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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2833  

post #42481 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dachshund View Post

Ha! Too true. But you've got to live a little, right?!

So true my friend!  :fistbump:

post #42482 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault78law View Post

Hey fellas,
Quick question, could someone point me to the "go-to" Rolex AD online or B&M? I have a couple of dealers nearby but am looking to save a couple bucks if I can (and tax!), so long as there's 0% chance I'd be getting a fake. Gift's for my wife. Thanks!

Renault

 

It really depends what you are buying if you could even get some sort of discount.  Precious metals would be more inclined for a discount than any steel model.  As for saving on tax, look out of state for any AD and give them a call.  

post #42483 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault78law View Post

Hey fellas,
Quick question, could someone point me to the "go-to" Rolex AD online or B&M? I have a couple of dealers nearby but am looking to save a couple bucks if I can (and tax!), so long as there's 0% chance I'd be getting a fake. Gift's for my wife. Thanks!

Renault

AuthenticWatches.com
post #42484 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric View Post


AuthenticWatches.com

 

Is AuthenticWatches.com an AD? Last time I checked, they weren't.

post #42485 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnBC View Post
 

 

Is AuthenticWatches.com an AD? Last time I checked, they weren't.

No they are not an AD.  Rolex doesn't let AD's sell their watches through the internet.  I also checked Rolex's AD locator in that region and they are not listed as an AD. 

post #42486 of 48312
So I just got home to find a treat waiting for me. My in-laws announced they were leaving two days earlier than I was expecting. I felt a bit like Dino must have felt when he came home to that Cartier birthday present!!! fing02[1].gif
post #42487 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dachshund View Post

So I just got home to find a treat waiting for me. My in-laws announced they were leaving two days earlier than I was expecting. I felt a bit like Dino must have felt when he came home to that Cartier birthday present!!! fing02[1].gif

:fistbump:  Now that is truly a nice surprise!  

post #42488 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

I don't care...I am buying myself a most excellent present quite soon.  But not from Cartier. :)


CLUE!
post #42489 of 48312

@Renault78law

 

Bobs Watches has a decent reputation. Or there's eBay. I know eBay has a less-than-savory reputation as a place for luxury shopping, but if you budget a full overhaul into the purchase and buy low enough, you'll still get a deal and it'll come back from Rolex looking and working close to new anyway.

 

Problem with online is the lack of manufacturer warranty. So make sure if you buy online you budget in a possible service.

 

But if brand new is your goal, I think it's best to buy from a legit AD and haggle off the requisite 10%

post #42490 of 48312

Essentially sold off all of my watches when I got my 114060 and have worn it every day for basically the last 6 weeks.  I love it a lot, but knew I wanted one other watch on a leather band and had been waiting for Basel before I made a decision. I've been a big Nomos fan having worn a Tangente 35mm for a few years before I went watch crazy this last year.  While I never had an issue with the size before, after wearing mainly 40mm watches it just looks to tiny on me.

 

On the other hand I had an Ahoi Atlantik for 6 months last year and ended up moving it on as it was just a hair to big for me with its monster lugs. I ended up being pretty captivated by the newly announced Metro Datum Urban Black model, 38.5mm with reasonable lugs.  Managed to sell my Tangente today so I called up my dealer and put a deposit on one.  Looking at 3-4 months.  I think it will make a nice counterpart for my Rolex.

 

So hello soon to you:

And goodbye to you:

post #42491 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHedonist View Post
 

@Renault78law

 

Bobs Watches has a decent reputation. Or there's eBay. I know eBay has a less-than-savory reputation as a place for luxury shopping, but if you budget a full overhaul into the purchase and buy low enough, you'll basically get it back from Rolex looking close to new anyway.

 

Problem with online is the lack of manufacturer warranty. So make sure if you buy online you budget in a possible service.

 

Could someone care to explain to me what's the main caveat from buying grey market/outside of an AD? Is it lack of manufacturer warranty per se, or the fact that the manufacturer won't service your watch even if you pay them because of lack of warranty?

 

Let me explain in case my point isn't clear: most manufacturers warranty are 3-5 years at most. Let's say I buy a watch off of the gray market. If it breaks or need a service 10 years from now, I will still need to pay for the repair/maintenance service, right, since the warranty has run out? Or is it that since I can't provide proof of AD purchase, they won't want to service it even against remuneration and I'll need to go to a watch smith?

 

If a watch breaks during the usual warranty period, but wasn't acquired through an AD, do I send it to the manufacturer and simply pay (an astronomic fee) or won't they take it and I need to go see a specialized watch guy?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeis View Post
 

Essentially sold off all of my watches when I got my 114060 and have worn it every day for basically the last 6 weeks.  I love it a lot, but knew I wanted one other watch on a leather band and had been waiting for Basel before I made a decision. I've been a big Nomos fan having worn a Tangente 35mm for a few years before I went watch crazy this last year.  While I never had an issue with the size before, after wearing mainly 40mm watches it just looks to tiny on me.

