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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 598  

post #8956 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post


This. If the Swiss Franc goes down, they will keep prices where they are and make even more money.

yes and no. They are not immune to financial pressures. The Swiss government did not decide to peg the Swiss to the Euro for shits and giggles. While they would not reduce prices, they would offer a larger "accomodation" to their retailers and you would see a lot more stuff makes its way to grey market retailers. In 2008, when the economy first hit the fan, an acquaintance purchased a PP and Panerai at two different AR's and both offered him significant discounts (+15%) before he even asked. Before this I never really heard of popular higher end stuff being so easily discounted at AR's. I would expect similar to occur and just a lot more AR's sending stuff to the grey market guys.
post #8957 of 48312
Regarding the Grand Seiko's, here is my take why they don't do so well compared to the Swiss companies:

1) Name. Sorry, but it's true. For the general world public certain brand names conjure up quality + exclusiveness and others don't. Seiko does not conjure up the same catchet as say Rolex, regardless if the quality is the same. I know that in Japan they don't differentiate between a low end Toyota with a Toyota Century, but the rest of the world doesn't think that away; to them Coach is Coach, LV is LV, Hermes is Hermes. And Coach could never be Hermes, and Hermes could never be Coach.

2) Non-mechanical purely movements. The Spring Drive is technically fantastic, but since it utilizes non-mechanical parts, it takes away from its 'perceived purity', which is one of the main selling points of Swiss watches: mechanical purity.

3) Design. Let's be truly honest: other than the Spring Drive movements, the actual design of GS's are rather lacking in terms of style. Many of them look like more expensive, more robust Seiko's... I assume that they have the same designers. The GS logo is IMHO not a good design and the dials seem like well, Seiko versions of Rolex.

I'm not taking anything away from Seiko regarding their achievements with the movement, nor with the case quality, however, the watches will never be real competition against the Swiss unless they change basically everything about the watches to make them more, well Swiss (and German as well, see GO / Lange).
post #8958 of 48312
^^

Grand Seiko does very well both in terms of sales and reputation/review versus German/Swiss counterparts. I doubt they want to change anything, they are what they are and they seem to be very happy about it
post #8959 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post


yes and no. They are not immune to financial pressures. The Swiss government did not decide to peg the Swiss to the Euro for shits and giggles. While they would not reduce prices, they would offer a larger "accomodation" to their retailers and you would see a lot more stuff makes its way to grey market retailers. In 2008, when the economy first hit the fan, an acquaintance purchased a PP and Panerai at two different AR's and both offered him significant discounts (+15%) before he even asked. Before this I never really heard of popular higher end stuff being so easily discounted at AR's. I would expect similar to occur and just a lot more AR's sending stuff to the grey market guys.

Well, there are other variables to consider here: was the AR in financial trouble? Because sometimes that occurs, and they will start giving better discounts from the get go if they are hurting. Also, as aforementioned in this thread certain companies, such as PP have gone up so stratospherically both in the new and pre-owned markets, that I don't foresee them being discounted greatly (Panerai is a different story).
post #8960 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

^^

Grand Seiko does very well both in terms of sales and reputation/review versus German/Swiss counterparts. I doubt they want to change anything, they are what they are and they seem to be very happy about it

I was talking about general perception due to the comment by another poster regarding his reaction that a Seiko cost $5K. Like I said, they would have to change basically everything about the watches to make a dent, worldwide against the Swiss, and they aren't going to do that. In the world of WIS's its a different matter altogether, and GS's are considered icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #8961 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post


I was talking about general perception due to the comment by another poster regarding his reaction that a Seiko cost $5K. Like I said, they would have to change basically everything about the watches to make a dent, worldwide against the Swiss, and they aren't going to do that. In the world of WIS's its a different matter altogether, and GS's are considered icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

263

vs.

