements:

Valjoux 7750:

333

Lemania 1354:

332
post #10235 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

thx Cuttingboard.... interesting info in that link and I'm a bit surprised by the data.

it is interesting, but these types of researches/studies are often skewered. often they include only certain brands in the research or what they define as "luxury brand." hard to know what to take away from these things.

for exmaple, this;
Quote:
IWC, Patek Philippe and Zenith remained the 3 most popular luxury watch plans, together gathering 50% of worldwide market share.

is so clearly false its almost laughable. clearly they have left rolex and omega out of the "luxury" market, as those 2 brands hold more market share than likely all 3 mentioned. not saying they are better watches, but as to worldwide searches, and market share they are titans. thus, its hard for me to take these things seriously. its too easy to bend the data and present it as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post


Hi In Stitches,

My father has a limited edition JLC with the original style deployant that you like, and a Lange 1 with the same style deployant.  He bought both watches in 2004, and the comfort level of the deployant has nothing to do with the leather (croc straps) they come on softening up.  He got both on a short strap so the strap fits properly but they just do not fit a lot of people's wrists comfortably, unless removed and reversed to open in the other direction.  That may not be the entire reason for changing the deployant, but it may be part of it.

Yes, IWC does make some of their own movements.  However, many use an ETA or Valjoux 7750 as a base movement.

thanks, interesting info. i do not doubt that comfort had a hand in the change, but they replaced a work of art with a lightweight bland clasp, there had to be a middle ground. not a huge deal, just a little pet peeve of mine.
post #10236 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post

In regards to the naysayers of using 'standard' movements, two prime examples of wow.gif watches that use standard / base movements:
Valjoux 7750: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
333
Lemania 1354: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
332

nothing against buying outside movements. many are wonderful, complex and ultra high end. many are designed for and sold exclusively to the brand that orders that movement. many are also just base movements and are heavily altered after the fact by the brand using them. still, there is a certain appeal, intrigue and sense of pride in a true manufacture movement.
post #10237 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

thx Cuttingboard.... interesting info in that link and I'm a bit surprised by the data.

+1; quite surprised. Source please?
post #10238 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonneker View Post

+1; quite surprised. Source please?

the data is highly suspect. trust me.
post #10239 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonneker View Post

+1; quite surprised. Source please?

In the link above the chart.
post #10240 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon View Post


“Time keeping and construction of calendars are among the oldest branches of astronomy. Up until very recently, no earth-bound method of time keeping could match the accuracy of time determinations derived from observations of the sun and the planets. All the time units that appear natural to man are caused by astronomical phenomena: The year by Earth's orbit around the Sun and the resulting run of the seasons, the month by the Moon's movement around the Earth and the change of the Moon phases, the day by Earth's rotation and the succession of brightness and darkness.” (http://www.maa.mhn.de/Scholar/times.html)

We have, by and large, forgotten that connection with nature. Insofar as the calendar system is considered a standalone abstract entity, the moon phase is considered an anachronism. I guess that’s precisely what appeals to me: that connection with the history of timekeeping from its earliest beginnings. Nowadays we may get excited about a special edition in platinum, or debate the virtues of plastic or sapphire crystal, patina on a dial, or an increase in case size from 40mm to 42mm; but that little moon reminds me of so much more.

Anyway, this all probably sounds really douchey and pedantic so I’m gonna stop. Not trying to say YOU MUST LOVE THE MOONPHASE, just trying to explain why I like it biggrin.gif

As a final (and probably simplest) note: I’m Muslim so tracking the lunar calendar remains important to me. I honestly can’t wait to see Ramadan approaching on this little watch of mine.

Great information...thanks.

But what does the moon function on the watch do...is it a moon phase calendar?
post #10241 of 36898
Thread Starter 
As in stitches said, the choice of the universe of brands for this study is dubious at best. It is supposed to focus on "Haute Horlogerie" but the list of brands seems cherry-picked - several are nowhere near "haute" (e.g. Zenith, GP) and numerous brands in the same bracket are not included (e.g. GO, Rolex...)
Quote:
Haute Horlogerie brands tracked: A. Lange & Söhne, Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Breguet, Frank Muller, Girard-Perregaux, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Jaquet Droz, Patek Philippe, Richard Mille, Roger Dubuis, Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantin, Zenith.

Markets analyzed: Brazil, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, United States.

EDIT: so it's a bit clearer now: this specific media kit was meant to be part of SIHH coverage and includes only SIHH brands, so not a bias from the market research firm but a subset of the study for the purpose of SIHH marketing

mediakitwwrsihh2012-120119013747-phpapp02-slide-5-768.jpg
post #10242 of 36898



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post

In regards to the naysayers of using 'standard' movements, two prime examples of wow.gif watches that use standard / base movements:
Valjoux 7750:
333
Lemania 1354:
332


As for Il Destriero Scafusia, that is an watch that cost several hundred thousand dollars, and IWC so throughly revised the 7750 that was used that it is nothing like what one would find even in a 10,000-20,000 IWC  Hell it was hardly a 7750 by that time.  An IWC Double Chonograph has no where near the finishing or amount of modifications that make Il Destriero Scafusia a rather special watch.  In terms of quality, workmanship, and modifications and improvements to a base movement IWC's Double Chrono is more closely related to any 3,000-10,000 watch from a different company powered by a 7750, than it is to II Destriero Scafusia.

