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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2595  

post #38911 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by robw View Post

....if the movement is an issue for you, I would understand.

I will take today's IWC any day.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by academe View Post

I think you nailed it here; one really needs to separate the product from the marketing. 

 

I don't disagree at all; was just trying to recount some of the more critical views expressed before, for the OP's reference.  My personal feeling is that the PC is a distinctive classic, and I'd be proud to have one.

post #38912 of 48312
Cant stop ogling the Zeitwerk. I would probably do some illegal things to own that watch.
post #38913 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

Hmmm...big watch for a suit...bracelet suggestion...lawyers...why am I picturing a 41mm Royal Oak in Texas?

You rang? smile.gif
post #38914 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Maybe I missed it, but has anybody here posted a pic of the limited-release Cartier Crash?

I would punch a baby in the throat for this watch...platinum, 28 X 45mm.....strangely fascinating.

Love that movement shape!

It hasn't been posted here, but I've seen it on other sites.  I love the movement side, but not the dial side.  I think this version of the "Crash" watch would have been more to my liking if they gave it a regular dial but the open skeletonized movement.  As for their dials of this style, I think their Santos Dumont and Tank MC versions look better from the dial side because the Roman numerals look more distinctive when straight, while here they sort of get wavy like the areas in between (say the around the 4 and 5 hour placement) and it sort of looks more like an alloy wheel than a skeleton dial.  Still its nice to see it coming out in a size men can wear.  The previous sizes even for men, were really tiny even by standards years ago.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes View Post

Hi, been following this thread for a bit now as I am looking to get my first nice watch. The watch that I am liking the most is an IWC Portugese Chrono on a brown leather strap. Sounds like a lot of people in this thread are not fans of this watch and I'm curious if it is. (A ) they simply don't like the way it looks or (B) there is something else wrong with the watch/company.
 

You have to buy what you like.  If you love the Portugese Chrono, then go for it.  For me part of my disinterest in the PC has been its basically been a jewelry watch for many years.  Big eye candy, with little substance. For many years unless you spent serious sums of money, IWC basically threw an ETA movement or a Valjoux 7750 into a watch case and largely you were paying for the case a bracelet to distinguish it from watches that could be bought for a $1,500. Obviously, once you spent grand complication money, then the workmanship and modifications to the movement were substantial.  Within a certain price range its reasonable to accept that a watch has a rather common but robust movement, but at another level, its like asking how would you feel about purchasing a Brioni suit if you learned that the materials they were using were from Men's Warehouse, and for the same money you could buy a suit from Oxxford, Attolini, or Kiton (and they wouldn't be using Men's Warehouse materials).  

 

Subjectively, its just never been a design that appealed to me in terms of the dial layout or the case, and at least where I am located, IWC's PC and BP are a bit played out, especially among well heeled international students.  

 

In the end, if you love it then go for it, but for the kind of money they charge, I'd probably consider something else.  Wishing you lots of luck on your journey. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

 

@Lowndes I also like the IWC Portuguese Chrono a lot (the classic one, not the new one with the fancy movement).  But that's the problem for some with the PC: it is inherently a pretty basic watch, with a barely-modified stock movement (as I understand it), but at very much a premium price.  I think there's a feeling among  many aficionados that IWC are charging quite a lot for infinite versions of the same old thing, using generic movements slightly altered and misleading labeled as in-house.  A triumph of marketing over mediocrity.

 

But, I think that's a little harsh.  Nobody markets harder or more expensively than Rolex, and that shows in the cost of every one of their often simple models, that are rarely ground-breaking.  But nobody denies that they're good watches.  I think what it boils down to for me is that the ultimate test of a watch's value is how much you really like it.  I think the PC is a classic design, very charismatic, and I'd be proud to wear it.  One day, I just might.  Even though the case shape is silly and catches on your shirt sleeve.  But at least you'll always be able to see it.  