 

On the other hand I had an Ahoi Atlantik for 6 months last year and ended up moving it on as it was just a hair to big for me with its monster lugs. I ended up being pretty captivated by the newly announced Metro Datum Urban Black model, 38.5mm with reasonable lugs.  Managed to sell my Tangente today so I called up my dealer and put a deposit on one.  Looking at 3-4 months.  I think it will make a nice counterpart for my Rolex.

 

So hello soon to you:

And goodbye to you:

 

As much as I love the Tangeante, it simply doesn't stand a chance against this new release! 

post #42492 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnBC View Post
 

 

Could someone care to explain to me what's the main caveat from buying grey market/outside of an AD? Is it lack of manufacturer warranty per se, or the fact that the manufacturer won't service your watch even if you pay them because of lack of warranty?

 

Let me explain in case my point isn't clear: most manufacturers warranty are 3-5 years at most. Let's say I buy a watch off of the gray market. If it breaks or need a service 10 years from now, I will still need to pay for the repair/maintenance service, right, since the warranty has run out? Or is it that since I can't provide proof of AD purchase, they won't want to service it even against remuneration and I'll need to go to a watch smith?

 

If a watch breaks during the usual warranty period, but wasn't acquired through an AD, do I send it to the manufacturer and simply pay (an astronomic fee) or won't they take it and I need to go see a specialized watch guy?

You can always bring a watch purchased at a gray market shop to the manufacturers service center for service in the future (provided it doesn't have aftermarket bezels, dials, etc, Rolex and I believe Cartier will insist on changing the watch back to factory specs or they will not work on your watch).  The cost of service for an overhaul of a watch is the same regardless of whether you bought it from a gray market shop or an AD.  

 

Purchasing from a gray market shop, there is no guarantee that the manufacturer will honor the warranty.  The manufacturer service center will still do the work, but you will pay out of pocket for the repairs, so its a gamble as to whether you will be covered if something is defective or stops working.  With the cost of parts and overhauls/repairs you can potentially lose any savings you thought you were getting buy purchasing through a gray dealer.

 

I knew a guy years ago who purchased an AP RO chronograph with all the AP box, papers/warranty - from a gray dealer.  About a year into ownership he had a problem with the watch (not sure what happened but it stopped running).  He he brought the watch and the AP warranty which was stamped to the AP boutique and asked that it be sent for service.  Some how they figured out it wasn't purchased from an AP AD or boutique, and it was purchased from a gray dealer (not sure how they discovered it).  Anyway, they told him that they would fix the watch if he wanted, but they would not honor the warranty, and he would have to pay out of pocket.  So he told them to repair it, but it ended up costing him far more than he saved by purchasing from the gray dealer.  He said in the end, due to the expensive repair of the movement he would have saved quite a bit had he bought from an AD and gotten a slightly smaller discount from the AD but had a valid warranty that AP would honor.

 

I've owed I think about 20 good watches over the years.  I only ever had warranty issues with one, but it had 2 issues, both which would have been quite costly.  One was a chronograph mechanism that went crazy...one revolution of the large central mounted seconds hand would cause the minute subdial to leap in 4-6 minute increments.  So in the watch went for an overhaul/repair of the movement...cost to me nothing.  In addition, at one point I noticed on one of the non-removable bracelet links closest to the head of the watch, one side was not as thick as the other.  Maybe others would not have noticed, but I noticed and it annoyed me.  I brought it to the service center, they looked at, and agreed it was off by a bit and so I got a brand new bracelet for it...it cost me nothing.  If you figure the cost of repairing a movement with a manufacturer can easily be $600 for a time only model, and $1,000 or more on chronographs, plus a good steel bracelet and clasp easily run $1,500+ ...well you can do the math...but I've yet to see a gray that was offering a discount that made the price difference between a gray and an AD $2K+ unless it was a very complicated watch.  Granted that only happened to me on one watch...but that $2K+ is IMHO part of another watch. 

 

In addition, years ago people were buying what they thought were new watches from grays, it had boxes, papers etc, but they were getting pre-owned pieces with little wear and tear and told it was just from being tried on in the store and hitting the showcase when taking them out to show people, or they were sometimes getting watches that had been purchased worn for a few days and returned.  I don't think that happens as much today, buyers are more savvy and its easier to weed out the shady sellers because people that get screwed often post about it on various sites.

 

In the end, it really comes down to how risk averse you are...you could buy a gray watch and be fine...but if you are unlucky the savings you thought you received can easily be lost.  In addition, I've usually been able to negotiate a decent deal on most pieces, enough that the difference between the AD price and the gray isn't enough to get me to risk it...YMMV. 

post #42493 of 48312

Thank you for the clear explanation @Dino944, I've been aware of the AD vs. gray market debate before but never took the time to fully appreciate it's pros and cons.

