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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2738  

post #41056 of 48312

Question on that Nautilus: do you ever feel like it isn't robust enough for daily wear? I've been thinking about getting my first true luxury watch, but I can't help but worry that they won't be very hardwearing (choosing between a Nautilus and a RO, by the way). I might be fretting for nothing since I work a desk job and barely ding my current watch.

post #41057 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBee View Post

I love this style.  Reminds me of the Glashuette I used to own.  Wish I had never sold it.  I don't see that style any longer in Glashuette, but I do like this ALS.  Hmmm... Tempting.

confused.gif Glashutte should remind you of the ALS, not the other way around.

Also, Dino's feedback is always interesting to read, regardless of who it's directed at.
post #41058 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc wid it View Post

confused.gif Glashutte should remind you of the ALS, not the other way around.
 

 

Why is that?

 

Not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

 

I know that Lange dates from the mid-1800s, but the brand disappeared for about fifty years as it ceased to exist after WWII when East Germany became communist and was only re-started in 1994.

 

Similarly, Glashuette Original started in 1994, but it emerged from the privatisation of a state-owned, East German watchmaking business.

 

Both Lange and Glashuette are (as the latter's name indicates) based in Glashuette.

post #41059 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post

Why is that?

Not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

I know that Lange dates from the mid-1800s, but the brand disappeared for about fifty years as it ceased to exist after WWII when East Germany became communist and was only re-started in 1994.

Similarly, Glashuette Original started in 1994, but it emerged from the privatisation of a state-owned, East German watchmaking business.

Both Lange and Glashuette are (as the latter's name indicates) based in Glashuette.

Because the Lange 1 predates the GO Panodate and various other Pano versions.
post #41060 of 48312

Ah, I see - thanks for that.

 

I can't help but wonder whether the town of Glashuette is a watchmaking version of what the town of Herzogenaurach was to sporting footwear, with the Adidas headquarters based on one side, the Puma headquarters on the other, and considerable rivalry between the two companies and their employees and families.

 

Maybe half the people in Glashuette wear GO and the other half wear AL&S?

post #41061 of 48312
I think there's a few watch companies in Glashütte. It's Germany's Jura.
post #41062 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Really, no distinct features that represent Lange?  I disagree but I will come back to that.  I am guessing that like Aleksandr you think the distinct feature it is missing is the "Grand date."  However, that is really only a feature used on some models and is hardly the end all be all of Lange DNA.  None of the 1815s models have ever used a grand date, the Richard Langes have never used it and many Saxonia do not use it.  Personally, I only like it on a Lange 1.  I think its dial layout is so unique that it is where a grand date looks best.  I find it unnecessary on other Langes, and played out on brands other than Lange (which was the first to use it) or JLC (which developed it for use in Langes).  Today, its been used in Breitlings, Breguets like that Marine model, VC's Overseas, and countless other brands.  I've grown tired of seeing it on anything other than a Lange 1 or JLC.  I also think that with the Richard Lange's rather sober design, the Grand Date would detract from a very elegant simple design.  I like that they didn't cut out an hour marker, or part of an hour marker, or needlessly cut into the dial merely to throw an date onto a beautiful dial.  Today, too many dials are ruined with dates, merely because the public finds them convenient.  

As for the Lange lacking distinct features...as mentioned earlier I disagree.  IMHO Lange DNA is so much more than "Grand dates." That case and those slightly chunky, chiseled lugs are classic Lange.  Those hands are classic Lange.  Then there is the movement 3/4 plate, hand engraved balance cock and screwed gold chatons .  Compare it with other Lange models and I think you will see it has as many distinct Lange features.  

It is a dressy watch, and perhaps that will limit its use for you.   Yes, it will probably cost more than a Breguet or GO, but it exceeds both in terms of workmanship.  So yes, the others may cost less, but perhaps you are getting less with those others.  Only you can decide what works for you in terms of design and cost.  

If distinct features that represent brand are important ( I personally do put some value on this), for me the Marine has very few features that are distinct to Breguet.  The lugs and case are not distinct to the brand (although the case has coin edging).  A guilloche dial is very Breguet, but the style used on the Marine it isn't their best work IMHO...and that Grand Date at 6 bothers me both in that it cuts out a proper 6 marker and  its not distinct to Breguet...its something borrowed from Lange and JLC.   I'm also not that fond of the rotor used on its movement.  If you want a sporty Breguet the Type XX is a classic representation of the brand, but if it need not be sportier go with one of their classic dress watches.  I like the 7787, and its dial is sort of whimsical for a Breguet with its asymmetric functions.  I sort of feel that going with the porcelain dial (as lovely as it looks), over a guilloche may be leaving out a classic Breguet element, so I'm torn as to whether I could choose porcelain over guilloche...but maybe the porcelain seems a tad less dressy, which might be better if that means you will be able to wear it more.   

