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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2276  

post #34126 of 48312
Yeah, $12-13k sounds about right. Used is fine. I'd be open to trade or sell one or both watches for the next one.

In general I don't like chronos and prefer a date window but those aren't dealbreakers. I usually go by looks first and then look into the movement and other details.

The RO intrigues me, but when I put it on, it didn't speak to me. Maybe I need to try it again? I actually like the 15305 but its out of my price range and my girlfriend hates it. I like the looks of PP and ALS (obviously) but again out of my price range.
post #34127 of 48312

Well, depending on how big you want it, I would suggest checking out different colours in the (39mm, used) 15300, and in particular the silver dial on the(41mm, current) 15400, both available for that price.  The way the light plays of the latter is really something.

 

As for ALS, depending on how you feel about the size, you're not far off a used gold Lange 1815 in the smaller 36mm size for that kind of money: it's quite tall, too, so I suspect it wears a little bigger than the measurement suggests.  And it's a gorgeous gold Lange!

post #34128 of 48312
Thanks! Open to any other suggestions as well
post #34129 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post

I think you both have a point Rolex and Porsche are very similar in that you could say their designers are lazy. The man in the street could hardly tell the difference between 50 years of 911s (slight exaggeration) just as he or she would have as much difficulty distinguishing between 50 years of Datejusts.

cant say i agree here. dont know enough about porche to comment, but i would certainly not call the designers at rolex "lazy." not by a long shot. over the years there have been many slight adjustments to their models, and they are intentionally slight. they are very circumspect about implementing changes, and usually only do so when there is some need, or improvement to be made. they also know that they have a huge following that would be up in arms if they up and changed things drastically.

as a matter of fact, i think its great that petty much all the rolex models can be easily traced back visually to their origins. not many can say that. they found winning designs, and they are very careful with that. i actually wish more companies would stick with their designs longer, instead of burning through designs for new and often not improved models.

i would say a better word to describe the rolex design team is exemplarily mindful.
post #34130 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchen View Post

Thanks! Open to any other suggestions as well


Still need a lot more info. I have not a chrono, date window, not purely dress watch so far, and RO's didn't speak to you. Budget $12-13$K.

 

Off the top of my head the Rolex SD4000 and the Vacheron Overseas might be interesting to you. But I need more info.

post #34131 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post


I think you both have a point Rolex and Porsche are very similar in that you could say their designers are lazy. The man in the street could hardly tell the difference between 50 years of 911s (slight exaggeration) just as he or she would have as much difficulty distinguishing between 50 years of Datejusts. Lamborghini are similar since the Countach I have difficulty telling them apart,
 

This seems rather short sighted.

I will stay away from the brands you mentioned on purpose.

 

If you have a good fundamental design, why screw it up or devalue the design with major changes, constantly?

Look at the Omegas of the 70's they changed like the wind, and could not keep to a coherent design philosophy. Values are not what they could be today.

Compare that to the AP RO, they have been working with a solid design for years, and it has paid off.

 

Lets make the analogy to that of Mercedes.

Mercedes used to not change drastically year over year. The cars used to hold value much better than they do today.

In the past 15 or so years, Mercedes has taken the Hyundai approach where they change the design drastically every 2 or so years.

The values have not held the way the older MBs did.

This is a only my humble opinion.

Maybe I am blowing smoke.

post #34132 of 48312
OK. Don't like Rolex except vintage GMT Master II's with the Pepsi bezel. I like cleaner, easy to read dials. I like vintage or vintage-inspired dials. Looking for something classy but versatile enough to wear with casual outfits.

Lange 1815 looks interesting. A used 1815 up/down might be a stretch price-wise but could work as well. I mean, I really don't know what I'm looking for as I haven't shopped for watches in this price range.
post #34133 of 48312
Buddy, you need to do some research. You need to go out there, look at different models and look into pricing, and then come back here for suggestions.

Because if this is your starting point you're going to get opinions that drag you each and every which way, and most of them are going to be personal opinions.

