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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2940  

post #44086 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

Indies offer interesting designs, and with some small companies, there is potential for input from the buyer and some people like that the individual for which the company is often named might work on your watch.  

 

I admire the work of several independents, but there are also downsides such that I tend to favor larger more recognized brands.  With a really small company, depending on how specialized the movement is, parts could become difficult or impossible to obtain if the company goes bankrupt or the main watchmaker/owner dies.  If its a very complicated piece, the number of places or people that could service it or make parts for it if necessary is quite limited and the cost would be quite high.  Patek, AP, VC have all been around for something roughly 140-260 years depending on the company and they will all work on any watch they have ever made regardless of its age.  Its nice to know that if you invest in a high end time piece that the manufacturer will be around to support you with service and parts.  Other companies if they are part of larger corporations (Richemont, LVMH, Swatch) have the financial ability to provide long term parts and service availability.  

 

In addition, with lesser known brands there is often a very low resale value, or they can be impossible to sell, except at a fire sale pricing.  I know people here often say one should not worry about resale, but for people who tire of watches quickly and like to try different brands it can be very difficult to unload.  One pre-owned watch store in my area won't buy anything unless its from  Patek, AP, VC, Lange, Rolex, and Cartier.  The owner said, yes there are lots of great brands but the market and interest (at least in my region) is so weak for them that he won't even make a low ball offer on other brands. 

 

Each buyer has to decide what is right for himself.  Cheers!

 

This.

 

A few stats from a not-so-lower-end "independent" - Greubel Forsey. 

 

They've been around for about 10 years, and produce only around 80-100 watches a year.  Keep in mind, these are ultra-complicated quadruple tourbillons or specially commissioned pieces that involve microsculptures, and Stephen Forsey says they've been able to move every single piece they've made every year despite the hefty price tag.  Might not be your cup of tea given some of their design choices, but it's someone else's cup of tea.  


So there are close to a thousand GFs out there given their ten year run.  And in that time frame they have only seen THREE GFs come back to them for service.  One of those included a piece from a collector in HK who just stopped by a pop-up watch workshop that GF organized; the watchmaker had to kind of beg the collector to take the watch in for service as he identified a few potential items of concern after taking a look.

 

I'm not sure where the other GFs are kept, if they are even worn, or if they're sitting in vaults somewhere; Stephen Forsey and his team say that they are ready to service any watches sent to them via their dealer network, but they will have to be serviced in Switzerland given the level of complications.  And I'm not so sure they are staffed up to handle a "deluge" of GFs to be serviced, if ever that happens.  

 

 Just some anecdotes to support @Dino944's thoughts above.

post #44087 of 48312
Very interesting inputs from you guys. 😊

Like most, I started out with brands that have good resale value like Pams, Rollies, IWCs etc (a very good advise from a veteran collector who told me it will be easier on my wallet once I am ready to move on to others).

Initially drawn towards Urwerk and FPJ by their radical designs and movements - that was when their pricing was not stratospheric. (Once in awhile I do kick myself for not going in earlier).

As I learn more (mostly through lurking in watch specific forums) my curiosity extend towards smaller but yet respected indie makers.

Till todate, yet to own anything from them but as pointed out, the preowned pricing for them is miserable but give a very good opportunity for enthusiasts to pick around. 😊

I agreed with Speake Marin love/hate reactions - love the Serpentine but others don't really speak to me.

As for Habring, I believe (if not all) of their movements are modified ones from bigger brands. Perhaps this will mitigate the risk of serviceability in the future?
post #44088 of 48312
Had to say good bye to my white dial 116520 Daytona last week. Will post some pics of my new incoming Swiss beauty icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #44089 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepp View Post


As for Habring, I believe (if not all) of their movements are modified ones from bigger brands. Perhaps this will mitigate the risk of serviceability in the future?


It certainly doesn't hurt.  I'm not familiar with the exact modifications but in general I would think this would make things a bit easier.  

 

I've met quite a few watchmakers at various functions and several noted that unless you're dealing with very high, very specific in-house complications, a master watchmaker can way more things than they're often given credit for. 

 

If you found a breguet pocketwatch that needed restoration you could get it done, it might be expensive but you could get it done.  The same should be said about an independant today.  The caveat being perhaps if it has a lot of silicon parts those might be hard to replace.  This is why several of the current greats including Kari Voutilainen and FP Journe don't use silicon.  (Conversely, they might be easy to replace with advancements in production and/or 3d printing) 

post #44090 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepp View Post

As for Habring, I believe (if not all) of their movements are modified ones from bigger brands. Perhaps this will mitigate the risk of serviceability in the future?