Ask Kevin Spacey... (Click to show)

 

As for IWC vs. Rolex.  Years ago, I liked IWC designs more, but as you mentioned, the movements were a bit basic.  Today, more of their watches use inhouse movements but sadly, I don't care for many of their designs. The marketing of IWC in the past never bothered me, although, much like Omega, and AP, there are far too many limited editions being released, which IMHO makes the notion of them being "Truly limited" a bit of a joke... wait 6 months and they'll have another meaningless limited edition.  As for today's marketing and that silly movie to create interest in the Portofino line, or them being a lifestyle brand...again I find silly and it doesn't make me want to own a Portofino, but maybe that works on some people. 

 

Rolex, for years their downfall were complaints about the workmanship of the clasps (stamped steel) and the bracelets with clamshell endlinks and hollow center links on steel & two tone models.  However, those factors didn't actually hinder the watches's durability, ruggedness, or ability to withstand harsh extremes.  Those factors have since been addressed, and as for their marketing, yes they spend a lot on advertising and while their designs tend to be more evolutionary rather than revolutionary, over time even their less expensive models get all of the benefits found in their more expensive models.  In addition, even friends of mine that were buying Rolex alternatives for years, and own Omegas, Breitlings, and Zeniths, say that considering where pricing is on some of the other brands they now think with the improvements in clasps and bracelets, Rolex's current pricing is not surprising, nor is it out of line. 

 

In the end people should buy the watch makes them smile the most.  We all just have our own taste and preferences. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes View Post

Thanks for the help so far. I'm a mid level
associate at a large law firm in Texas. The reason why I am picking a brown strap is because I don't like bracelets and it's probably been three years since I've worn black anything other than to a couple of funerals and formal events. I just greatly prefer brown.

On the watch front I actually added a couple to the mix last night and am now between the IWC Portuguese Chrono, JLC Master Chrono or JLC Master Hometime. I like the looks of the Portuguese the most (though it is pretty close) but the JLC keeps bringing me back because of its movement and the more I study the history of the companies JLC is the most interesting to me. I don't believe I'll ever sell this watch as since it is my first nice watch purchase I would eventually like to gift it to my son when he graduates college (he's only 2 so I have awhile).

At the end of the day I probably will be buying a second watch within a year as I just decided to buy a nice watch a few weeks ago and can see how addicting they can get! That one will be more for casual settings.

I would much rather have the JLC (based on the movement alone) over the IWC PC, but that may or may not matter to you and at the end of the day.  Some people are not as interested in the movements.  Buy the one that makes you smile the most and your can't go wrong. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

Someone was a fan of Dali.

Yes, it looks like it.  Although, the story of the "Crash" is based on a Cartier executive wearing an oval shaped Cartier, I believe it was some form of a men's Allongee.  The executive was in a terrible car accident, the car caught on fire and when the watch was discovered in the wreckage it looked something like a Dali design. Supposedly that is the basic background of the design and how the watch got its name the "Crash."   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robw View Post


The 3714 actually is one of the IWC watches from its past when it did not generally use its own movements. I came close to buying a 3712 (similar except is a split second chrono) several times in the late 90s.

Regarding IWC generally, it has come a long way since then. It is a true manufacture (with the exception of the Portofino models as I understand) and makes some beautiful watches with all kinds of complications. I don't like all their models, but their horological cred is really not debatable.

I think the watch aficionados that you describe who have a problem with IWC don't like the fact that they've gone a certain way with their marketing (celebrities and limited editions) and have become or at least are trying to become a known luxury brand instead of the cult brand they used to be. As far as price, IWC watches were never cheap as long as I have been at this hobby.

I personally don't understand when people say that IWC used to be a great brand when they mostly used standard 7750, 2892 etc movements in their watches. Some of those movements were in fact reworked into amazing models like the grand comp, 3712 and so forth. But mostly they were used as is. In those days the IWC defenders argued that they re-assembled the movements or they made great cases and bracelets. That was the best they could do. That is the good old days?

