or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2744  

post #41146 of 48312
Journeyman, good points. Personally, I loved the Phaeton. I was sad to them all but disappear here in the states.
post #41147 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

I dont even wear my RO in the shower. :/

I have worn my Rolex swimming, but I much prefer not to.

I don't wear any of my good watches in the shower.  A watch maker once cautioned me about the extra wear and tear hot shower then colder room temps could play on gaskets of a watch.  

 

I've only worn one Rolex swimming and it sustained a few minor battle scars doing so.  Therefore, its the only good watch I have that goes swimming.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

Interesting to read how intricate the perception of brand is and how it impacts people in watches, in other luxury goods and in non-luxury products. I have both a Rolex and a Seiko (with one more on the way) as noted yesterday. I like Rolex and Seiko for a lot of the same reasons.

I also dislike Rolex and Seiko for a lot of the same reasons. I'm not someone who wants to self-identify or be identified as a Rolex or Seiko guy. 

Won't stop me from appreciating them for what they are, but it's a shame that brand perception can play a role even when undesired.

Funny thing, I had a Casio calculator watch also!  It had small solar cells on the front and believe it or not it ran on the same battery for roughly 25 years.  I found it again a few years ago but the battery had died, and I hadn't worn it in 20 years so I gave it away. 

 

I think the comments about your Casio, are more about reminiscing about childhood, and our pasts. I've seen it with vintage cars.  While it may be an appreciation of the item on some level it brings us back to memories of old school friends, girl friends, and things we may have left in the past until something sparks an old memory.  

 

I can see a person liking very different brands but for the same reasons, durability, reliability, quality...even though the perception or price point might be different.  

 

I find it interesting the idea of not wanting to be perceived as a Rolex guy or a Seiko guy etc.  Obviously, brands want us to feel like a Rolex guy, Seiko guy, Patek guy etc.  I think wherever you go in the world whether you want to be labeled or not with certain things...you will be.  If you are the guy driving the Prius ...oh a "Green/Enviromentalist."  If you drive a Rolls Royce ...you are super wealthy and probably have servants.  If you drive a Mini-van you have a bunch of kids.  If you wear bespoke suits you care about your appearance, if you go everywhere in sweat pants you're a slob.  In the end you will be labeled regardless of what you choose to own...so accept it, do what makes you happy, and who cares what others think various items say about you.  The people you matter to, and the people that matter to you will know who you truly are and the possessions and labels are irrelevant in that circle. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post


Still ticking. Several hours in a hot tub too. But, to be fair, my 5711 is far more banged up and scratched up than Dino's RO.

Still looks great in that photo, I can't see any of its battle scars in the photo.  The key thing whether you wear a good watch and bang it up a bit or you wear it and baby it, is that the owner wears and enjoys it!  :cheers:  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post

Eh...eff it...I'm just gonna do it. There was a time when I didn't want to bang up my Rolexes, either.

Do it!!!  :devil:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric View Post

A black dial GP 1960 that belongs to a friend

Love the cushion shape case on that one.  Its probably a watch I'd prefer on a strap, but its nice to have the bracelet option. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHedonist View Post

I think it's that very robust marketing arm of Rolex that turned me off to the brand for so long. I've always carried a general distrust of popular things and a deep dislike of the event of brand recognition. Unnecessary lettering, as we see with the Grand Seiko's triple-branded dial and Rolex's use of the word "superlative," is quite vexing. And part of my brain always seems to wonder what percentage of the retail price of an item has trickled down from the marketing department's budget.

20 to 30 years ago Rolex had a more robust marketing arm than other watch brands.  Today Omega, IWC, Breitling, Tag, Cartier, AP, Patek and most other brands have lots of print ads, celebrity endorsements, and are often in the same magazines where you will see Rolex ads.  

 

Sometimes we over think things to our detriment.  Sometimes things are popular simply because they are that good!  Its easy to be different, being better than what is established as the best is what is difficult. 

 

So have you ordered the GS yet?;)

post #41148 of 48312
I have never even thought of this before mostly because I can't really think of a situation in which I would end up in the shower with my watch on. idk… seems kinda weird to me.
post #41149 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
 

 

 

A very good post, and it really speaks to the power of branding to influence people's decisions - which, of course, is why companies spend so much on advertising and promotion in various forms, so as to create a particular brand perception.

 

Rolex still have similar ads, of course, showing people trekking across the Arctic, climbing high peaks, taking part in long-distance ocean yacht races and so on.

 

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people who take part in those sort of activities wear something like a Casio G-Shock while they're actually at sea or on top of the mountain, but the important thing is that the perception is still there and that the myth is still maintained.

