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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2390  

post #35836 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

 

Coming back to the warranty, then, if you're a company that does sell to the grey market, there's no problem.  You don't want to support the AD who's cheating, by backing his brother in law who sold a couple of watches out of the back door.  But honouring your manufacturer's warranty for your trusted grey dealers - people who don't advertise next to your ADs, or even supply the same markets maybe - is no problem.  Those discount buyers still tell their friends about their watches, and looking after them is still in your interest.

 

In conclusion, then, it's worth checking the warranty arrangement as it's going to vary from dealer to dealer and manufacturer to manufacturer: they all have their trusted friends.  But if a watch is on the grey market in any numbers then it's got to be with the maker's blessing, so chances are there's some way of finding it with a warranty.

 

And now, a black-dialled dress watch, just because.  

 

Dino might not love you, Langematik Perpetual, but black or white, you make my heart go boom boom...:)

Hi Mimo, very good post and of course thanks for making me laugh with your final line.  Also, very interesting and good summary of the gray market.   I understand how the gray market works and its purpose.  My main issue is when buying a new watch whether the warranty truly is valid or void.  I am sure lots of people end up going past the warranty period without any problems, and I'm sure there are some that have a problem and get by without the manufacturer determining that it was from a gray dealer and the warranty should technically be void.  Its the people that have a problem and end up with a warranty that is void as far as the manufacturer is concerned that would worry me. 

 

 While I get it that the gray's purpose is to help get rid of the less popular models, I have also seen popular/hard to get models at grays also.    While your guy says, manufacturers "Honor the warranties of their trusted grays,"...I have my doubts about that (at least in some parts of the world).  If there is no advantage to buying from an AD because the Grays sell at a drastically discounted price and the warranty is honored from the gray sale of watches, why buy from the AD or boutique?  On some level, isn't the manufacturer punishing the AD and rewarding the Gray?   It essentially steals sales from the AD, in favor of sales by the Gray. 

 

Obviously, if one buys a new watch from an AD or a Gray one hopes that the shop will stand behind the product and help the consumer resolve a problem should one arise.  However, as mentioned in a previous post, the guy I know saved about $1,200 buying an AP RO chrono from a gray rather than an AD.  However, when the problem arose and the watch needed a repair, AP refused to honor the warranty so it cost the guy out of pocket about $2,000.  So his $1,200 savings was lost and it cost him $800 more than if it were purchased from the AD.  The watch was repaired and eventually all was fine, but it soured my acquaintance on the idea of buying a high end watch from a gray.  

 

I'm all for getting the most for my money.  I just think buyers should be aware that even if a gray dealer give them the warranty papers that go with the watch, it doesn't mean that the manufacturer must or will honor the warranty in the future.  Whether a buyer is willing to take the risk, is something every potential buyer must ask themselves.    

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmo View Post


Good summary.

Also, different jurisdictions come to play. In the EU consumer law, manufacturer is responsible for a product for (don't know the legal term exactly, legal eagles help me here) it's "feasible life cycle", i.e. we might say that a Swiss watch should run perfectly for 3 years. During that time, if it breaks, I can drop it off to an AD for a free fix-up, no matter where I bought it, as long it is 100% genuine thing. It is also up to the AD/manufacturer to prove it's not genuine, if push comes to shove.

Interesting, a link to my profile.  Not sure how you did that but its amusing.

 

I can't speak as to the EU, I don't know anything about the practice there.  Here in the US, without valid warranty papers or a receipt indicating it was purchased at an AD, a watch owner would likely have trouble getting the manufacturer to honor the warranty.  The company will still do the work, but it would end up being an out of pocket expense to the owner.  

 

As for proving a watch is not genuine, its always up to the manufacturer to do that.  In addition, its quite easy for them to do that.  I'm not sure if it is still true, but at least years ago the practice of Rolex and Cartier was to confiscate any fake watch turned into them for service.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

It links to Dino's profile, how about that? lol8[1].gif

:rotflmao:

post #35837 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

 While I get it that the gray's purpose is to help get rid of the less popular models, I have also seen popular/hard to get models at grays also.    While your guy says, manufacturers "Honor the warranties of their trusted grays,"...I have my doubts about that (at least in some parts of the world).  If there is no advantage to buying from an AD because the Grays sell at a drastically discounted price and the warranty is honored from the gray sale of watches, why buy from the AD or boutique?  On some level, isn't the manufacturer punishing the AD and rewarding the Gray?   It essentially steals sales from the AD, in favor of sales by the Gray. 

