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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2660  

post #39886 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

I was wondering if Belli had lost his mind. Now I'm thinking just drunk: if he'd said he wanted a IWC or Panerai, maybe then it would mean a serious problem. smile.gif

I didn't buy the thing to actually wear it. :P
post #39887 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by stijn View Post


I have to agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

Yessssss — victory is mine! He even made a reference to typography.

One thing, though. I think it's a bigger problem than Georges Kern. I believe that Richemont is inherently flawed, and I just hope they leave Lange alone after defiling IWC and Cartier.

I read the article. I think I've posted about IWC before and I don't want to cast myself as IWC's advocate here. Suffice it to say, I own a couple of IWC watches that I love and I think the company is worthy of tremendous respect. I think there is no comparison to the quality and level of watchmaking that you see from IWC today (ie last 10 years or so to the supposed good old says. (Mayer touts his GST chrono as what hooked his on the brand, a watch with a std 7750 movement, not to mention the stupid GST designation: GST=gold, steel, titanium. Please).

That is not to say that I like all or even most of their watches. I don't, but can say that about most brands. Plenty of Pateks, Langes, APs JLCs etc I don't like either. I don't necessarily disagree about the limited editions and celebrity marketing and so forth, but the bottom line is watch companies have to make money and business is business. How many Rolex advertisements have you seen with celebrities or Omega's or AP’s innumerable offshore editions and so on ?

As for Cartier, I am not sure what you mean by defiling it. Cartier has a great history as a jeweler and did in the past sell some very interesting watches, not of its own manufacture. Over the last 30 or 40 years, most of its watches were uninteresting jewelry type watches eg, Santos, various Tank models etc . Now, Cartier has started making some really amazing watches and is trying assert itself as a true watchmaker. I don't see the problem frankly. You liked Cartier more when it was making Roadsters and Pashas?
post #39888 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post

^
Nah. Stickers on, straight to London, Paris or Milan. Gonna be a fun weekend coming up.

HANJOY!!
post #39889 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

I fooking love the DeepSea! But, I also have a ridiculously overengineered physique and a penchant for pushing my endeavors to the extreme.  So, what it stands for resonates with me.  Hahahahah.  Is it foolish to design a watch that can withstand those kinds of depths?  Probably. Is it foolish to put my body through insane amounts of pain at 4:30am five days a week when I work a desk job?  Probably.  Love it all anyway.

Also, the D-Blue has the most amazing dial.  As vociferously vicious as the remarks were about it when it was released (I was one of a handful of its defenders), it now commands a premium in the secondary market - notwithstanding rumors that Rolex may cut production of it this year, or limit it to 3,000.  Who really knows what Rolex will do?

But, if you're not a fan of the DSSD's original proportions, the D-Blue won't sway you.

Frills, tell us more about this!!
post #39890 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by robw View Post



I read the article. I think I've posted about IWC before and I don't want to cast myself as IWC's advocate here. Suffice it to say, I own a couple of IWC watches that I love and I think the company is worthy of tremendous respect. I think there is no comparison to the quality and level of watchmaking that you see from IWC today (ie last 10 years or so to the supposed good old says. (Mayer touts his GST chrono as what hooked his on the brand, a watch with a std 7750 movement, not to mention the stupid GST designation: GST=gold, steel, titanium. Please).

That is not to say that I like all or even most of their watches. I don't, but can say that about most brands. Plenty of Pateks, Langes, APs JLCs etc I don't like either. I don't necessarily disagree about the limited editions and celebrity marketing and so forth, but the bottom line is watch companies have to make money and business is business. How many Rolex advertisements have you seen with celebrities or Omega's or AP’s innumerable offshore editions and so on ?

As for Cartier, I am not sure what you mean by defiling it. Cartier has a great history as a jeweler and did in the past sell some very interesting watches, not of its own manufacture. Over the last 30 or 40 years, most of its watches were uninteresting jewelry type watches eg, Santos, various Tank models etc . Now, Cartier has started making some really amazing watches and is trying assert itself as a true watchmaker. I don't see the problem frankly. You liked Cartier more when it was making Roadsters and Pashas?

