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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 2003  

post #30031 of 48312
Hodinkee has a timely review here, posted a few days ago:

www.hodinkee.com/features/three-on-three-manual-dress-watch

They compare the VC Patrimony Traditionnelle vs Journe Chronometre Bleu vs ALS Saxonia.
post #30032 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

My vote is for whichever AL&S really makes you smile. The movements are finished to a level you won't get with the Contemporaine. I also greatly prefer their case lugs and dial. The Contemporaine always strikes me as too austere for a VC, but YMMV.

Agreed! smile.gif This is the best advice. I'm (impatiently) waiting for the new 1815 to hit the ADs so that I can see one. In all honesty, I think I would be happy with any of the AL&Ss I've shortlisted, but hence the conundrum!

I can't entirely explain why I like the Contemporaine quite so much. It's still on my wish list, but has been edged out the way by the others shortlisted. I still suspect I will end up owning one in the future, just not this time round!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foley View Post

Hodinkee has a timely review here, posted a few days ago:

www.hodinkee.com/features/three-on-three-manual-dress-watch

They compare the VC Patrimony Traditionnelle vs Journe Chronometre Bleu vs ALS Saxonia.

Yes; saw it thanks! I do think the review as a whole is ever so slightly biased towards the VC, mostly because it's clear that Ben Clymer has a soft spot for VCs (but who can blame him?)
post #30033 of 48312

I'd take any of the Langes over the Contemporaine.  I suspect I might have felt differently about Traditionelle versus Contemporaine or in general, if I'd see a small seconds version, though. Not that the Contemporaine isn't lovely, I just feel the Langes have a special presence and personality that isn't there with this one.  Which Lange is a much more subjective question.  Follow your heart!  The Dino speaks truth.  

 

At least, mostly.  Regarding the Overseas, there's no question that it's a very different beast to the RO, and empirically, what AP do with the case and bracelet is just on another level.  I haven't played with a Nautilus in person, but I can safely assume the same, I'm sure.  The RO has all these incredibly fine, sharp edges that lock together as a precision instrument in their own right.  That is not how the Overseas feels.  It's heavy, but soft and comfortable like an old slipper - a very different feel to the RO.

 

The size (like the RO) has inflated in the recent models and won't be for all.  Actually, I much preferred the 39mm RO to the 41mm, especially as it would live as a dress watch much of the time.  But even though the new Overseas is even bigger, at 42mm+ and deep enough too, its softer edges make it a lot more friendly under the shirt cuff.  It has that Maltese motif around the bezel, and in that strap, but at a normal glace that's rather less obvious a statement than the shape of the RO, and its integrated bracelet.  Perhaps it is a little obvious, shoving it into those places, but I think it's a subtle enough reference on the wrist, even if it might leap out to the watch nut and his perma-loupe'd eye!

 

Of course there's no question that the Overseas, RO and Nauti are all in the same very expensive ball park for a steel sport/dress watch.  And I won't argue that the latter two have the more exotic finish.  But rather like that impossible Lange choice, I guess it has to come down to the love.  I was really charmed by the oddities of the Overseas, that to someone else will be mere irritations.  Side by side, I might still prefer the RO, I really am not sure.  But I liked the Overseas - and its oddly asymmetric Dual Time variant, rather a lot.  I also rather like that given the massive advertising and product placement by both AP and PP lately, the Overseas is rather less recognisable.  It really would be a very difficult choice.

 

As for the older Overseas, I think the bracelet is lovely and the smaller size might even be better.  I'd have to see them together to know.  One bonus with the older ones is that they can be had mint for $7-8k, which is well under the price of even a used Daytona.  If only they'd always made blue ones...


Edited by mimo - 3/18/14 at 11:45pm
post #30034 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith T View Post

Damn right I busted out the lime green NATO today...when else am I going to wear it?

beautiful strap

post #30035 of 48312
Grey day for the Reverso. Love how the blues hands shift and change with the light...

post #30036 of 48312
Regarding the Overseas chrono, it looks absolutely gorgeous in rose gold on a strap icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

IMG_8151.jpg

The same spectacular mix of beveled brushed and polished surfaces as the AP RO(C). Lovely! But the size is a dealbreaker for me. Just. Too. Damn. Big. Same with the newer 41mm AP Royal Oak Chrono.

Edit: The Overseas blue dial has is very, very nice, and well worth a look if you haven't seen it in person. A friend owns the steel version on a bracelet, the one mimo tried on, and the blue dial is half the attraction!

One of my favourite ADs has been very keen to see a VC on my hand, after selling me two JLCs shog[1].gif He sent me home with this excellent book.

20130828_145820_zps33f05766.jpg

An excellent read, I've come to admire both the VC history and many of their current offerings.

