or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 3164  

post #47446 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post
 

 

Thanks! Friends who searched on the eBays of this world mentioned that the asking was USD18K. I think that's way too much, even despite the hype and such.  It's certainly not easy to come by, though the preordered units have been trickling in.

 

So I've heard. I'm working with the AD who got me the Spectre watch to see if we can scare one up. If not, well, I'll just move on :satisfied:

 

Meantime, I'll console myself in other ways...

 


Got a new "James Bond" Nato for it the other day. Makes no sense, really, but I like the look.

post #47447 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarDubaibanker View Post

working hard and saving hard to add these to my collection... Only two watches that really grab me by the balls and say buy me!

Been a closet fan of the Millenary for a while now.

"If I ever won the lottery..."



And that Red Sub on Bond NATO makes all the sense in the world to me, Andy! Much hotness. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif



This is what I wore today .... different Rolex / different NATO:


post #47448 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarDubaibanker View Post

working hard and saving hard to add these to my collection...

Can't go wrong with the RO...but I may be biased  .  

 

 

 

 

The Millenary...not my favorite AP, and I generally like non-round dress watches.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Been a closet fan of the Millenary for a while now.

A friend of mine had the Millenary Star Wheel (Jump hour) which was very cool, and it was the only version I've ever liked.

 

apmill125-1.jpg 

post #47449 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Dial has been redone - and is a very faithful rendition of the original which was quite badly chewed up.  I know purists hate redials, but there is a point at which trying to apply the term "patina" is an absurd stetch and this one was past that point.
I've refurbished lots of old things (cars, homes, boats, etc..) so I don't see why a watch would be any different. Unless we're talking about an important piece of antiquity of course.
post #47450 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post


I'm not sure on the Swedish part, but it is a military piece of some kind from the early forties.  Dial has been redone - and is a very faithful rendition of the original which was quite badly chewed up.  I know purists hate redials, but there is a point at which trying to apply the term "patina" is an absurd stetch and this one was past that point.

I thought that was a vintage pocket watch, re-dialed, turned 90 degrees, with either lugs welded on or in a new case. Handsome piece, wear it in good health!
post #47451 of 48312
^^^ It does look kind of big in the pic, but it's actually around 36mm in diameter, which would make for a tiny pocket watch. ;-)
post #47452 of 48312
 


I'm losing the struggle to keep an open mind......shog[1].gif
post #47453 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Dial has been redone - and is a very faithful rendition of the original which was quite badly chewed up.  I know purists hate redials, but there is a point at which trying to apply the term "patina" is an absurd stetch and this one was past that point.

There is a difference between patina/condition that is worthy of maintaining "as is" versus what you described as chewed up.  Once something is past a certain point in terms of condition, even if there is a loss of value or even if purists hate redials/restorations etc...it makes a lot more sense to restore it or have a redial done than to have something in terrible condition simply to say its original.  Not to mention, if parts of the dial were flaking off or if it had damage like water spots, its value would probably already be rather compromised even if it were original.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

I've refurbished lots of old things (cars, homes, boats, etc..) so I don't see why a watch would be any different. Unless we're talking about an important piece of antiquity of course.

Watches really are not the same as homes or cars.  You can refurbish a home and easily increase its value (there are tv shows about flipping homes for profit).  You can restore a car that was in tired shape, or not running, and its value will increase (that being said generally an all original, low mileage, show quality car will be worth more than a restored one).  Again there are tv shows about people restoring and flipping cars for profit.   With watches, a huge part of its value is tied into the dial being original.  Its often why vintage watches from Patek, AP, and VC (even on basic models that may be under $10K) often do not have dials restored or redone, even if over the years they developed spots or other blemishes on the dials.  Generally, only dials in terrible condition on those watches will be replaced, redone, or restored because by doing so one would make the watch less valuable, and less desirable to many collectors.  But as stated before, there is a difference between patina and poor condition that has already significantly compromised an item's value and beauty and probably should be replaced, redialed, restored, etc. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

I'm losing the struggle to keep an open mind......shog[1].gif

IMHO, its the only time they made good use of both that complication and that case.  The Millenary was always my least favorite collection from AP.  

post #47454 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

There is a difference between patina/condition that is worthy of maintaining "as is" versus what you described as chewed up. Once something is past a certain point in terms of condition, even if there is a loss of value or even if purists hate redials/restorations etc...it makes a lot more sense to restore it or have a redial done than to have something in terrible condition simply to say its original. Not to mention, if parts of the dial were flaking off or if it had damage like water spots, its value would probably already be rather compromised even if it were original.