Dino's comments are very good ones regarding small independents and service down the road. Rather than quote him (I think he's blocked me for some reason--probably because I call out blatant and incessant navel-gazing by certain others...even as recently as today), I'll build on what he said.

Assuming that the base movement comes from a larger, well-established brand, yes, there is a likelihood that parts will be available for smaller boutique independents. Additionally, there should be service know-how related to that movement, either from that larger house or from a well-regarded independent watch repairer. However, the risk is that you're assuming the larger brand will allow their folks to service a watch that isn't theirs, even though it may have their movement at its heart. Also, as many of these independent brands use the base movement as a foundation and then heavily modify them, you may find that the resulting movement only shares some DNA with the original movement, and thus many parts or modules may not readily have parts available in the future should the independent maker close up shop.

That said, some independents are worth that risk, especially if you are buying for love and not investment. Additionally, even if the maker no longer exists, you can always have unique parts repaired/fabricated, but it will be at a very steep price.

I'm with you, though...I have several watches from major brands, but my real desire is to acquire a couple from independents. Someday an FPJ will be in my sights.

Post script: As soon as I got done writing this, I saw that @tigerpac beat me to the answer, with a more useful and eloquent response.
Edited by gopherblue - 6/8/15 at 9:30am
post #44091 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel28 View Post

Had to say good bye to my white dial 116520 Daytona last week. Will post some pics of my new incoming Swiss beauty icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

Yeeesssss!!!!

post #44092 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel28 View Post

Had to say good bye to my white dial 116520 Daytona last week. Will post some pics of my new incoming Swiss beauty icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

Let's see it!

post #44093 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopherblue View Post


Post script: As soon as I got done writing this, I saw that @tigerpac beat me to the answer, with a more useful and eloquent response.

 

@gopherblue Oh I don't know about more useful or eloquent but thanks!

 

Also, I'd certainly recommend getting an FP Journe!

post #44094 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post

Yeeesssss!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

Let's see it!

hopefully towards the end of this week!
post #44095 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpac View Post

@gopherblue
 Oh I don't know about more useful or eloquent but thanks!

Also, I'd certainly recommend getting an FP Journe!

I should have looked out for you at the Journe event last week. I was the tall guy in the brown SC with a beard and black glasses.
post #44096 of 48312
Hanging out this weekend...hoover dam and grand Canyon



post #44097 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

 

I'm not sure where the other GFs are kept, if they are even worn, or if they're sitting in vaults somewhere; Stephen Forsey and his team say....

 

I can tell you that there have been a couple sitting in my local AD for a very long time indeed.  But it does mean I get to play with them.

 

 

But you'd have to be a very particular kind of rich dude to buy one, I think.  Either very impulsive and whimsical, or just a long way down your list of desirables.

 

My amateur opinion on indies is quite positive, though.  Firstly, of course not all indies are small - Rolex, the king of watch brands.  Breitling another with big brand presence.  But even with smaller ones, I think it's just a matter of balancing your risk - whether depreciation or long-term support - against the price bracket and the enjoyment you'll get from it.  I love my Stowa, with an ETA movement that will be supported forever, and a price that makes it easy to digest either way.  Troika's Sinn above, is the next step up and I think the same applies.  Nomos a bit more expensive, and technically in house, but they don't make particularly complicated watches and cost less than a Tag.  

 

So what the heck?  If you can afford a watch, want to keep it and wear it, and are attracted to a particular maker, then buy it.  I can see the residual value issue if you're the kind of person who buys and sells expensive watches.  But if you're just collecting a few that you like, I think the fear of depreciation or servicing for your grandchildren is low on the list of priorities: as long as it's not a watch for which you're having to break the bank.

post #44098 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopherblue View Post


I should have looked out for you at the Journe event last week. I was the tall guy in the brown SC with a beard and black glasses.

 

 

FP Journe knows how to throw an event!  The Jewel Suite in the Palace?! Beautiful.  The Elegantes are pretty interesting ladies pieces

 

PM'ed you a pic of me with the big guy for next time.  Thereby saving the thread a terrible pic :)

post #44099 of 48312
The complexity of these beauties.

One can tell time with his mobile phone and one can choose to do it with his GF....those who don't get it, won't. 😊
post #44100 of 48312

^^ Quite.  For "normal" people, a $100 mechanical Seiko seems like an expensive anachronism (no pun intended...)

 

Anyway, another one for the edge of the bell curve:

 

Moar ceramic Baumgartner magic (Click to show)

 

Moar weird thing (Click to show)

 

 

 

Groupwerk (Click to show)

 

 

I found these things much more awesome in the flesh.  But I can't get past the feeling that this second one looks like a cockroach.  Freaky.


Edited by mimo - 6/8/15 at 10:26am
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Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...)