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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2216  

post #33226 of 48312
I am in a little jam and I can't figure out what I should do. I have some cash to spend and am looking to add to either my suits or my watches. The first option is outside of this forum, but an owner of a mens suit store that I frequent offered me three Castangia suits for $5000...retail value of $9500.

It's the suit purchase or a new watch:

From a watch standpoint I am looking at:

1) Rolex Submariner
2) Rolex GMT Root Beer with a brown alligator strap
3) Chronoswiss Opus
4) Panerai Luminor

Any thoughts on the four? I currently own a Rolex Datejust Gold & Steel combo.

I am only vaguely familiar with Chronoswiss and Panerai and would love input. I looked at IWC, but nothing spoke to me.

post #33227 of 48312
post #33228 of 48312

CTLION - Seems like you are jumping all over the board on watch decisions.  I personally would eliminate the Chronoswiss as I do not like the design.  The other 3 I would give rounds as my phone background or computer background to see which one you admire more.  The Rolex's will be smaller than the PAM so keep that in mind.  I assume we are trying to stick around the $5K budget so I would almost look for a vintage sub that would suit your fancy.  If you could go up a bit I would get a SubC for the is tough to beat.

post #33229 of 48312

Go with the Sub since you already have a two tone watch. If you want a classy Panerai, go for the Radiomir. The Luminor has zero style, especially when you get to the crowded dial ones.

post #33230 of 48312
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

The plat one is priced very attractively IMHO

Thanks for the feedback Frilly! My intention was exactly to price this watch very attractively - If you consider how much an entry-level plat piece from a top or even mid-range maker would cost (I think of all the high horology makers, Moser has the least expensive platinum watches), and even more so a platinum time-only watch (what more a QP!) from Patek or Lange, then I think the value becomes apparent.

I know you have one (or was it two?) of the Patek ultra-thin QPs, so I'd love to hear your opinion on the movement I'll be using. It's an ultra-thin as well (4.2mm for the movement) and the resulting watch will be 8.5mm, identical to the Patek 5140.

The movement is produced by Parmigiani Fleurier in conjunction with my new Swiss Made brand, Seraphim, and my watch is the only watch in the world to use this movement. The finishing is absolutely top-level (that's what I specified them to do) and gorgeous.

Some 3D renders of the movement - still shown in prototype stage, but the production movements will be finished to an even higher level. The microrotor by the way isn't steel but tungsten, apparently a semi-precious metal and one whose density suits its use for the microrotor. The plat watches will carry 24k gold rotors though.

This last render shows the movement top-plate for the time-only base movement - obviously my perpetual calendar module will have a much more complicated and highly-finished top-plate. Pics soon to come!

If you notice, the movements carry an adjustable-mass balance (what Patek would call a Gyromax), a mark of a true high-grade watch.

Circular-graining, black polishing, perlage of varying sizes, hand-applied anglage, beveled decouvertes around all the holes, flat-polished screws, and circular Cotes de Geneve, among the many forms of decoration I've asked Parmigiani to finish the movements with.

The micro rotor base movement has already been used in such watches as the Richard Mille RM033 (see here and Parmigiani's own elegant Tonda 1950. But this is the first time this gorgeous movement carries a grand complication like the Quantieme Perpetual.

And here's a simplified (for web use) technical drawing of the QP dial, all the usual indications are there - moon phase, hacking seconds, day, date, month, leap year.

Wait till you guys see the case, it's going to be especially beautiful. Vintage-inspired, flamboyant and totally living up to the "Seraphim" name [hint hint] smile.gif
post #33231 of 48312
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

^^ Agree.  There are plenty of steel perpetual calendars at or under that price - from the really cheap Hamiltons etc., the re-tread maker Perrelet at just under that price (not bad looking either), and the odd Breitling.  I saw a NOS IWC in that ballpark too.

But for a platinum perpetual calendar, although there's plenty used in that range - IWC, Blancpain for example - there's nothing I've seen that's readily available under $20+k new.

If this is a new Celadon project, I'd be a bit more wary though: there might not be a lot of platinum perpetual calendars in this price range.  But there are a hell of a lot of people's "grails" right around the $15-20k mark, and whatever the metal, there is a big difference from the first Celadons: new and untried is fair enough at Tudor price, but when it's instead of a Royal Oak or a Lange 1815, I suspect the value proposition will add up rather differently.  Even for the steel one - right up against, say, JLCs and Rolexes, I think it's a hard sell.  Doesn't mean it can't work, but it does mean be careful how much exposure is needed on the stock.

Cheers Mimo. As I recall the only production steel perpetuals around the price range of my own steel watch is the new MontBlanc at circa 12k, and the boutique-only JLC at 20k. Also the GO but that's around the price or higher than the JLC depending where you get it from. With the steel Seraphim I specifically designed the watch based on folks' complaints about the MontBlanc and JLC - subdials way too close together (because of the Dubois-Depraz module), gold indices on a steel watch, and the low-grade movement finishing (can't be helped at that price).

