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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 3064  

post #45946 of 48312
Watchmaking involves craftsmanship, and watches can have artisanal qualities, but they're not art.

Art has something to say.
post #45947 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Watchmaking involves craftsmanship, and watches can have artisanal qualities, but they're not art.

Art has something to say.

My GF quadruple tourbillion says, "Suck it, plebs!"
post #45948 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHedonist View Post
 

 

You know, I'm questioning whether I'd really want to think about moving from one watch to another as something that can be considered an "upgrade." ...

 

It stands that

 

5) High-end watches cannot be "upgraded"

Interesting post.  There are lots of high end watches out there and most are pieces produced serially in the tens of thousands per year.  I'm not sure if something produced in large numbers can be compared to art.  DaVinci didn't make 10,000 Mona Lisas.  Yes you can get into lithographs, prints etc., but when most people discuss famous art they speak of the original items.

 

I disagree with the idea that high-end watches cannot be upgraded.  We might prefer the earlier models, but the newer models almost always offer improvements. I happen to prefer my roughly 20 year old Rolex 16520 Daytona over my modern 116520 Daytona.  I find the symmetric dial more aesthetically pleasing, the small lum markings more elegant, the subdials with black or white easier to read at a glance than silver ones, and I appreciate that it has more hand workmanship and was made in smaller numbers.  However, the modern version has a longer power reserve, more lum on the dial and hands so its easier to read in low light situations, it has solid end links rather than hollow clam shell end links, it has a solid steel bracelet (rather than hollow links), a machined clasp rather than a stamped steel clasp, and a movement that is supposedly easier to service, and from sometime after 2005 they have blue parachrom springs.  For practical use and ruggedness they definitely upgraded the watch, even though I prefer my older previous version.  With all the  improved/upgraded parts I think its hard to assert that high end watches cannot be upgraded.  

 

In addition, collector friends of mine that are in the business and who have owned vintage and new pieces from VC, PP, AP, Rolex etc, have said that all the claims of the old watches being made better, to higher standards, and having movements with a higher level of finishing are complete non-sense.  We may appreciate and adore the beauty and charm of older pieces, but the new pieces are significantly improved in terms of finish and are of higher quality.

 

Its fine to prefer the prior models, I know I often do, but upgrades exist regardless of price range and brand.   That being said, as long as we enjoy our watches that is what matters.  Some folks want the latest models, others prefer previous models...there is no wrong answer.  

post #45949 of 48312
Wearing this one today. While it's only quartz, it was my first ever top notch watch, bought as a Christmas present for me by my sister (who we nearly lost to Ovarian Cancer a few years back), so it's precious to me. Plus blue is my wife's favourite colour:



Haven't seen too many pics of yours, @ShawnBC.
post #45950 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

Wearing this one today. While it's only quartz, it was my first ever top notch watch, bought as a Christmas present for me by my sister (who we nearly lost to Ovarian Cancer a few years back), so it's precious to me. Plus blue is my wife's favourite colour:
 

Great story and a very nice entry into the world of watches.  When I was younger I loved watches, cars, clothing etc that were black. However, as I matured, blue has become my favorite color for watch dials, cars, and clothing.  There is something very deep and beautiful about a dark blue dial.  

 

PS...nothing wrong with having a high quality quartz in your collection.  I like having my Oysterquartz for its ruggedness, its looks and because I can throw it on in a hurry and not have to worry about setting the time if it hasn't been worn in a while.  :cheers:

post #45951 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

It doesn't matter what we think.  Year after year I've seen so many people on other forums post incorrect predictions about what Rolex will release at Basel.  Only Rolex knows for sure what they will offer in 2016.  If you would prefer a DJ that is 1mm smaller, all you can do is wait and see (and maybe pray). 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


It’s just a matter of time before the 32XX movements replace their 31XX counterparts across the range; the date-only 3235 is already in service with the Pearlmaster 39. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been deliberately limited to one expensive niche model at the start to allow for production refinements before ramping up the output for bigger-selling models.