Can't comment on the warranty question, but don't certain Gray dealers get their stock from ADs? It was my understanding that ADs need to put in minimum orders to carry some lines, often times much more than they can actually sell themselves. They deal with this by selling some stock to Grays (some with, some without stamped warranty papers depending on their arrangements).

That would certainly explain how some well known individual (not stores) Gray sellers (ex. DavidSW) manage to sell BNIB watches with stamped cards on the forums.

Provided the warranty card is stamped and completed with the buyer's info, do brands usually ask for actual proof of purchase, i.e. bill of sale, when you send in a watch that's under warranty?
post #35838 of 48312
They wont ask for proof of purchase but you do need the warranty cards or certificates.

From what I understand, even though Rolex warranty are not transferable, it is still attached to the watch so they will fix it even if the name of the person who sent it in doesn't match the name on the card as long as its stamped properly.
post #35839 of 48312
An update on my watch strap situation...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

This guy is in Napa. But he mostly does stuff for Panerai type pieces...

http://vintagerstraps.com
Very nice guy over e-mail, but I would have to mail it to him and he is not comfortable with taking on the liability. Understandable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

http://www.aprilinparis.us

Bea is terrific and so responsive, but her watch straps start at $400... peepwall[1].gif
post #35840 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post


Can't comment on the warranty question, but don't certain Gray dealers get their stock from ADs? It was my understanding that ADs need to put in minimum orders to carry some lines, often times much more than they can actually sell themselves. They deal with this by selling some stock to Grays (some with, some without stamped warranty papers depending on their arrangements).

That would certainly explain how some well known individual (not stores) Gray sellers (ex. DavidSW) manage to sell BNIB watches with stamped cards on the forums.

Provided the warranty card is stamped and completed with the buyer's info, do brands usually ask for actual proof of purchase, i.e. bill of sale, when you send in a watch that's under warranty?

Hi Wes,

 

Yes, ADs sometimes have to place larger orders if they want to carry certain brands.  Its up to the dealer to sell it.  Yes, some AD do sell inventory to Grays.  However, at least from what I have heard, that is not an approved practice.  There are rumors that it can result in franchise contracts being revoked/cancelled by the manufacturer, the same as if ADs are doing lots of deep discounting.  Some ADs also sell their "Overstock" without the papers, I suppose so they can claim they sold it to a legitimate client, who must have subsequently sold it.  While its a practice that happens, its is not an  approved practice.  

 

As for the value of the warranty, well, if you never have a problem during the warranty period then it won't matter.  In the end, the watch itself is more valuable having all boxes and papers and the worst case scenario is that the current watch owner would have to pay out of pocket for a service or repairs, which are no where near the cost of the actual watch.  

 

In the end, the warranty issue and its validity is a murky area that depends, on the brand, the country in which you reside (Rolex USA seems more strict about parts and other matters, than Rolex in other regions of the world), and luck.  

post #35841 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post


Interesting, a link to my profile.  Not sure how you did that but its amusing.

Blame Mimo's quote, mobiles and fast editing skills :P
post #35842 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hi Wes,

Yes, ADs sometimes have to place larger orders if they want to carry certain brands.  Its up to the dealer to sell it.  Yes, some AD do sell inventory to Grays.  However, at least from what I have heard, that is not an approved practice.  There are rumors that it can result in franchise contracts being revoked/cancelled by the manufacturer, the same as if ADs are doing lots of deep discounting.  Some ADs also sell their "Overstock" without the papers, I suppose so they can claim they sold it to a legitimate client, who must have subsequently sold it.  While its a practice that happens, its is not an  approved practice.  


This is why grey market shops like Joma will not send you the warranty card no matter how much you beg for it.

