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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2334  

post #34996 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post
 

Well, just to give that expired equine one more kick: to say that GO just set out to copy the Lange 1 seems a bit uncharitable: after all, the small time layout wasn't new - classic complications by Breguet and others had already been there.  Also, the asymmetry with that sweeping power reserve and all, was a feature of Lange's stablemate JLC, on the Master Control Geographic and Reserve de Marche that had been around a few years by then.  Even though the Lange 1 was pre-Richemont, Lange and JLC were both owned by Mannesman then and no doubt sharing resources themselves.  So one could even say that if GO copied the Lange 1 from their neighhours, Lange might equally be said to have copied the MC RDM from their sister company, at least in part.  

 

If we accept that GO and Lange already had equal claim on the idea of a substantial watch with a big date window (they'd been making them together at GUB for fifty years), then it's only really the asymmetry and sweeping power reserve we're talking about - defining characteristics of JLC perhaps?  But just as the Lange 1 is nothing like a JLC, I feel personally that the GO Pano is sufficiently different from the Lange 1 in feel and personality to warrant consideration on its own merits.  And that some elements they share, are a history that belongs to both.

 

Anyway, I appreciate that there's no definitive answer here until Herr Glashuette logs in to say "no, actually I just lifted the whole damn thing - until I saw the Lange 1, I was thinking of going digital...".  Or otherwise.  Maybe GO did go too obvious in making an asymmetric dial soon after the Lange 1.  But given how much else they already shared, I think it's still probably OK to like it.  Or not. Those JLCs are sweet, too :)

 

We will have to agree to agree. :)

post #34997 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tried and True View Post

There are iconic makers of pocket watches and clocks from centuries past rolling over in their graves.
,

Sorry, I didn't realize the OP was considering a clock or pocket watch, hence I was focusing on wrist watches.
post #34998 of 48312
Sorry, duplicate post.
Edited by Dino944 - 8/30/14 at 9:57am
post #34999 of 48312

Hahaha.  The Kraaken wakes!

 

Dino, I love you man.  You and certain others might be in the process of ruining my life, but I've had so much education from this thread over the last couple of years, it might just be worth it. :)

post #35000 of 48312
Interesting discussion. That's why I read TWAT. Well that and the watch photos.
post #35001 of 48312
Unfortunately, I am rained in today, but that allows me to enter into the TWAT discussion for the first time in a while. I guess I will weigh in on the GO PML and Lange 1 conversation. Before continuing, Mimo, Dino, <3.

Between Mimo and Dino I kind of split the baby. Let's start with some pictures:




I think it is pretty clear that GO "copied" the concept of the Lange 1. I really do not buy the argument that the Lange 1 is in any way derivative. Lange 1 was also a trendsetter inasmuch as it is one of the first manufactures to design the movement around the watch. This is why, in my opinion, it is just so darn special. (shitty picture reference):



So, in that regard, I definitely see why Dino thinks the PML is derivative. It is piggybacking on what was an absolutely great design. And the piggybacking is even more clear as the Lange 1 is such a unique design, at least for contemporary wristwatches. There is certainly a difference between "copying" the Rolex Submariner, and "copying" the Ulysse Nardin Freak. In this latter example, the Freak is such an insanely odd watch, that mimicking it in any regard is going to be really, really apparent.

Although I certainly share Dino's beliefs that the PML is derivative, I still think it is a worthwhile watch. It is well made, and it is a very pretty asymmetric watch in the Lange 1 style. I don't see anything wrong with that. One could say that the Patek Nautilus was overly derivative of the Royal Oak--if those watches both came out right now, I kind of feel we would be having a similar discussion. We would be saying "oh, the Royal Oak coined the luxury sportswatch category, it has the crazy integrated bracelet, etc." But over the last forty some odd years, both have become modern classics.

I am not saying that the GO is going to become a classic.

But hell, for a lot of people, Lange just ain't in the cards. I would love a PP perp cal, but that just may not happen. I don't look at the GO and think I wish that I had a Lange 1. Although I certainly would rather have a Lange 1, the GO is a very pretty watch, that I think would serve its owner well.
post #35002 of 48312

@Cant kill da Rooster

 

Yeah, it's an endless font of wisdom - and fiercely argued subjective opinion, informed or otherwise!  I specialise in the latter.