 

With that in mind, both the AD and gray market watch will stand equal if bought a couple of years used (at least, old enough so that the original manufacturer warranty has expired). No matter if the original owner acquired it through AD or gray market, you'll have to pay for repairs and service if warranty is up, right? Though with an AD bought watch, you'd get a clearer service history of said watch - does this add any value to you?

 

*sorry for all of those questions, I'm currently thinking of upgrading my future watch purchases, so it now becomes relevant. Didn't really cared when buying lower end Seiko and Victorinox, but when dealing with Oris, Omega and up, the gamble is bigger.

 

EDIT* then there's always the problem of location. I often shop online on gray market websites not because I really think I'd save in the long run, but mostly because I don't live in a big metropolitan city. The biggest watch brands I've got access to are Seiko (lower tier only), Citizen, Bulova, Victorinox and Tissot. I guess that when I'll be planning bigger purchases, I'll need to factor in a small trip to the nearest 'big' city (Montreal).

post #42494 of 48312
Let me add in my 2 cents here, as I have 10 good watches in my collection, 7 of which were bought on the grey market (albeit w/ stamped warranties from ADs). I've had problems with only one of the grey watches (losing about 15 seconds a day) - walked it over to the VC boutique, they honored the warranty (stamped by an Italian AD in Perugia), and the watch was fixed and returned at no charge. I honestly can't imagine how someone would be able to determine a watch was purchased on the grey market if I have a valid AD warranty.

Savings from reputable grey dealers can be very meaningful (I'm talking 35-40% off list as opposed to 10-15% from most ADs). If you're buying an expensive piece, that is real money. Unfortunately, the above discounts don't apply to Rolex (or Panny / Cartier).

A lot of the European sellers in particular are discounting heavily these days given lackluster domestic demand. I just purchased a Moonwatch at 43% off list with a stamped warranty from a well-reputed German AD.

To summarize, risks exist (as Dino has correctly stated), but I believe they're not as prevalent as one would assume. The savings are also meaningfully higher than hitting up a local AD. Everyone's risk tolerance varies, so make your call accordingly.

P.S. - for Rolex discounts in excess of 15%, try buying from a European seller but ensure that you ship to a non-U.S. address (no Rolex imports into the States).
post #42495 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnBC View Post
 

Thank you for the clear explanation @Dino944, I've been aware of the AD vs. gray market debate before but never took the time to fully appreciate it's pros and cons.

 

With that in mind, both the AD and gray market watch will stand equal if bought a couple of years used (at least, old enough so that the original manufacturer warranty has expired). No matter if the original owner acquired it through AD or gray market, you'll have to pay for repairs and service if warranty is up, right? Though with an AD bought watch, you'd get a clearer service history of said watch - does this add any value to you?

 

*sorry for all of those questions, I'm currently thinking of upgrading my future watch purchases, so it now becomes relevant. Didn't really cared when buying lower end Seiko and Victorinox, but when dealing with Oris, Omega and up, the gamble is bigger.

 

EDIT* then there's always the problem of location. I often shop online on gray market websites not because I really think I'd save in the long run, but mostly because I don't live in a big metropolitan city. The biggest watch brands I've got access to are Seiko (lower tier only), Citizen, Bulova, Victorinox and Tissot. I guess that when I'll be planning bigger purchases, I'll need to factor in a small trip to the nearest 'big' city (Montreal).

I would say, one quick thing that I may have over simplified and that is going with the premise that all gray market shops are cheaper.  That may be true on easy to get more common pieces, but on hard to get pieces and recently released pieces they usually charge the same or significantly more than ADs.  If I had purchased a steel 16520 Daytona from a gray shop years ago, I probably could have had one sooner, but it would have cost me anywhere from $3,000-twice its list price.

 

Buying through an AD doesn't give one a clearer service history.  You can get a watch serviced by the manufacturer regardless of where its purchased.  In general, a watch purchased from an AD vs gray shouldn't and doesn't really add financial value, but it may make the first buyer more comfortable if the transaction is between people and not a store.  To me what ads value is that the item have all boxes, papers, hang tags, etc.  Lesser gray shops may not have all of that or may not have check for it...better shops will usually have all that stuff.  I don't like the idea of possibly not getting everything that the watch should have come with...I've seen posts on forums asking what is supposed to come with a watch, and I presume that is from people that bought from ebay or a gray and want to be sure they got everything.

 

I just noticed you are from Quebec.  I was there about 3 years nice place, but yes I didn't notice any higher end watch shops.  I did see a few nice ones in Montreal.  I personally like working with real shops and people I can see so I'm not sure I'd buy on the internet for something of serious magnitude.  In addition, I think doing research, deciding what you want, and then taking a trip to see/purchase it adds a bit of romance or flavor to the watch...it then has a story and an adventure from the beginning.  A few of my watches involved traveling to see/get them and for me it added to the experience.  Good luck with your watch journey. :cheers:

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