Prestige willing to do it on Lange and VC gives me confidence just because they have been around for a while and wouldn't really risk their resources if it'll cause any problems. Their other watches liek Omega and JLC are warranted through their own warranty.
post #35843 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

They wont ask for proof of purchase but you do need the warranty cards or certificates.

From what I understand, even though Rolex warranty are not transferable, it is still attached to the watch so they will fix it even if the name of the person who sent it in doesn't match the name on the card as long as its stamped properly.

I had always assumed warranties were only valid for the original buyer and weren't transferable, much the way it is for most consumer goods.

In that sense, I never understood the added value of having an unexpired legit AD stamped warranty card when buying pre-owned.

However, I have noticed that some small boutique brands, i.e. those that specialize in sub $1 000 homages do offer a warranty that's transferable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Hi Wes,

Yes, ADs sometimes have to place larger orders if they want to carry certain brands.  Its up to the dealer to sell it.  Yes, some AD do sell inventory to Grays.  However, at least from what I have heard, that is not an approved practice.  There are rumors that it can result in franchise contracts being revoked/cancelled by the manufacturer, the same as if ADs are doing lots of deep discounting.  Some ADs also sell their "Overstock" without the papers, I suppose so they can claim they sold it to a legitimate client, who must have subsequently sold it.  While its a practice that happens, its is not an  approved practice.  

I can understand how ADs supplying Grays could be frowned upon by brands. But unless another AD snitches, how do brands ever find out, esp if the overstock is dumped w/o papers and never goes back for warranty work? I imagine brands just close their eyes on the practice, well aware that they're part of the problem in the first place.

Otoh, I imagine brands might not be so tolerant towards an AD who sells heavily discounted watches directly to the end consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

This is why grey market shops like Joma will not send you the warranty card no matter how much you beg for it.

Prestige willing to do it on Lange and VC gives me confidence just because they have been around for a while and wouldn't really risk their resources if it'll cause any problems. Their other watches liek Omega and JLC are warranted through their own warranty.

Ashford included the Hamilton warranty card when I bought my Khaki chrono, but it's useless since it's not stamped (they're not a Hamilton AD). Their website explicitely states that the watch is covered by their own warranty though, so it's all good for me.

Besides, the difference between the discounted Ashford price vs MSRP was so significant that I could pay for a full Hamilton factory service myself if I wanted/needed to and still get away with paying less than MSRP. (It helps that Hamilton factory service is surprisingly affordable.)
Edited by Wes Bourne - 9/26/14 at 2:21pm
post #35844 of 48312

Speaking of warranties and servicing watches in general: is it really necessary to have a watch serviced every 3-5 years? Or do you guys just keep banging on if no issues arise?

post #35845 of 48312
Everyone has a different philosophy on this. Mine is if it aint broke....meaning if it's keeping good time and all functions are working then don't bother.

This doesn't apply to dive watches though. If you are in the habit of taking your watches in the water, I would make sure they are under warranty.
post #35846 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post

Still indulging in my new purchase....

I spend some time try to understand how the annual calendar movement works, here is a good article from time zone. http://people.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0016

With their diagrams, I sort of understand how that works, is there a video animation of how that works?

Next step is reading about perpetual calendar movement, interesting that a perpetual movement only has 275 parts compare to 316 parts inside an annual calendar movement.

While reading the specs, the moon phase is accurate to one day off in 122 years! Again, puzzled about how that works, found a blog post on that, 135 teeth instead of 59, but is his explanation of how it works in the movement right?

http://mechmoveonwatches.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/astronomical-moon-phase-122-year.html

here is another wrist shot today. happy.gif PP 5146G
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

anyone can provide some insight into those 2 questions? teacha.gif
post #35847 of 48312
His and hers for the weekend.

ra2urube.jpg
post #35848 of 48312
I'm surprised it is not hers and hers yet smile.gif.
post #35849 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

I'm surprised it is not hers and hers yet smile.gif.

STFU Nuke! She might hear you!
post #35850 of 48312
Something from the 70s today.
33k8wlt.jpg
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