I will take today's IWC any day.

You brought up some great points.  Although, I would like to mention, although you mention IWC's were never cheap, relatively speaking at one point they were sort of cheap (not in a bad way). When the original 3713 and 3706 pilot chronographs were out they carried list prices of $5,500 on a basic chrono on bracelet and $9995 for the Doppel, its larger split seconds chrono sibling on a bracelet.  However, everyone knew you could get them with a nearly 40% discount all day long.  As with most other brands, prices are up, discounts are down, and so for many people it was a question of value.  Maybe in a certain price range it was ok to have a relatively unmodified Val 7750, as its cases, bracelets, and work in other materials Ti and ceramic was really good.  In today's price range it isn't acceptable. 

 

IWC definitely have a lot of credibility and are a solid watch making company.  I give them credit for being one of the first companies to work in titanium and other materials, for being able to create perpetual calendar chronographs that were "relatively affordable" (especially considering the big discounts),  and their workmanship was very good.  I also have a soft sport for what I consider one of the best looking and unexpected perpetual calendars, as it was in a rectangular case, the Novecento.  

 

Sadly, while IWC now makes a lot of their own movements, their designs (and I realize that this is subjective) are nothing I would want to own.  I also don't like these goofy date windows with 3 dates showing.  Some of their Aquatimers remind me of far less expensive plastic watches. And in their price range there are other watches that I would prefer to own. 

I think that based on where they want to be in terms of  prices, competition, and with much of the watch buying public now placing a stronger value on watches having an in house movement, they had to move toward in house movements.  In the end the OP should look at what ever peaks his interest and then go with whatever really makes him smile!

post #38915 of 48312
I'm a huge IWC fan. In fact just having a discussion with my brother last night where he commented the new Galapagos is around 11k, which took me aback since I got the previous version a few years back, BNIB for $6k. Now, the newer version has an in house movement along with other 'advances' but it's almost a 2X leap! That's really hard to swallow personally. I used to view IWC as a pretty decent value for nice looking watches.

What irks me the most, and it's not exclusive to IWC, is the rising cost of the exact same model over the last few years. Almost every brand has seen increases in price for the same models, with no advancement in materials, movements, finishing. Heck they even use the same packaging. So what's the upcharge for? Probably because they can. It's a little bit of a rant, but it's really turned me off watches of late. Unless something REALLY sings to me, I'm holding out. Heck I'll even check the secondary market from now on.

Off my soap box. But that decision of the IWC Port Chrono (newer one), vs the JLC Master Chrono is a very very tough one. Essentially in the same class. I think JLC gets the obvious nod with movement, but the IWC just looks so sweet in the metal. That's a tough call if ever, but I agree with @Dino944 - go with your heart and you'll end up happiest.
post #38916 of 48312
There are a number of IWC models past and present that appeal to me, but I find it unlikely that I will ever own one. Too many other dreams in teh pipeline.
post #38917 of 48312
If not for the cut-off 12 and 6 on the older Port chrono, I may have kopped several years ago. But that always bugged me just enough to give me pause.

Others have no issue with it of course, and this type of nit-picking is always subjective. #ymmv

Also agree with Dino regarding the day-counter windows in newer models that show 3 dates. Not a fan. I believe Cartier's diver, amongst others, is also guilty of this particular....uh...feature.
post #38918 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Cant stop ogling the Zeitwerk. I would probably do some illegal things to own that watch.

 

I actually put the blue dial Zeitwek on my vision board about a year ago. It still hasn't come true, but I havent lost the faith! Come on law of attraction

post #38919 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes View Post

Indeed, when I started this process I didn't think I would buy another nice watch for quite awhile. Not sure if I'll be able to hold off the temptation now. Also, I still want to be able to use the watch in casual settings but by that I mean nice pants and a sweater rather than shorts and flip flops. In short, I'm trying to say that I am putting the most emphasis on having a nice watch to wear with suits.