 

As for the pictures, here's something to chew on while we're in Glashuette: visited the Lange boutique in Dubai last week, just for a glass of water.  I share just for you, some "affordable" Langes - kind of.  White gold, all within a few thousand above or below $20k.  


 

Warning: Whole Lotta Lange (Click to show)

Saxonia GMT:

 

 

 

Saxonia Small Seconds:

 

 

 

1815 Up/Down:

 

 

 

1815 (40mm):

 

 

 

1815 (38.5mm):

 

 

 

 

I think I'd be weak with delight at having any of them.  But if I nit-pick, the 1815s have that touch more personality with the Arabic markers and blued hands, which is funny, as I don't normally like the former on a dress watch.  But the 1815 is just the 1815.  Love the Up/Down, and though it's marginal, I think I'd pick the slightly smaller new version of the 1815 small seconds - just sits more neatly on the wrist for me.

 

Beauty pageant:

 

 

P.S. The simple two hand Saxonia in the group shot was just too sterile for me to love at that price, so didn't bother trying it on.

 

Edit: Nuke, the brotherly love is still strong.  But on your last point, I think I would side with Dino on his inevitable reaction: if you really want a Lange 1, then a Pano is going to feel like a substitute until you get one.  And my personal view is that they have sufficient difference to merit love in their own right.  Anyway, this is all awesome.  Thank you. :)

post #35003 of 48312
Very nice Mimo! The 1815 up/down and ss are the gems of the bunch for me, imho. The Saxonia with small seconds is nice, if a touch cold (well, that may be an understatement), but many, that GMT is just not very attractive. It literally does nothing for me.

The 1815s have a ton of character though, and they are, in my opinion, the ne plus ultra of the deck watch style. They are perfectly executed. I certainly prefer the aub/auf though, the cut-off six kind of-sort of bothers me.
post #35004 of 48312
I genuinely prefer the dial layout of the GO to the ALS for the moon phase model. But that's just me and that's just dial layout. I suspect at some point a PML will be in my future and no part of me will yearn for the Lange. Different strokes, etc. Great posts Mimi and Dino.
post #35005 of 48312

I love both.  The Pano because it's truly asymmetrical - whereas the diagram Nuke posted emphasises the mathematical precision of the Lange.  Also, put both in your hand and they are chalk and cheese.  Anyway, there is plenty of love to go around.

 

But don't call me "Mimi".

post #35006 of 48312
My bad buddy, haha. And yeah, clearly the Lange is a step above in many measurable ways, but that is obvious by their price points. I definitely prefer the asymmetry, and I also really like the dark dial version. But yeah, I would not kick either to the curb.
post #35007 of 48312

Having owned both Lange 1 and GO Pano's in the past and being current owner of  watches from both brands, would like to share a few words, if I may. "The Original" is definitely Lange 1 but we can not deny that fact GO is also sharing the same Glashutte heritage (or similar DNA).

 

If money no question and you don't mind 30k+ price tag (or 25k+ if you are lucky to find an AD willing to give you a discount) the real deal is Lange 1, easy answer.

 

But the steel GO Panos (especially in the second hand market with many like new condition examples) between 5-7k are superb bangs for your hard earned bucks. .This is similar to Boxster and 911 dilemma. While 911 is the real thing, I believe Boxster is a better drive and would be a legend on its own if not overshadowed by its older brother. (yes, had/have both as well)

 

I love Lange as a brand and  would love to own almost 80%-90% of its offerings, again, if money was not a question, but it is, at least for me. I can not say the same for GO though; Panos are fantastic watches, some Senators (especially the Perpetual Calendars) are to die for, but there are still many I would not touch, even I had the money to afford each and every.

 

Having said that and putting my rational consumer hat on, I think GO is a better value than Lange.

 

I recommend buying a Pano - a new one with a good discount or a like new example. Better, I would look into Senator Perpetual Calendars. The older models (39mm)in SS are the best values I have seen in the horology world - ever. They are also ultimate dress watches in my opinion. 

post #35008 of 48312

post #35009 of 48312

I really like Breguet numerals on a watch.  I like the Lange Up/Down but just realized the 5 and 7 are ever so slightly shaved.  Not a fan of cut numbers.

post #35010 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post


But don't call me "Mimi"

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