 

 The Valjoux 7750 is a good sturdy workhorse.  There is nothing wrong with it, at least when found in a watch within a certain price range.  Personally, for that kind of money Il Destriero Scafusia cost, I don't want a 7750 powering my watch.  As nice as that watch was its value tanked after they were sold, unlike those of many Pateks that either stayed stable or increased in value. 

 

As for Lemania, I'd much rather have a Lemania powering my watch than a Valjoux 7750.  They tend to be less common, and found in better watches like Breget, Patek (their old chronos and perpetual calendar chronograph) and VCs.  Although, I'd pass on a UN.  A friend had one that spent 6-8 months of the first two years of ownership going back for warranty repairs.  My friend was really sorry about making that purchase.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


it is interesting, but these types of researches/studies are often skewered. often they include only certain brands in the research or what they define as "luxury brand." hard to know what to take away from these things.
for exmaple, this;
Quote:
IWC, Patek Philippe and Zenith remained the 3 most popular luxury watch plans, together gathering 50% of worldwide market share.
is so clearly false its almost laughable. clearly they have left rolex and omega out of the "luxury" market, as those 2 brands hold more market share than likely all 3 mentioned. not saying they are better watches, but as to worldwide searches, and market share they are titans. thus, its hard for me to take these things seriously. its too easy to bend the data and present it as fact.
thanks, interesting info. i do not doubt that comfort had a hand in the change, but they replaced a work of art with a lightweight bland clasp, there had to be a middle ground. not a huge deal, just a little pet peeve of mine.


While the old style deployant isn't the most comfortable I've tried on, I agree completely with you about its looks.  I can also say it felt very sturdy and as though its of much higher quality than the current thinner double butterfly styles I've tried more recently. 

 

I also wonder if the change in clasps has anything to do with cutting costs.  When making them out of gold or platinum, a thinner clasp using less gold or platinum costs them less to produce, and they can just call it a new design and not pass any savings onto the consumer, as they aren't going to reduce the price of the watch even though the clasp costs them less.  Although, the cost savings idea is merely speculation on my part.

 

post #10243 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

As in stitches said, the choice of the universe of brands for this study is dubious at best. It is supposed to focus on "Haute Horlogerie" but the list of brands seems cherry-picked - several are nowhere near "haute" (e.g. Zenith, GP) and numerous brands in the same bracket are not included (e.g. GO, Rolex...)
Quote:
Haute Horlogerie brands tracked: A. Lange & Söhne, Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Breguet, Frank Muller, Girard-Perregaux, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Jaquet Droz, Patek Philippe, Richard Mille, Roger Dubuis, Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantin, Zenith.
Markets analyzed: Brazil, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, United States.
EDIT: so it's a bit clearer now: this specific media kit was meant to be part of SIHH coverage and includes only SIHH brands, so not a bias from the market research firm but a subset of the study for the purpose of SIHH marketing Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
mediakitwwrsihh2012-120119013747-phpapp02-slide-5-768.jpg


thanks gdl, i was wondering what the SIHH was getting at, as it seemed some of the brands included were partner brands and others were not, and as you said they clearly cherry picked who they wanted, maybe to hopefully come up with some semi predetermined result, as you said for marketing purposes.

it reminded me of another study i read about a little while back placing, iirc, JLC as the "best" (or some other odd adjective) "luxury" watch. now i love JLC and wear one almost daily, but its no patek or AP.... point being, these surveys and studies touch me off, because they are almost always pointed and they mislead the general public, who inevitably ends up reading these things walking away with absurd notions. /rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Whiile the old style deployant isn't the most comfortable I've tried on, I agree completely with you about its looks.  I can also say it felt very sturdy and as though its of much higher quality than the current thinner double butterfly styles I've tried more recently. 

I also wonder if the change in clasps has anything to do with cutting costs.  When making them out of gold or platinum, a thinner clasp using less gold or platinum costs them less to produce, and they can just call it a new design and not pass any savings onto the consumer, as they aren't going to reduce the price of the watch even though the clasp costs them less.  Although, the cost savings idea is merely speculation on my part.

i wondered if it was about costs, but i had a hard time believing that. at these price points these brands can just up the price to cover such costs, and the public will happily go along. hell, they often raise prices without any changes at all. im kinda stumped as to what the decision process was. likely comfort as mentioned above, but they could have devised a nicer alternative.
post #10244 of 36898
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

[/SPOILER]
now i love JLC and wear one almost daily, but its no patek or AP....

I suppose this is turning into a ranking of watch brands quickly... I end up agreeing with the Watch Snob in general that unless you are esoteric and getting into Philip Dufour territory, A Lange and Patek are probably at the top. I don't know if I would put AP up against them smile.gif JLC might be about equal to AP in my estimation...
post #10245 of 36898
Thread Starter 
The JLC single deployant was famous for being a poor fit on most wrists. It was fairly long and only sat well on wider wrists that could accommodate a long piece of metal like that. Anyone with small wrists would experience a slip to the side of the wrist, so the watch wouldn't sit straight.
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