As for Glashutte Original, they make nice watches, but I'm not sure I think there is anything truly distinctive about the brand that you could not get with some other brand.  

Anyway, its certainly fun hearing about your experiences as you shop for a possible dress watch.  Wishing you luck and lots of fun on the journey.  

Thank you as always for your thoughts, Dino. Unlike many of you in here, I am only near the beginning of my horological journey, and to paraphrase someone (I forget who, and the context) from some pages back, perhaps I should spend more time reading than posting.

I should say though that the first ALS watch I came across was the Lange 1, and I was entranced by the grand date, so in my mind the brand will forever be assoiated with the oversize date window. Maybe in time they will come to be known as Lange dates, like Breguet hands. I later discovered the same in GO, and for a time I considered getting a Pano variant. I still might, hypothetically these guys shouldn't be affected by the spiralling value of the Swiss Franc and should still charge for their watches in good old Euros?
post #41063 of 48312
The Lange 1 Daymatic is my 'achievable' grail; the Richard Lange Terraluna is my ultimate grail - there's a great 'show and tell' video on their website about the movement.
post #41064 of 48312
I find it interesting that so many people seem to invest emotional capital in a brand. Perhaps men are programmed this way. It happens on shoes, cars, ties etc.

It is easier to understand when a brand has a particular aesthetic such as Nomos or some might say Rolex but most brands change their style with fashion.

It makes sense to admire a individual design of watch be it a Reverso or Nautilus rather than the company that made it. Some people might not care so much about design and admire the engineering of particular watches.

It especially makes less sense when much of the brand loyalty is bought by grotesque levels of advertising and marketing but I suppose that's why the companies spend so much on it.
post #41065 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

I find it interesting that so many people seem to invest emotional capital in a brand. Perhaps men are programmed this way. It happens on shoes, cars, ties etc.

It is easier to understand when a brand has a particular aesthetic such as Nomos or some might say Rolex but most brands change their style with fashion.

It makes sense to admire a individual design of watch be it a Reverso or Nautilus rather than the company that made it. Some people might not care so much about design and admire the engineering of particular watches.

It especially makes less sense when much of the brand loyalty is bought by grotesque levels of advertising and marketing but I suppose that's why the companies spend so much on it.

+1
post #41066 of 48312

Different strokes for different folks.

 

For example, I like most of what JLC and Lange do, some bits more than others. This is partly the aesthetics, partly the movements, partly the fact that they are manufacturers, and a load of other subtle things. Yes, the advertising brings them to my attention and shows them in their best light, but it doesn't drive my appreciation of them.

 

Similarly, Rolex. I just like the look of what they do, with a few exceptions. I like the history, the ruggedness, etc.

 

Contrast Patek - for whatever reason, they simply don't speak to me. I must see a dozen of their adverts every other day, and I've seen the watches in the metal, but I just come away thinking 'so what?', and, personally, I don't think they are good value compared to the other brands that I like.

 

And Nomos leaves me absolutely cold - to me the watches look a bit like those Swiss rail clock things - a bit cheap. I haven't seen one in the metal though, so maybe there is something I'm missing.

 

I guarantee that someone else will have the polar opposite view to me on the brands I have listed. And neither of us is right or wrong.

 

There are very similar parallels with cars, restaurants, clothes, women, etc.

 

My point is that everyone has different reasons for liking different brands and, within that, different models. It's really hard to put your finger on what makes a particular model or brand chime with you. It just resonates with you, or it doesn't. And there must also be examples where a new model or a change of direction just kills off someone's love for a brand. If this is me investing emotional attachment to a brand, then so be it - perhaps some of those brands deserve that investment from me.

post #41067 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksandr View Post


Thank you as always for your thoughts, Dino. Unlike many of you in here, I am only near the beginning of my horological journey, and to paraphrase someone (I forget who, and the context) from some pages back, perhaps I should spend more time reading than posting.