 

The same goes for cars - there are some absolutely brilliant Japanese cars out there but, in the West, whilst people do regard Lexus, Infiniti etc as luxury brands, they still don't have quite the same cachet as Mercedes or BMW, for example. As a Euro example, the Volkswagen Phaeton W12 was an excellent car that got very good reviews and that easily rivalled the top-end cars from Mercedes and BMW, but it bombed in the US largely because it had a VW badge, rather than a Mercedes or BMW badge.

 

It's really rather mortifying to think about and to realise just how vulnerable we are to this kind of brand imagery and manipulation - even though we might like to think that we're independent thinkers and that we rationally assess things on their merits, it's not true. We're still swayed by emotional responses to things and those emotional responses are, as Dino pointed out, often based on the influences (such as branding and advertising) that we've been exposed to during formative periods in our lives.

I think it beyond brand imagery and recognition, there is also a sense of value that make affect a person's choices.  If I said you can have a Volkswagen for the price of a Mercedes Benz, BMW, or Audi...for some people they will feel you are ripping them off, and that it isn't a good value.  Flip it around and tell a person you can have a Mercedes, BMW or Audi for the price of a VW...and now the buyer feels like they are getting a hell of a deal.  

 

In a sense you can't blame them.  If I told you that Joseph A. Bank in addition to selling cheap suits was introducing a new line of high quality suits that would be priced the same as Oxxford, Kiton, or Brioni...would you purchase the Joseph A Bank?  Or would you go with the tried and true brands that have a long established reputation for making high quality suits and using the best fabrics?

 

The Phaeton was an interesting experiment, but it was doomed to fail even though it was a great car.  It was priced out what people consider VW prices.  Mercedes tried to cut of piece of Rolls Royces action with the Maybach...and they were out of their element.  In that price range people want to see the Flying Lady (also known as the Spirit of Ecstacy) at the end of the hood.  Perhaps its a natural progression to strive for what is perceived as the next step up be it a watch, a car or suits.  Most people don't start with a bespoke suit, they get something that they're wallet will allow.  Then maybe they get a nice brand on sale at an up scale store, and maybe somewhere down the road the move on to bespoke.  I think most of us with a strong work ethic always strive to be something better and  maybe we also strive to have something better to match our achievements. 

post #41150 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post



So have you ordered the GS yet?wink.gif

Oh no, that's just not going to happen.
post #41151 of 48312
Well, it arrived today. I do need to have it sized properly... wonder if I'll find the time to have it done before the weekend. No tool handy.
post #41152 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc wid it View Post

Well, it arrived today. I do need to have it sized properly... wonder if I'll find the time to have it done before the weekend. No tool handy.

Congrats! Post a photo of it in the box for us. You can always post a wrist shot later wink.gif congrats again and enjoy it ! Cheers!
post #41153 of 48312
Hmm colors came out funny under less than ideal lighting. Will provide better shots at a later date.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #41154 of 48312
One day I will kop a Patek Philippe. Preferably an annual or perpetual calendar in yellow gold. Then I will look after it for the next generation.
post #41155 of 48312
I don't think the Phaeton necessarily failed for the wrong reasons. VWs are notoriously unreliable in the US and the Phaeton was also very expensive to repair due to parts pricing. In the many years since it was released it has proven to be quite expensive to maintain.

It was also a homely car, even more so for something in that price bracket, and appearances do matter. I'm not saying the Phaeton would have prevailed had it been reliable and good looking, but I think those were certainly contributory factors. Will be interesting to see how they do things differently their second go round with the Phaeton which I think is coming out in a year or two.
Edited by UnFacconable - 2/18/15 at 9:35pm
post #41156 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksandr View Post

One day I will kop a Patek Philippe. Preferably an annual or perpetual calendar in yellow gold. Then I will look after it for the next generation.

 

Well, that's a good segue from the above discussion about marketing and branding!

 

 

 

PP's advertising is very good and it's squarely aimed at aspirational people, as Dino averted to above when he said:

 

Quote:
Perhaps its a natural progression to strive for what is perceived as the next step up be it a watch, a car or suits.  Most people don't start with a bespoke suit, they get something that they're wallet will allow.  Then maybe they get a nice brand on sale at an up scale store, and maybe somewhere down the road the move on to bespoke.  I think most of us with a strong work ethic always strive to be something better and  maybe we also strive to have something better to match our achievements.