I think IWC is certainly worth of tremendous respect, but sadly the direction of their watches is such that they don't make anything I'd want to own.  Yes, movements based on ETA/Valjoux was definitely a week point years ago.  However, at least they made watches I would want to own.  Their Novecento perpetual calendar was an amazing and unusual watch.  They were one of the pioneers in working with titanium.  And their pilots watches and GSTs were understated and cool (even with Val 7750s), as they were still reasonably affordable.  Sorry, I know the Big Pilotsare well liked here, but sadly I find the BP not all that comfortable to wear, not all that attractive, and at this point played out and tiresome...every well healed international student in the area wears one.  As the Portuguese 8 day reserve and others in the current line up, there really isn't anything note worthy about the design or the finish of the movements that would get me to choose one.

 

As for the ridiculous number of limited editions, yes IWC is far from the only offender.  Omega is almost at the point of announcing a new anniversary moon watch every time there is a full moon (the Snoopy version being the most foolish), and AP's Offshore limited editions...are generally hideous and seem monumental in generating revenue rather marking truly special accomplishments.  All of these companies (and others not mentioned) offer too many pointless limited editions that dilute the importance of something even being called limited.

 

As for Cartier, they are making some great movements today (for their high end watches), but many of their current designs seem like stylistic exercises with little interest from true collectors.  Watches like the Ballon Blue, Tank Anglaise, & Calibre are nice but often appeal to one time buyers.  They are sort of clunky, and IMHO often lack the finesse of some of their more classic pieces of the past. The Fine Watchmaking Collection is nice, but many pieces just fall flat and have outlandish prices.   I do like the period when they were making Pashas and Roadsters. The Pasha is based on a historic model of the past, and while some used basic ETA movements, others used F.Piguet chronograph movements (same base used in VC Overseas chronos and RO chronos), others used JLC, movements, or complicated movements from Gerald Genta, THA or were in house movements.   It was during this period that one of the most significant Cartier watches was revised and re-introduced to the public, the Tortue Monopoussoir (single pusher chronograph).  This Tortue is a watch that I've seen even the most staunch PP, VC, and AP brand supporters say its one watch from outside the "Big Three" that they respect and plan to add or have added to their collections. 

 

Sure the Tank Francaise and Santos Galbee are somewhat pedestrian in their basic froms using an ETA based movement.  But the Santos and Louis Cartier Tank have historic significance as some of the early wrist watches to be produced and the strap versions in gold or platinum often had high grade movements from European Watch Co, Jaeger, Piaget, F. Piguet.   In addition referring to most of its watches in the last 30-40 years as jewelry watches seems like an overstatement.  Sure they made less expensive watches with ETA movements, it kept prices down, and allowed the products to reach a larger audience.  That's not so different from Tudor's mission.  Although, the basic eta powered Cartiers do not interest me, Cartier has always produced higher end pieces for those interested in movements and lower production.  These pieces used movements from Piaget, JLC, THA, Piguet, etc, along with a few in house movements.  As someone who has followed Cartier for many years and who has friends who have also collected Cartier for the better part of 20+ years, I've found many feel their current offerings are not as desirable or interesting as what was available 10-20years ago.  Many of us prefer the CPCP watches over the current Fine Watchmaking Collection. I know some people that have largely turned their attention away from purchasing new Cartiers, and redirected it to seeking out CPCP models and other high grade vintage models.  They see the Fine Watchmaking Collection as something driven more by marketing and trends, rather than producing models that are true to their history.  Its great that they are now making so many watches in house, but that doesn't mean that overall what they are producing is better or more desirable.  There are probably at least a 10 pieces from the late 1990's early 2000's all using high grade outsourced movements that I would gladly choose over anything they currently offer.  I do think they have a few very good models, such as the Rotonde and the Tank ultra-thin, and the Santos-Dumont, but I think the collection as a whole was stronger years ago.  

post #39891 of 48312
Turn-O-Graph

post #39892 of 48312
I don't want to "pile on" here, but just a few thoughts:

* It's pretty cool that John Mayer is involved in the world of horology to the extent that he is. And I know he's contributed to Hodinkee before.... and frankly, at least you can tell that he really cares. I personally feel just a little bit less geeky just knowing that. So, hey, I'm into watches too, Ms. Supermodel/Actress...what was your number again, sweetheart? LOL.