I should say though that the first ALS watch I came across was the Lange 1, and I was entranced by the grand date, so in my mind the brand will forever be assoiated with the oversize date window. Maybe in time they will come to be known as Lange dates, like Breguet hands. I later discovered the same in GO, and for a time I considered getting a Pano variant. I still might, hypothetically these guys shouldn't be affected by the spiralling value of the Swiss Franc and should still charge for their watches in good old Euros?

No need to read more and post less.  We often learn by others pointing out things we did not previously consider or know.  Sometimes our position stays the same, sometimes it changes, but it often benefits more than just the original poster.

 

I think the first Lange I saw was also the Lange 1.  Its dial design and asymmetric layout was ground breaking.  The 1815 and Saxonia were/are nice, but their designs were not so revolutionary when they were released.  The Swiss had nothing like a Lange 1.  The grand date certainly worked well on the dial layout, but the watch itself was more than the grand date.  It was a very harmonious, yet asymmetric layout for telling time and the date, and its quality and hand workmanship matched or surpassed anything offered by the Swiss. 

 

As for GO, they make very good watches, such as the Senator, but the Pano a model I've never cared for.  I've posted my thoughts on it before, so I will keep my comments brief.  I know some prefer elements of its dial layout to the L1, or that its much less expensive and gives a similar look.  However, to me they should have changed the branding on the dial to say "Glashutte Unoriginal."  as that model was anything but original...it was essentially an homage to a L1.  I'd rather have an original design than a "Me Too" design any day...and if its out of my price range...then I'll gladly admire it from afar.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dachshund View Post

 

Yes, the advertising brings them to my attention and shows them in their best light, but it doesn't drive my appreciation of them.

 

Similarly, Rolex. I just like the look of what they do, with a few exceptions. I like the history, the ruggedness, etc.

 

Contrast Patek - for whatever reason, they simply don't speak to me. I must see a dozen of their adverts every other day, and I've seen the watches in the metal, but I just come away thinking 'so what?', and, personally, I don't think they are good value compared to the other brands that I like.

 

And Nomos leaves me absolutely cold - to me the watches look a bit like those Swiss rail clock things - a bit cheap. I haven't seen one in the metal though, so maybe there is something I'm missing.

 

I guarantee that someone else will have the polar opposite view to me on the brands I have listed. And neither of us is right or wrong.

 

There are very similar parallels with cars, restaurants, clothes, women, etc.

 

My point is that everyone has different reasons for liking different brands and, within that, different models. It's really hard to put your finger on what makes a particular model or brand chime with you. It just resonates with you, or it doesn't. And there must also be examples where a new model or a change of direction just kills off someone's love for a brand. If this is me investing emotional attachment to a brand, then so be it - perhaps some of those brands deserve that investment from me.

+1

 

For me advertising is at best entertainment, but irrelevant.  It doesn't motivate me to purchase anything.  Celebrities wearing a watch means little today as they are paid to wear them.  I purchase what I like based on quality, design, beauty, and function.  I appreciate brand history, however its not enough to maintain me as a customer if I don't like the direction in which a company is moving.  I've moved away from purchasing watches from brands when there is little of interest to me. 

 

I've said it before, no watch can be everything to everyone.  There are brands I tend to favor, and those that don't interest me in the least.  Its interesting to see what our fellow posters here like and purchase.  Sometimes I'm on the same page, sometimes not, but the diversity of opinions and taste always makes it interesting. 

post #41068 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Really, no distinct features that represent Lange?  I disagree but I will come back to that.  I am guessing that like Aleksandr you think the distinct feature it is missing is the "Grand date."  However, that is really only a feature used on some models and is hardly the end all be all of Lange DNA.  None of the 1815s models have ever used a grand date, the Richard Langes have never used it and many Saxonia do not use it.  Personally, I only like it on a Lange 1.  I think its dial layout is so unique that it is where a grand date looks best.  I find it unnecessary on other Langes, and played out on brands other than Lange (which was the first to use it) or JLC (which developed it for use in Langes).  Today, its been used in Breitlings, Breguets like that Marine model, VC's Overseas, and countless other brands.  I've grown tired of seeing it on anything other than a Lange 1 or JLC.  I also think that with the Richard Lange's rather sober design, the Grand Date would detract from a very elegant simple design.  I like that they didn't cut out an hour marker, or part of an hour marker, or needlessly cut into the dial merely to throw an date onto a beautiful dial.  Today, too many dials are ruined with dates, merely because the public finds them convenient.  