But I would prefer to make mine an AP satisfied.gif And only the 39mm with the old style dial with square indeces will do.

tumblr_mrqtq9SqbL1ryv722o1_500.jpg

Eh, did I mention that I will be unboxing again(!) in the near future?
Edited by NonServiam - 3/19/14 at 2:52am
post #30037 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

IOne of the most distinctive and appealing is the Dual Time.  This one comes on a rubber strap, but with a sweet dark grey gator to switch with.  It's a really pleasant thing to wear, and has plenty of interest with the titanium/steel combo and the proportions of the subdials:

Thank you for the report, mimo! I like your reports smile.gif

My thoughts on the Dual Time differs wildly! I cannot bring myself to like the dial layout. AP has an RO with the same movement and the same dial, and I feel the same about that one.

Vacheron-Constantin-Overseas-Dual-Time-wristshot-thumb-660x440-20983.jpg

ap031_im.jpg

The power reserve is too large. The home time subdial I don't care for at all, with the arab numerals. And the day/night indicator much too visible.

Granted, the slate grey dial of the Overseas soothes the clutter a great deal, but then they had to go and write "AUTOMATIC ANTIMAGNETIC" at 4 o clock. No, no, no.baldy[1].gif

And I'm not a hater of asymmetrical dials, I like my PP 5712 just fine laugh.gif
Edited by NonServiam - 3/19/14 at 4:50am
post #30038 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

Thank you for the report, mimo! I like your reports smile.gif

My thoughts on the Dual Time differs wildly! I cannot bring myself to like the dial layout. AP has an RO with the same movement and the same dial, and I feel the same about that one.

Vacheron-Constantin-Overseas-Dual-Time-wristshot-thumb-660x440-20983.jpg

ap031_im.jpg

The power reserve is too large. The home time subdial I don't care for at all, with the arab numerals. And the day/night indicator much too visible.

Granted, the slate grey dial of the Overseas soothes the clutter a great deal, but then they had to go and write "AUTOMATIC ANTOMAGNETIC" at 4 o clock. No, no, no.baldy[1].gif

And I'm not a hater of asymmetrical dials, I like my PP 5712 just fine laugh.gif

Horses for courses. The AP pictured is the one I own and part of why I bought it was because I liked the asymmetric dial layout!
post #30039 of 48312

Fantastic pics of those VC's, NonServiam!!!

 

I am interested to see how this Mayer vs Maron saga plays out.  The vintage Rolex market has always struck me as incredibly opaque - and if a supposed expert in watch collecting like Mayer can be taken for a ride, well. I suppose the question is - do you think you know more about vintage Rolex pieces than Mayer?  Did he just not go through the standard checks and verifications because he trusted Maron so much?  Did Maron not know he was selling substandard pieces - and if so, what does that say about his supposed expertise?

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/john-mayer-sues-watch-broker-689486

post #30040 of 48312
For today, a rather symmetrical, balanced piece IMHO:

zyravy2u.jpg
post #30041 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by academe View Post

I can't entirely explain why I like the Contemporaine quite so much. It's still on my wish list, but has been edged out the way by the others shortlisted. I still suspect I will end up owning one in the future, just not this time round!
Yes; saw it thanks! I do think the review as a whole is ever so slightly biased towards the VC, mostly because it's clear that Ben Clymer has a soft spot for VCs (but who can blame him?)

As the saying goes "The heart wants what the heart wants."  The Contemporaine is a well made watch, but its austerity doesn't work for me.  One of the things I've always liked are small whimsical details, or interesting case shapes that often distinguished VC from its Big Three brethren.  I suppose I find the details of the Traditionelle more interesting and less austere.  But at the end of the day, if we all chose the same watches, this would be a very boring place.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

 

At least, mostly.  Regarding the Overseas, there's no question that it's a very different beast to the RO, and empirically, what AP do with the case and bracelet is just on another level.  I haven't played with a Nautilus in person, but I can safely assume the same, I'm sure.  The RO has all these incredibly fine, sharp edges that lock together as a precision instrument in their own right.  That is not how the Overseas feels.  It's heavy, but soft and comfortable like an old slipper - a very different feel to the RO.

 

The size (like the RO) has inflated in the recent models and won't be for all.  Actually, I much preferred the 39mm RO to the 41mm, especially as it would live as a dress watch much of the time.  But even though the new Overseas is even bigger, at 42mm+ and deep enough too, its softer edges make it a lot more friendly under the shirt cuff.  It has that Maltese motif around the bezel, and in that strap, but at a normal glace that's rather less obvious a statement than the shape of the RO, and its integrated bracelet.  Perhaps it is a little obvious, shoving it into those places, but I think it's a subtle enough reference on the wrist, even if it might leap out to the watch nut and his perma-loupe'd eye!