253

only a rice boy would pick an NSX ... (because they'd turbo it with forged internals and make 750hp and beat veyrons facepalm.gif)
post #8962 of 48312
NSX to Ferrari analogy is wrong. How many Italian watches are there besides Panerai? Japanese market, final run NSX to used 996 Porsche 911 would be more apt, age and price wise.
post #8963 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

NSX to Ferrari analogy is wrong. How many Italian watches are there besides Panerai? Japanese market, final run NSX to used 996 Porsche 911 would be more apt, age and price wise.

even if you compare it to the 911, the NSX was still undergunned in every category.
i think they sold like only a couple hundred units world wide in the end?
because no one is going to pay $100,000 for a honda.
pricing a seiko at $7000 is like pricing a honda at $100,000.
post #8964 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post

only a rice boy would pick an NSX ... (because they'd turbo it with forged internals and make 750hp and beat veyrons facepalm.gif)

Notwithstanding your mildly racist comment, the fact is that many watch enthusiasts / WIS (not only in Japan, but in other countries too) have a solid level of respect for Grand Seiko. Indeed when I have shown my GS to local watch dealers they are unfailingly complementary on the workmanship.

IMO you seem more interested in the cachet associated with particular watches (which presumably must be Swiss), rather than considerations of how well the watch is designed and manufactured. I love the fact that my GS is objectively a far better watch than 99% of watches I see other people wearing on public transport to work, yet is completely under the radar, due to its conservative design and the Seiko name. If you are a poser, clearly a GS is not the watch for you.
post #8965 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post

pricing a seiko at $7000 is like pricing a honda at $100,000.

People who are buying Grand Seikos just are not care about such a cliché
post #8966 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhall41 View Post


Notwithstanding your mildly racist comment, the fact is that many watch enthusiasts / WIS (not only in Japan, but in other countries too) have a solid level of respect for Grand Seiko. Indeed when I have shown my GS to local watch dealers they are unfailingly complementary on the workmanship.

IMO you seem more interested in the cachet associated with particular watches (which presumably must be Swiss), rather than considerations of how well the watch is designed and manufactured. I love the fact that my GS is objectively a far better watch than 99% of watches I see other people wearing on public transport to work, yet is completely under the radar, due to its conservative design and the Seiko name. If you are a poser, clearly a GS is not the watch for you.

well, if i let the sales figures do the talking... i think the world agrees with what i was saying.
people wont buy the NSX is because when you think of a 100,000 supercar, a honda is the last thing you want.
yes, someone who bought a Carrera S, for about the same price, can acknowledge and respect the NSX for what it is, but there is no way for the overwhelming majority of the people who can afford such luxuries to actually buy the NSX. despite the fact that, it might be a better product.
the same analogy applies to the grand seiko.
post #8967 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post


well, if i let the sales figures do the talking... i think the world agrees with what i was saying.
people wont buy the NSX is because when you think of a 100,000 supercar, a honda is the last thing you want.
yes, someone who bought a Carrera S, for about the same price, can acknowledge and respect the NSX for what it is, but there is no way for the overwhelming majority of the people who can afford such luxuries to actually buy the NSX. despite the fact that, it might be a better product.
the same analogy applies to the grand seiko.

Mate, sales figures mean diddly squat. D&G probably sells more product than Kiton - does than mean, applying your logic, that a D&G suit is better than one from Kiton? Seriously facepalm.gif
post #8968 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhall41 View Post


Mate, sales figures mean diddly squat. D&G probably sells more product than Kiton - does than mean, applying your logic, that a D&G suit is better than one from Kiton? Seriously facepalm.gif

Bud, you are comparing Rolex to D&G and Seiko to Kiton? plain.gif
To not get into a bad discussion regarding this topic, I think what you meant was - your Seiko is a solid piece of engineering that is comparable in quality with similarly priced Rolex and Omega pieces lurker[1].gif
post #8969 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post


Bud, you are comparing Rolex to D&G and Seiko to Kiton? plain.gif
To not get into a bad discussion regarding this topic, I think what you meant was - your Seiko is a solid piece of engineering that is comparable in quality with similarly priced Rolex and Omega pieces lurker[1].gif

I was mocking your argument re the significance of sales figures.

A Seiko is a Seiko, a Rolex is a Rolex, an Omega is an Omega. Nothing wrong with any of them.
post #8970 of 48312

6de6cd47.jpg

 

I REALLY want one of these... so pretty.

 

Orange GMT hand

Sized up from 40 mm to 42 mm

Maximarkers made bigger

Blue lume

 

Exciting new things here.  Expected price tag ~6.5k :(

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