As for the Lange lacking distinct features...as mentioned earlier I disagree.  IMHO Lange DNA is so much more than "Grand dates." That case and those slightly chunky, chiseled lugs are classic Lange.  Those hands are classic Lange.  Then there is the movement 3/4 plate, hand engraved balance cock and screwed gold chatons .  Compare it with other Lange models and I think you will see it has as many distinct Lange features.  

It is a dressy watch, and perhaps that will limit its use for you.   Yes, it will probably cost more than a Breguet or GO, but it exceeds both in terms of workmanship.  So yes, the others may cost less, but perhaps you are getting less with those others.  Only you can decide what works for you in terms of design and cost.  

If distinct features that represent brand are important ( I personally do put some value on this), for me the Marine has very few features that are distinct to Breguet.  The lugs and case are not distinct to the brand (although the case has coin edging).  A guilloche dial is very Breguet, but the style used on the Marine it isn't their best work IMHO...and that Grand Date at 6 bothers me both in that it cuts out a proper 6 marker and  its not distinct to Breguet...its something borrowed from Lange and JLC.   I'm also not that fond of the rotor used on its movement.  If you want a sporty Breguet the Type XX is a classic representation of the brand, but if it need not be sportier go with one of their classic dress watches.  I like the 7787, and its dial is sort of whimsical for a Breguet with its asymmetric functions.  I sort of feel that going with the porcelain dial (as lovely as it looks), over a guilloche may be leaving out a classic Breguet element, so I'm torn as to whether I could choose porcelain over guilloche...but maybe the porcelain seems a tad less dressy, which might be better if that means you will be able to wear it more.   

As for Glashutte Original, they make nice watches, but I'm not sure I think there is anything truly distinctive about the brand that you could not get with some other brand.  

Anyway, its certainly fun hearing about your experiences as you shop for a possible dress watch.  Wishing you luck and lots of fun on the journey.  

I think you look at watches a bit more closely than most of us. For me, the lug style, Lange hands, movement plate, etc. aren't distinct or recognizable enough to be able to identify the brand, while I think Breguet's guilloche, hands, coined case, and numerals (on arabic dials) are quite distinct. I'm not sure I'd be able to blindly identify a new A. Lange design without it saying the company name on the dial. The lugs and hands wouldn't be enough for me to be able to tell it's A. Lange.

As for the date, I prefer watches without a date simply because I don't have enough winders to keep all my watches going all the time so I often have to set them before I wear them, so a date just becomes a hassle for me. But it seems like most watches will have them anyway.

Also, you mention that the enamel is less dressy than the guilloche, but it seems more like the opposite to me. The smooth/clean look of the enamel seems more dressy to me. In the end, I think I'd go with a guilloche if from Breguet.
post #41069 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post
 

However, to me they should have changed the branding on the dial to say "Glashutte Unoriginal." 

 

LMAO!  :rotflmao:

post #41070 of 48312
I think for most people that have a strong sense of brand loyalty, or at least this is how I feel, brand loyalty develops from a person really really loving a number of models from a brand, and then actually buying one or more, and being immensely pleased beyond expectation. Most of us have little to no interaction with the brands outside of the purchase we make, so the loyalty is not exactly built on interpersonal relationships, or a sense of loyalty to a person at the company that you met and hit it off with and they hooked you up, like you might a car dealer or something. That is something you may feel towards an AD or other retailer, but not likely to the actual manufacturer. The same way a person is "loyal" to a car brand. They mean they have been pleased with past purchases and would happily buy another.

Sure, some may have some repair issue and they send the watch in and have a great experience with the brand and feel they went above and beyond for them, and develop warm fuzzies, as they should, for the company as a result, but that is not the reason the far majority of people develop brand loyalty.

For most, its just about the product, and when a person becomes particularly enamored with a number of items from a brand and they buy from them, its really more a sense of loyalty to yourself that you stand up for what you believe in, ie, the watch you chose to buy, and enjoy. By extension, loyalty to the brand, even to models and decisions that are not really relevant to the model on your wrist, is developed. The stronger the brand, the stronger you can feel about your watch and be happy with it.

I know for myself it would be a crappy feeling to have a watch I like but to feel cold or indifferent to the brand as a whole. I know to some that is not the case, each item is in a vacuum and relates to itself and only itself. Different strokes for different folks, and I think its silly for a person on either side of that coin to try and tell someone else how they should feel. Mutual respect is where its at for me.
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