IMO, the 1 mm difference isn’t that big of a deal either, though it’s a step in the right direction. What I find more significant is that the proportions are a definite and noticeable improvement — especially with the bezel. It’s a safe bet that there’s a Datejust II replacement on the way with a similar profile.

When will this happen? Well, considering that Rolex managed to keep a lid on releasing a completely new movement for 2015 — despite all the people, equipment and documentation that would certainly have been involved with change — it’s a waste of time to even speculate on something as comparatively minor as a model update.

In any case, a 3235 update is coming sooner or later, and if you’re annoyed at the thought of having the present version before this even happens, then you probably aren't ever going to be satisfied with a Datejust II. Though if you’re really keen on having a big DJ right now, you could wear one at essentially no cost in the meantime by buying secondhand and selling it whenever the new one becomes available. smile.gif

But why not just wait for what you really want? It sounds like you already know that the other one's going to be a substitute.

 

So I've been trying to figure out what my third timepiece should be (to go with my BLNR & IWC 3239). I'm trying to limit myself to 3-4 quality 'pieces for 2 main reasons; first, I'd prefer to wear my watches fairly regularly in rotation & second, I need to start putting more of my disposable income into college funds for my 3 young'ns.

 

I'm looking for a 'dress-casual' watch for my next 'piece & I've been literally all over the map wrt to my decision-making including a Reverso TT1931 (doesn't fit my round wrist well), a JLC MUT 39mm (a little too boring IRL), a JLC MC (prefer the older 40.5mm model versus the current 39mm), a Cartier Tank MC (a bit too fancy), & a Panerai 512 (a little too big at 42mm). 

 

The DJII has been on my list for awhile, however as Belligero posted I just find the bezel to be a bit too large on the current model. Also, from what I understand the DJII is among the Rolex w/ the lowest resale value? It would be much easier to wait if I knew how long the wait would be!

post #45952 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

Wearing this one today. While it's only quartz, it was my first ever top notch watch, bought as a Christmas present for me by my sister (who we nearly lost to Ovarian Cancer a few years back), so it's precious to me. Plus blue is my wife's favourite colour:
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Haven't seen too many pics of yours, @ShawnBC.

 

Very nice! I think yours is the same ref. number as mine, right (2541.80)?

 

And you're right! Since it's acquisition, this watch has become my most used timepiece, but I failed to post pictures on here! I remember a conversation not too long ago stating that "the same people always posting different pictures of the same watch" was annoying! :lol:

 

I'll try to snap some pictures for you this week!

post #45953 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Great story and a very nice entry into the world of watches.  When I was younger I loved watches, cars, clothing etc that were black. However, as I matured, blue has become my favorite color for watch dials, cars, and clothing.  There is something very deep and beautiful about a dark blue dial.  

PS...nothing wrong with having a high quality quartz in your collection.  I like having my Oysterquartz for its ruggedness, its looks and because I can throw it on in a hurry and not have to worry about setting the time if it hasn't been worn in a while.  cheers.gif

Thanks Dino smile.gif I have a few quartz watches, two good ones (that Omega and a Raymond Weil) and a beater, cheapo one (a Stührling GMT for traveling with). I don't mind the odd quartz.

Now that Rolex Oysterquartz you mention...now that's one I really wouldn't mind getting one day... wink.gif
post #45954 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnBC View Post

Very nice! I think yours is the same ref. number as mine, right (2541.80)?

And you're right! Since it's acquisition, this watch has become my most used timepiece, but I failed to post pictures on here! I remember a conversation not too long ago stating that "the same people always posting different pictures of the same watch" was annoying! lol8%5B1%5D.gif

I'll try to snap some pictures for you this week!