 

I'm way behind on this thread (good lord @ the frills shots of the ALS platinum and various Patek goodies) but here is a bit of advice if you are new to this thread:

 

Unless you are extremely limited by budget be prepared to not stop kopping after you get a nice watch.  You will likely get hooked.

 

It is a weakness most of us are afflicted with -- this thread will chew you up wearing a timex and spit you out with multiple Rolexes, a Speedy, a 15202 and a then you'll top if off with a Rose Gold DJ II or Patek Perpetual Calendar.  

 

This is of course based on past results.  :nodding:   I am no different (not to the Royal Oak phase YET .... ).

post #38920 of 48312
^^^ LOL. So true.
post #38921 of 48312

Thoughts about this guy as an interview watch for 128?
 

http://wornandwound.com/2012/08/29/review-orient-bambino-er24004b/

post #38922 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnguy001 View Post

What irks me the most, and it's not exclusive to IWC, is the rising cost of the exact same model over the last few years. Almost every brand has seen increases in price for the same models, with no advancement in materials, movements, finishing. Heck they even use the same packaging. So what's the upcharge for? Probably because they can. It's a little bit of a rant, but it's really turned me off watches of late. Unless something REALLY sings to me, I'm holding out. Heck I'll even check the secondary market from now on.
 

 

Absolutely - and this applies pretty much across the board.

 

I think that a lot of watchmakers have realised that you can put a lot of decoration and a bit of other flair in a movement with a display back and perhaps use an in-house movement (even though it may be quite pedestrian mechanically speaking) and charge thousands more per watch for what is, on a per watch basis, not much more in cost at all.

 

Also, I've heard that watch prices have risen a lot over the past decade because of massively increased demand from China and Russia, particularly China. When demand outstrips supply, prices rise.

post #38923 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

Thoughts about this guy as an interview watch for 128?

 
http://wornandwound.com/2012/08/29/review-orient-bambino-er24004b/

I think it's a very nice, classic design. Would have been better if 2mm smaller, though.
post #38924 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post

Absolutely - and this applies pretty much across the board.

I think that a lot of watchmakers have realised that you can put a lot of decoration and a bit of other flair in a movement with a display back and perhaps use an in-house movement (even though it may be quite pedestrian mechanically speaking) and charge thousands more per watch for what is, on a per watch basis, not much more in cost at all.

Also, I've heard that watch prices have risen a lot over the past decade because of massively increased demand from China and Russia, particularly China. When demand outstrips supply, prices rise.

I don't think watch prices will continue to rise as exponentially as in the past few years. My friends in the watch business in Singapore and Hong Kong have remarked at how the slow down in the Chinese economy have really hurt them...
post #38925 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by suaviter View Post

I'm way behind on this thread (good lord @ the frills shots of the ALS platinum and various Patek goodies) but here is a bit of advice if you are new to this thread:

Unless you are extremely limited by budget be prepared to not stop kopping after you get a nice watch.  You will likely get hooked.

It is a weakness most of us are afflicted with -- this thread will chew you up wearing a timex and spit you out with multiple Rolexes, a Speedy, a 15202 and a then you'll top if off with a Rose Gold DJ II or Patek Perpetual Calendar.  

This is of course based on past results.  nod%5B1%5D.gif   I am no different (not to the Royal Oak phase YET .... ).

Ha, yes I am quickly figuring that out! A week ago I thought I would just buy one nice watch and be good to go but now I'm already researching watches after this first purchase. I'm really falling in love with JLC and there are quite a few dressier watches from them that I really want. I also want a Panerai for a casual weekend watch. Still figuring out this first Chronograph purchase though. I haven't been able to compare the IWC Master Chrono vs IWC Portuguese side by side yet so once I find a store that will let me do that it should help me decide.
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