You first need to decide what it is that you like and what price you can spend, both within a range. And then come here to find out some pros and cons that maybe you were not aware of, before making a final decision.
post #34134 of 48312

Odd you would own a Pelagos but wouldn't like the new SD4000. Seems like you are moving in a dressy direction and away from sports watches, so I suppose that's irrelevant.

 

A couple more off the top of my head to see what your reaction would be to these ones. I'm sticking to new for now.

FPJ Chronometre Bleu (no date though)

JLC Grande Reverso Duo

post #34135 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Buddy, you need to do some research. You need to go out there, look at different models and look into pricing, and then come back here for suggestions.

Because if this is your starting point you're going to get opinions that drag you each and every which way, and most of them are going to be personal opinions.

You first need to decide what it is that you like and what price you can spend, both within a range. And then come here to find out some pros and cons that maybe you were not aware of, before making a final decision.

This probably should have been my response.

post #34136 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Buddy, you need to do some research. You need to go out there, look at different models and look into pricing, and then come back here for suggestions.

Because if this is your starting point you're going to get opinions that drag you each and every which way, and most of them are going to be personal opinions.

You first need to decide what it is that you like and what price you can spend, both within a range. And then come here to find out some pros and cons that maybe you were not aware of, before making a final decision.


Excellent Advice!!!!!

 

It has a better chance of being your watch if you do a good bit of the leg work. In the end you'll stand a better chancer of being alot happier as well.

post #34137 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post


Excellent Advice!!!!!

It has a better chance of being your watch if you do a good bit of the leg work. In the end you'll stand a better chancer of being alot happier as well.

Thanks and agreed. Just wanted a few points of reference for somewhere to start. Will come back after doing some more research and trying on a few more watches. Cheers guys
post #34138 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchen View Post


Thanks and agreed. Just wanted a few points of reference for somewhere to start. Will come back after doing some more research and trying on a few more watches. Cheers guys

 Have fun and good luck with your hunt.

post #34139 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


that was a great post, but the above made me sad in my heart.
looking forward. lurker[1].gif

Thank you my friend.  I was also a bit sad to hear that dealer's opinion of what was truly a beautiful, nearly new, platinum, ltd ed. JLC.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by culverwood View Post


I think you both have a point Rolex and Porsche are very similar in that you could say their designers are lazy. The man in the street could hardly tell the difference between 50 years of 911s (slight exaggeration) just as he or she would have as much difficulty distinguishing between 50 years of Datejusts. Lamborghini are similar since the Countach I have difficulty telling them apart,

But there are makes and I would count Ferrari as one where there models have changed over the years but as Dino says old does not necessarily mean rare or expensive, though by most manufacturers standards all Ferraris are rare.

Where Mimo is right is that most ordinary people have no idea what watch has any value, to the person uninterested in watches Rolex is the best and they may have seen some adverts for that Patek brand.

I think others covered this quite well, but Rolex and Porsche are hardly companies with lazy designers.  There is a difference between evolution and small refinements vs. just throwing away the last design and starting from scratch.  The latter might be a good way to go if you had a crappy platform to work from or there is nothing worth saving.  The advantage to most current owners, is that when a company builds a quality product and which it continues to refine, and the product merely evolves the older models tend not to look so dated and because of that they still look current, and they maintain better resale value (something common to both Rolex and Porsche).  

 

Omega Seamasters of the 1970s, 1980s and into the 1990s were all over the place in terms of design.  The same for VC's sports watches of the 1980s and 1990s.  Values of many  of these fell like a brick because they didn't bother to cultivate a following and refine a design.  Rather they threw the old designs out and went on to the next style making such pieces look dated and stuck in the decades in which they were designed.  Often times people buying on the secondary market don't want something that looks like yesterday's fad, they want something classic and which still looks relevant.