Feel free to annoy me with pics wink.giflol8[1].gif

Yep, same watch. Mine was made in '99 but bought new (by my sister) in 2006 from a local AD (so it had been sitting on the shelf there for 7 years!) Apart from some minor swirlies on the clasp, it still looks like new, I'm proud to say.
post #45955 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post


Feel free to annoy me with pics wink.giflol8[1].gif

Yep, same watch. Mine was made in '99 but bought new (by my sister) in 2006 from a local AD (so it had been sitting on the shelf there for 7 years!) Apart from some minor swirlies on the clasp, it still looks like new, I'm proud to say.

 

I bought mine used. In good condition, but definitively pre-loved! Suffice to say, it puts an end to the fear of making the first scratch on the watch! :fonz:

 

Speaking of which, do you know how I could find out the fabrication date? Is there a way to enter a code number on Omega's website to obtain more details about the matter?

post #45956 of 48312
Check the serial number on the bottom of the relevant lug and then go to this link here (and scroll down) - http://www.clockmaker.com.au/rolex_serial_numbers.html

There's no doubt other such places to check if you Google it.
post #45957 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

Check the serial number on the bottom of the relevant lug and then go to this link here (and scroll down) - http://www.clockmaker.com.au/rolex_serial_numbers.html

There's no doubt other such places to check if you Google it.

 

Thank you very much! I guess mine was made in 1998, since it's in between 1998's 56 mil and 1999's 59.8 mil!

post #45958 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

but when most people discuss famous art they speak of the original items.

Is it the oil, canvas and frame that make the Mona Lisa, or the idea itself brought to material fruition by the toil of man for no reason more primary than that it be enjoyed (and perhaps net the maker a few shekels in the process)?

For every watch there was a first model, but that it was replicated does not take away from the strength in reflection of that original concept's execution.

Yes, the only valid opposition to my assertion would have to illustrate that high end watches are more a matter of practicality than a subjective emotional attachment to a given material form. (Or a better definition for art.)

I am sure it is for some. But I doubt for many gracing these good pages.
post #45959 of 48312
Hmmm. Undoubtedly a lot of this has gone way over my head, and to be clear I would never assert that high-end watches are in any way practical. But for the way that most people would interpret and apply the term "upgraded", I'd say that watches... can be.

But hey, all that I really know for certain is that if I had some more shekels myself, I'd certainly enjoy spending 'em on more watches.
post #45960 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGotId View Post

 

The DJII has been on my list for awhile, however as Belligero posted I just find the bezel to be a bit too large on the current model. Also, from what I understand the DJII is among the Rolex w/ the lowest resale value? It would be much easier to wait if I knew how long the wait would be!

If you are not in a hurry you can always wait and see what happens with the DJII.  If you don't see what you are looking for after Basel, perhaps you should look into a Milgauss.  If you don't need a date, at 39 mm it has IMHO better proportions than the current 41mm DJII, it has a similar appearance to a DJ, but with a few other details that may make it more interesting to some people.   Out of the others you mentioned, my favorite is the JLC 1931, but I know its flat case back doesn't sit well on some wrists.  Good luck with your journey.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHedonist View Post


Is it the oil, canvas and frame that make the Mona Lisa, or the idea itself brought to material fruition by the toil of man for no reason more primary than that it be enjoyed (and perhaps net the maker a few shekels in the process)?

For every watch there was a first model, but that it was replicated does not take away from the strength in reflection of that original concept's execution.

Yes, the only valid opposition to my assertion would have to illustrate that high end watches are more a matter of practicality than a subjective emotional attachment to a given material form. (Or a better definition for art.)

I am sure it is for some. But I doubt for many gracing these good pages.

Personally, art is far from my area of expertise and to be honest I'm not really sure what makes the Mona Lisa special.  It's not a painting that really does anything for me. 

 

While your art analogy is interesting, and there are no upgrades in the art world, there are upgrades in the watch world.   But upgrades don't make the previous models irrelevant or worthless.  As we have all seen in the Patek world  (and sometimes the Rolex world) the often times older models develop quite a following and can jump up in value significantly.  So whether a person prefers an "Upgraded" model or a previous model, there really isn't a wrong choice...just a different choice. 

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