Watches really are not the same as homes or cars. You can refurbish a home and easily increase its value (there are tv shows about flipping homes for profit). You can restore a car that was in tired shape, or not running, and its value will increase (that being said generally an all original, low mileage, show car will be worth more than a restored one). Again there are tv shows about people restoring and flipping cars for profit. With watches, a huge part of its value is tied into the dial being original. Its often why vintage watches from Patek, AP, and VC (even on basic models that may be under $10K) often do not have dials restored or redone, even if over the years they developed spots or other blemishes on the dials. Generally, only dials in terrible condition on those watches will be replaced, redone, or restored because by doing so one would make the watch less valuable, and less desirable to many collectors. But as stated before, there is a difference between patina and poor condition that has already significantly compromised an item's value and beauty and probably should be replaced, redialed, restored, etc.
There are those who attempt to monetize watches as if they were an investment asset. I'm not one of those people. I consider watches to be personal property (like cars, boats, etc..) and while that do have some value they do not rise to the level of an investment vehicle. With rare exception, the only people profiting off watches are manufacturers and dealers.
post #47455 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

There are those who attempt to monetize watches as if they were an investment asset. I'm not one of those people. I consider watches to be personal property (like cars, boats, etc..) and while that do have some value they do not rise to the level of an investment vehicle. With rare exception, the only people profiting off watches are manufacturers and dealers.

But is there any point in destroying or reducing its potential value? Actually for me the reason I purchased it was because of what it is and not what I could do to change that. Besides even if I never sell, I have no idea what my heirs may want or need to do with it. Destroying or reducing its value seems like a waste to me.
post #47456 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

There is a difference between patina/condition that is worthy of maintaining "as is" versus what you described as chewed up.  Once something is past a certain point in terms of condition, even if there is a loss of value or even if purists hate redials/restorations etc...it makes a lot more sense to restore it or have a redial done than to have something in terrible condition simply to say its original.  Not to mention, if parts of the dial were flaking off or if it had damage like water spots, its value would probably already be rather compromised even if it were original.  

 

Indeed.  But there are some 'purists' who blindly cling to originality as a singular, overriding and definitive virtue and react to the phrase "I had my vintage watch re-dialed" as if you had said "I drowned my lab puppy for fun": equal parts disbelief, indignation and outrage.  From such corners I have seen and heard the term "patina" wistfully applied to actual rust.

 

I'm not knocking anyone who wants to keep their watch as-is regardless of the particular state of "is".  But the endless wailing and gnashing of teeth in response to the slightest refurbushment is what keeps me off of most vintage watch forums.

 

Please note that I am not attributing this mindset to anyone here.

post #47457 of 48312
Not too chewed up yet.

post #47458 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcam8 View Post

Not too chewed up yet.


NICE!!!
post #47459 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

But is there any point in destroying or reducing its potential value? .
This clock, the Duc D'Orléans Breguet Sympathique, was a complete mess, inside and out before it was painstakingly refurbished. Its value doesn't seem to have been affected as its auction price suggests. But more importantly, it now has the appearance that the maker had intended when he created the piece. I'm sure that Abraham-Louis Breguet was sad to see his creation in such a dilapidated state and smiled upon seeing its wonderful restoration.

post #47460 of 48312
It's not as simple as self appointed purists decrying any and all redialing no matter the circumstances.

The problem is that most redial jobs are horrible, and definitely do not fall under the umbrella of "restoration". That Breguet was restored (not "refurbished") by a specialist who was likely partly/wholly museum trained. Not the same as your usual redialer. And the price it achieved reflects that in part.

For your usual redial however... Original materials/methods are not used. Printing is blurry, or off centre. Gloss vs matte finishes. Smudged text. Lines are not fine. Lume plots are messy. etc etc etc

To make it worse the people who actually do the redials don't usually even have a point of reference. How many "reference dials" do you think a redialer has? How will he/she know whether a Ranchero dial is matte/glossy? The exact shade of white, or silver? The idiosyncrasies of 60s IWC dial fonts? "T < 25" and/or "Swiss Made"? Or even the size of a lume plot?

When you actually know what a dial should look like (like I guess most purists do, or think they do), the vast majority of redials are essentially - to use a technical-ish term - homages. Inspired by, mimicking the original, basically identical to the untrained eye, but not the same - sometimes not even close.

And so the value correspondingly falls. Unfortunately there is a negative halo effect, and even the good redials get caught up.

I see no problem with that, makes perfect sense to me.
Edited by apropos - 12/6/15 at 9:08pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
This thread is locked  
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...)