As for the platinum, well the only platinum perps I know of are all well above the 50k mark biggrin.gif

But that's just comparing on price. In terms of movement finishing and the materials used, and the quality I spec'ed, the watches that my new Seraphim should be compared to would be the Patek QPs using the caliber 240 Q (like the 5140, 5139, and 5940) and the Langematik Perpetual. These are all cased in precious metals, use the highest-spec of components, and apply an haute horlogerie-level of finish on their microrotor calibers, similar to my new Seraphims.

This isn't a new Celadon project, but a new and separate brand I'm launching called Seraphim, which is 100% Swiss Made (I'm no Swissophile but in this case because all my suppliers are Swiss, this is something I can guarantee, nope not sourcing dials and hands from some factory in Eastern Europe or Hong Kong smile.gif) Apart from sharing me as a founder, the two brands have nothing else in common.

Well okay they do share a similar sort of aesthetic. A simple, elegant watch, with flamboyant vintage influences (in Celadon this was the textured dial, in Seraphim this will be the curvaceous case with specially-designed teardrop lugs), using the absolute best materials and components and assembled to the highest standards, at a price lower than the mainstream brands because I don't have massive overheads and am happy to share the love with fellow watch heads (my business primarily came about to address my own needs biggrin.gif)

Just like how the Celadon Imperial punches way above its 900 USD price, and can compete with mainstream watches 5-10x its price, likewise does the Seraphim tower way above its competitors in the same price range. I've actually wanted a Langematik Perp (played with one two weeks ago) but didn't like stuff like the roman numerals and lumed hands. So as with most bespoke addicts, I wanted to tweak the watch to my own preferences, thinking that I could improve on a watch design because instead of being designed by a committee, it was now conceived by an enthusiast in the trenches with all of you guys.

So yeah, I commissioned a well-known Swiss watch designer to help me put together this watch (happy to release his name over PM), told Parmigiani I wanted "PF quality" which is their first-grade spec only used for their watches, used the same maker that supplies components to Patek and Lange for my cases, and my watch hands are made by the guys that do Ulysse Nardin's high-end pieces. How can I do all this and still offer these watches at such a price? Because I don't spend huge amounts on unnecessary stuff like celebrity endorsements, sponsoring tennis events, 80 thousand dollar magazine ads etc. I still do the lavish cocktail parties though, out of my own pocket. Who can resist a great party? icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

So I think the great thing with my decision to go for the very best where it matters is that while buyers may not know my brand because it's new (although I have close to 200 happy clients with Celadon - thanks guys biggrin.gif), they do know Parmigiani quality so the only real unknown factor really is the design, which I think can be communicated well over the internet.

Ok stream of consciousness over... for now smile.gif
post #33232 of 48312
And pricing details for the new Seraphim will be forthcoming I assume?
post #33233 of 48312
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

And pricing details for the new Seraphim will be forthcoming I assume?

Yep, it was up there with Frilly's post a couple pages back.

11,800 USD / 8,800 Euro in stainless steel…

and perhaps even more intriguingly…

17,700 USD / 12,900 Euro in solid platinum.
post #33234 of 48312
^ Thanks for that. Sorry I missed it earlier.
post #33235 of 48312
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

^ Thanks for that. Sorry I missed it earlier.

No worries mate! smile.gif
post #33236 of 48312
just picked up a two tone 18k Omega Speedmaster 3310.20 this week.

i tried on a number of Daytonas but they dont feel right on the wrist and for that money they really should. I have another speedmaster and they just feel right to me... and then they are a fraction of the price too so that's always good smile.gif

post #33237 of 48312

-B-, where are you located? And what is your day job that allows you to fund such fantastic ventures? I need to get on your level.

post #33238 of 48312
He's in China, I think.
post #33239 of 48312
Thanks again for your help, everyone. The seller pm'd me to say he now believes I am who I say I am. He had joined SF and pm'd me here but sensibly grew suspicious when I didn't reply. I'm sure I deleted it as I get 1-200 pms a day here -- most of them saying "Thanks for the welcome!" in response to our automatic welcome message. However, the seller isn't sure he wants to sell it. He wants to think about it a couple days and would want Paypal gift if so.

My wife thinks I should just get a new one, in part to celebrating turning 40 and getting tenure, both a few months ago. And we didn't really celebrate either event.

But I've never been a watch guy. (Although, I have been reading up and this thread has taught me a lot. Thanks for that guys.) The most I've ever spent was about $300 on a Vulicain cricket. I also have a few other, much cheaper, old used ones, all not so reliable and w/o any water resistance. Of course, I've spent more on other things... all of which, a watch would probably outlast. And since this is a very durable, reliable, and versatile one, it'd probably get almost daily use. It also would have some minor sentimental value, as I studied in Germany for a while. Plus, I like how "Sinn" means "sense" or "meaning" or "mind" in German.

Hmm... Any advice?
post #33240 of 48312
Yes, go for new in honor of the big four oh!! Dive down the rabbit hole!!
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