* Cartier: I'm pretty much tired of defending....I just love the brand, and the heart wants what it wants I guess. (Dino is always aces whenever this subject comes up anyway.) But really the question is: why does it always keep coming up?

* IWC in general: yes, they have lost their way to a certain extent....but who hasn't at some point? It's a long, long history they've got, quite storied in fact.....and I'm certain they've got a lot of good watchmaking years ahead of them. As with any business venture, you need some solid leadership / vision coming from the top, and then you ALWAYS need to make sure that your product is excellent quality. It has to function well, and serve your customers' needs. But design-wise, there will be hits, and there will be misses. FWIW, I've got some faith that there will be more great, inspired pieces coming out of Schaffhausen sooner rather than later.
Most of Mayer's advice was pretty good, IMHO.

* Belli is having way more fun than should be allowed lately.

* For casual Friday I'm wearing this at the office-- albeit with corduroy, rather than denim:


post #39893 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky View Post

John Mayer's open letter to IWC

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-iwc-from-john-mayer

Was this before or after he found out half of his Rolex collection is fake?
post #39894 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky View Post

John Mayer's open letter to IWC

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-iwc-from-john-mayer

Was this before or after he found out half of his Rolex collection is fake?

lol
post #39895 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

* Cartier: I'm pretty much tired of defending....I just love the brand, and the heart wants what it wants I guess. (Dino is always aces whenever this subject comes up anyway.) But really the question is: why does it always keep coming up?


* For casual Friday I'm wearing this at the office-- albeit with corduroy, rather than denim:


:inlove:  Looks great.

 

Thanks for the kind words.  As for the question about Cartier and why it seems they always need defending, from what I have seen on many forums its because they often unjustly get slammed as being just jewelry makers or jewelry  watches, often by people with limited exposure brand, its history, and its offerings.  People are often quick to jump on Cartier for using ETA movements in their more mainstream models such as the Tank Francaise, Santos Galbee, and Solo models, and consider them just a jewelry company.  However, they often forget or don't know Cartier was rather early in offering wrist watches rather than pocket watches, that Cartier pieces often used very high grade movements even when they weren't made in house, and that they are one of the highest volume luxury watch producers in the world (its not some tiny part of their business).  As for slamming them for using ETAs in some watches, its easy for people to forget that brands such as Breitling, Omega, Tudor, and a host of others that often garner a lot of respect were all dependent on ETA movements for many of their watches for several decades.   While we may appreciate that brands like Breitling, Omega, Panerai and others have moved toward producing more watches with inhouse movments, its interesting that we don't hear people accusing these other brand of having merely made jewelry watches (essentially pretty cases and bracelets containing more pedestrian movements).  Some how these other brands "Get a pass."  

 

Its certainly ok not to like a brand, be it in general or just specific models.  There is nothing wrong with that.  And I agree it becomes tiring trying to set the record straight about Cartier. However, its often important to mention when there is evidence that to the contrary regarding generalizations, so those just learning about a brand don't just hear and believe all the negative statements about a brand.  Cheers!

post #39896 of 48312
Quote:
I am an entrepreneur, and I own a small watch manufacture called H. Moser & Cie, based in Schaffhausen, Switzerland. Very Rare is our tagline at H. Moser & Cie. Very Rare, because we produce 1,000 watches, we are entrepreneurs in an independent, family-owned business that employs 55 people, and because we are a manufacture in the true sense of the word, developing and producing our own ingenious watches.