 

I must say, I always find it humorous when people accuse Rolex of being lazy in terms of designs, when we have Patek Calatrava's that although enlarged, most still look a lot like their original Calatravas of the 1930s.  JLC's Reverso line is over 80 years old, and some of its most revered models are the ones that are heavily based on their original designs.  Cartier's Tank is nearly 100 years old, and while there have been variations, their original LC Tank is one of the most celebrated and sought after models.  Then we have AP with the RO and PP with the Nautilus, the former now 42 years old and the latter approaching 40 in less than 2 years.  Hell, GP has gone back to its vintage designs with the 1945 and 1966, and VC has a whole line dedicated to their older designs, Les Historiques.

 

If one prefers brand new concepts and designs, there are many to choose from to suit your tastes.  However, if Rolex is guilty of being lazy, then perhaps one should consider all the other great brands that are lazy.  

 

As for Ferraris, rare and valuable are 2 different things.  You can get a relatively unpopular Mondial 8 for probably about $15,000, a largely unpopular 308GTSI/GTBi (2 valve early fuel injected cars for in the $20Ks), or the quirky 308GT4 2+2 depending on condition for anywhere from $20-40K.  Again all are rare compared to GM's daily out put, but these are models that aren't that popular or collectible in the eyes of many.

 

I will agree all day long that ordinary "NON-watch people"  would not know which watches are valuable or not.  In fact, my post addressing new vs vintage was merely in the context of how the watches may be perceived by top collectors, and not the average Joe.  Perhaps I was not clear enough, but I thought that would have been picked up by my statement "Vintage items, are about more than having the means, it can be about searching and finding something in exceptionally good quality and its condition and completeness (if it has boxes papers) make it relatively rare." My point with the video clip from gone in 60 Seconds is that often collectors want things that others do not have or which they will not see on everyone else around them.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post
 

 

Yes.  What I meant was the fine distinctions with cars as Dino said between two very similar-looking Porsches, but that it still had to be a Porsche.  Whereas fifty years ago, Rolex was a relative Toyota, yet the rarity of a certain model and its developed brand strength since, have made productions oddities into priceless artifacts.  

 

 

Actually, it didn't have to be Porsches.  It could have been Corvettes.  Average people might see a late 1960s or early 1970s and not be able to tell whether its a standard Stingray or an ultra rare, extremely valuable L88. 

 

I'm not sure I get your statement that 50 years ago Rolex was a relative Toyota?  Short of you suggesting they can take a beating in daily use, that's not really accurate.  While prices were a lot less than today, they were not as commonly seen on people the way they are today.  Most people still couldn't afford them because incomes were a lot less than they are today.  Doctors, lawyers, and well to do business men had them, but they were still a lot of money for most people to spend on a watch.

 

Beyond that, if one is simply stating that the values had not spiked on many collectible pieces, that would be true of all brands.  The fascination and research into the rarity of certain model variations, the increase in values, and the demand for vintage watches didn't exist on any level 50 years ago.  In fact, if all of us could get into time machines and go back to the early 1980s to pick up some great watches...I'm sure we would.  Mint condition, vintage perpetual calendar chronographs from the likes of PP, AP, and VC were selling on for roughly $2-3K (which was about the price of a steel and gold GMT or Sub).  Back then they were just old watches.  Today, many of these watches cost six to seven figures to purchase.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkotsko View Post
 

This seems rather short sighted.

I will stay away from the brands you mentioned on purpose.

 

If you have a good fundamental design, why screw it up or devalue the design with major changes, constantly?

Look at the Omegas of the 70's they changed like the wind, and could not keep to a coherent design philosophy. Values are not what they could be today.

Compare that to the AP RO, they have been working with a solid design for years, and it has paid off.

 

Lets make the analogy to that of Mercedes.

Mercedes used to not change drastically year over year. The cars used to hold value much better than they do today.

In the past 15 or so years, Mercedes has taken the Hyundai approach where they change the design drastically every 2 or so years.

The values have not held the way the older MBs did.

This is a only my humble opinion.

Maybe I am blowing smoke.

Spot on my friend!!!  :fistbump:  

post #34140 of 48312
Perhaps I should not have used the term lazy designers, the point I was making was that those two brands products change very little in shape over a very long period and that the uninitiated have difficulty in telling apart models with many years between them. It was not related to value to collectors.
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