 

There's nothing particularly wrong with that - aspiration is largely what helps us advance, both as individuals and as a society. However, I think that it's interesting to try to deconstruct these advertisements and brand images, to see how they're trying to influence us (and to see whether they succeed or not!). PP has positioned itself squarely as an aspirational good - something that you get when you've "made it", when you've built up wealth that can be inherited, passed on to the next generation. The black and white picture and the clothing and hairstyles convey that image, too - somewhat old-fashioned, conservative, successful etc.

post #41157 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

The Phaeton was an interesting experiment, but it was doomed to fail even though it was a great car.  It was priced out what people consider VW prices.  Mercedes tried to cut of piece of Rolls Royces action with the Maybach...and they were out of their element.  In that price range people want to see the Flying Lady (also known as the Spirit of Ecstacy) at the end of the hood.  Perhaps its a natural progression to strive for what is perceived as the next step up be it a watch, a car or suits.  Most people don't start with a bespoke suit, they get something that they're wallet will allow.  Then maybe they get a nice brand on sale at an up scale store, and maybe somewhere down the road the move on to bespoke.  I think most of us with a strong work ethic always strive to be something better and  maybe we also strive to have something better to match our achievements. 

The Phaeton, which was the best car I have ever owned, was a comparative flop in Europe too and only kept in production by Chinese sales. VW group were only able to make the design a success by sticking a Bentley badge on the front of the W12 and a bit more wood and leather inside (although the Phaeton was available with beautifully inlaid marquetry) and selling it as the Continental and Flying spur at twice the price. People are strange confused.gif

Those that bought the 5 series and E series with which it was priced to compete (in diesel form) bought inferior cars. Where the Phaeton lost in the long term was by not bringing out new models, perhaps it was internal VW group politics with Audi and Porsche not to mention Bentley. The A8 was as unsuccessful to start with but Audi persevered and it became a relative success eventually, The current Phaeton is essentially the same car that was conceived by Ferdinand Piëch designed at the end of the 90s and released in 2002 so even a strong supporter of the car like me cannot sensibly buy one although second hand they are the deal of the century or at lead the decade.

I wonder what the watch equivalent of the Phaeton is? I suspect it would be my kind of watch.
post #41158 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

The Phaeton was an interesting experiment, but it was doomed to fail even though it was a great car.  It was priced out what people consider VW prices.  Mercedes tried to cut of piece of Rolls Royces action with the Maybach...and they were out of their element.

MB is brining the Maybach back, but as a S600 LWB Maybach and not a standalone model, I think the reason why the Maybach failed was the styling, the car itself wasn't bad and could easily have become a succes if it had looked better.


http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/future/model/model-All_New_Mercedes_Maybach_S600






Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post


The Phaeton, which was the best car I have ever owned, was a comparative flop in Europe too and only kept in production by Chinese sales. VW group were only able to make the design a success by sticking a Bentley badge on the front of the W12 and a bit more wood and leather inside (although the Phaeton was available with beautifully inlaid marquetry) and selling it as the Continental and Flying spur at twice the price. People are strange confused.gif

Those that bought the 5 series and E series with which it was priced to compete (in diesel form) bought inferior cars. Where the Phaeton lost in the long term was by not bringing out new models, perhaps it was internal VW group politics with Audi and Porsche not to mention Bentley. The A8 was as unsuccessful to start with but Audi persevered and it became a relative success eventually, The current Phaeton is essentially the same car that was conceived by Ferdinand Piëch designed at the end of the 90s and released in 2002 so even a strong supporter of the car like me cannot sensibly buy one although second hand they are the deal of the century or at lead the decade.

The problem with the Phaeton was the badge, the thought of a luxury VW seems odd to most people and in that segment buyers want badge prestige, so people can see they made it, which a VW doesn't have, its a bit of the same thing with the Touareg.

I've noticed around London the 7 series and especially the A8 are far less represented than S and even E classes and if I remember the correctly the S class is the more expensive of the 4.
post #41159 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

I've noticed around London the 7 series and especially the A8 are far less represented than S and even E classes and if I remember the correctly the S class is the more expensive of the 4.

You are right in London it is S class > 7 Series > A8. In Mayfair and Belgravia Rolls Royce and Bentley outnumber them all. I am always disappointed when a limousine service turns up with an E class it seems wrong but still better than the American vehicles the hen nights parties are so fond of.
post #41160 of 48312
I thought the point of the Phaeton was that the CEO wanted to see what VW could do (and show the world), and start moving his brand upscale. I believe it failed because people never gave it a chance (because of brand or whatever), because that car really sells itself if you drive it.

My wife owned its spiritual SUV equivalent, the Touareg, and every time I got in it I was constantly amazed at the quality, features, and attention to detail it carried. That car also sold itself as soon as we got into it for a test drive

I suppose you can say the Phaeton wasn't a total failure because its concepts made it to Audis and Bentleys, and perhaps that was the point all along
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
This thread is locked  
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...)