As an entrepreneur in a small Swiss company, I like a challenge; whether it’s the pressure from the big luxury groups in supply or distribution. Or, a fight to do more with small budgets against the avalanche of big advertising and marketing. Well, today, Mr. President, your dramatic move helped step it up a notch: over 95% of our watches are sold to people outside of Switzerland, and the first retailers called the same day to cancel orders.

So this morning at 10:38 when my CFO sent me an email titled “Breaking News”, I thought “aha, finally something to do”. Something that forces me to find smart solutions to continue our growth and improving profitability and to ensure continuity for H. Moser & Cie. and the jobs for 55 people working for me. In fact, one thought crossed my mind: why not just move 2 kilometres into Germany and continue business as usual in the EU? I’ll even beat that other restriction on permits for workers from the EU that came up in February 2014 – around 20% of my employees are German.

It goes on...

http://professionalwatches.com/2015/01/open-letter-to-mr-thomas-jordan-president-of-the-swiss-national-bank.html
post #39897 of 48312
That JM piece is incredibly well written and I could substitute "IWC" for a few other brands (not watch related).

I think my first posts on TWAT were regarding the lure of their incredibly attractive design to me - to be completely turned off by something as unimportant as their ads for the spitfire watch. I would just wouldn't get any enjoyment any time I looked at it. Or in fact any iwc from then on. It would always remind me if that add. Says more about me than them, but JM hits the nail on the head.
post #39898 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imyouricecreamman View Post

If it is new with stickers still on wouldn't they be able to take it in a trade? If you came in interested in the plat Daytona that would make sense for everybody.

I'm not looking to trade, though: I'm looking to convert cash from the weakened Norwegian Kroner into Swiss Rolex before they adjust the local prices to account for the recent devaluation, then sell for €, £ or $. Right now Norway is one of the cheapest countries in the world to buy Rolex, and it shows because dealers across the country are now sold out of popular (i.e. sports) models.

Platinum is more of a gamble than steel and harder to move, but if I can get a favourable price on a 116506 then it could be worth a punt in addition to the stainless ones I've picked up earlier this week.

Here's what the NOK is doing:



Essentially, I'm converting at a rate from earlier in the year due to the unadjusted pricing, so it's a bit like having a time machine. No way to know which the NOK will go in the future, but Rolex is a historically stable currency that I don't consider particularly risky, and there's a potential upside if the kroner continues to fall. Right now the oil industry is getting a bit slaughtered due to low oil prices (job cuts, projects cancelled, contractors essentially wiped out in some companies) so it'll be interesting times. If it gets really bad, I might just say "fuggit" and move someplace warm and cheap for a while. The dudes with loans on expensive cars and depreciating BS like that are stressing, though. :P


Speaking of currencies, check out what the Swiss Franc has done recently. Hayward's link two posts up is very relevant to my little money-speculation project.



:O

The CHF is now delimited from the Euro, and I think that it will have significant effects on the watch industry. My gut tells me that it's a good time to buy, but it could have the effect of bursting the bubble that SJX was referring to:

http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2014/01/editorial-are-watches-too-expensive.html
http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2014/01/editorial-where-are-watch-prices-headed.html

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We'll see what happens.
post #39899 of 48312
Quote:
Right now the oil industry is getting a bit slaughtered due to low oil prices (job cuts, projects cancelled, contractors essentially wiped out in some companies) so it'll be interesting times.

Understatement.

I do see the "wisdom" of making that play Belli....good luck.

There's certainly some people making similar bets on a very large scale.
post #39900 of 48312
Speaking of IWC, from their latest newsletter:

The flying minute tourbillon is a mechanical tour de force that attracts admiring glances from watch connoisseurs

and

The elegance of the Portuguese Tourbillon Hand-Wound "Metropolitan Boutique Edition" perfectly complements life aboard a luxury yacht

facepalm.gif
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