 

Of course there's no question that the Overseas, RO and Nauti are all in the same very expensive ball park for a steel sport/dress watch.  And I won't argue that the latter two have the more exotic finish.  But rather like that impossible Lange choice, I guess it has to come down to the love.  I was really charmed by the oddities of the Overseas, that to someone else will be mere irritations.  Side by side, I might still prefer the RO, I really am not sure.  But I liked the Overseas - and its oddly asymmetric Dual Time variant, rather a lot.  I also rather like that given the massive advertising and product placement by both AP and PP lately, the Overseas is rather less recognisable.  It really would be a very difficult choice.

 

As for the older Overseas, I think the bracelet is lovely and the smaller size might even be better.  I'd have to see them together to know.  One bonus with the older ones is that they can be had mint for $7-8k, which is well under the price of even a used Daytona.  If only they'd always made blue ones...

You wax romantically about the Overseas, and I enjoyed your thoughts on the VC.  The choice of any luxury sports watch should come down to which watch really makes the wearer smile.  For me, the current Overseas just seemed inferior to the Nautilus and RO in terms of design and finish.  It was something I hated to see, because I did like the original Overseas, and I am a big fan of VC.  So for me the revised Overseas was a disappointment.  

 

I however disagree with your assessment that "At a normal glance that's rather less obvious a statement than the shape of the RO, and its integrated bracelet."  While the design of the RO and Nautiuls have been around for decades, and the Overseas is the new kid on the block, unless you are in the company of watch collectors or maybe at a high end watch/jewelry boutique, ROs and Nautiluses go largely unnoticed.  If they make statement its a rather quiet one.  The RO and Nautilus use simpler more natural shapes while the Overseas bracelet, has polished edges highlighting the Maltese Crosses, which I find to be a bit too much brand advertising (the bezel would have been plenty).  I generally prefer sports watches on bracelets, but in this case I find the Overseas bracelet to be rather garish...which saddens because in the past I was attracted me to VCs because of their understated designs and ability to fly under the radar. 

 

So my friend, I think we will have to agree to disagree.  I hope that someday VC will bring back something more in line with either their 222 or their original Overseas line.  But if the current model is your current love, I hope that one will some day reside on your wrist. 

 

Actually, the original time only model was available with a blue dial, and IIRC there was a limited edition with a blue dial, but the subdials and chapter ring were black.  I'm sure people with those would want a premium.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

One of my favourite ADs has been very keen to see a VC on my hand, after selling me two JLCs shog[1].gif He sent me home with this excellent book.

20130828_145820_zps33f05766.jpg

An excellent read, I've come to admire both the VC history and many of their current offerings.

Eh, did I mention that I will be unboxing again(!) in the near future?

That is a great book on VC.  A friend who moderates a VC forum recommended it to me years ago.  I have that one and a similar Lange book that was a gift from my former (but now defunct) authorized VC, Lange, Piaget, Panerai, BP, Rolex, Omega dealer.  

 

Details on the unboxing??? :lurk:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

My thoughts on the Dual Time differs wildly! I cannot bring myself to like the dial layout. AP has an RO with the same movement and the same dial, and I feel the same about that one.

Vacheron-Constantin-Overseas-Dual-Time-wristshot-thumb-660x440-20983.jpg

ap031_im.jpg

The power reserve is too large. The home time subdial I don't care for at all, with the arab numerals. And the day/night indicator much too visible.

Granted, the slate grey dial of the Overseas soothes the clutter a great deal, but then they had to go and write "AUTOMATIC ANTIMAGNETIC" at 4 o clock. No, no, no.baldy[1].gif

And I'm not a hater of asymmetrical dials, I like my PP 5712 just fine laugh.gif

I considered the Dual Time at one point, as I think its a very useful complication. However, I prefer the details of the RO.   The VC has too much writing on the dial.  I don't need 4 lines of writing...VC, Geneve, Automatic, Antimagnetic.  I think the slate dial of the VC is cool, and maybe a bit dressier, while the RO dial seems a bit more functional at a glance.  On the RO I like the color distinction between the 31 and 1 on the date subdial, the greater contrast between the day night indicator, the hour and minute hands on the 2nd time zone (rather than just an hour hand), and the graduation and color change of its power reserve.  But again, it comes down to which makes the wearer smile more. 

post #30042 of 48312

Frilly that's hot! With a full complement of pushers, too.  Really works well that way :)  That really is a joy to see every time, Frilly.  I've just spent a full minute admiring the shape of the hour markers.  That's quality.

 

As for the VC debate, well, yes.  I think the 41mm is unnecessarily large for the RO, ditto 42+ for the VC.  But yet I still liked it.  Blue dials are special.  I prefer the VC for the dual time, but I have to say the 39mm ROC, the way those subdials bubble through the trademark tapisserie, I do love it.  That same old TWAT refrain rings true again: "so get both".  *sigh* Maybe one.  One day.

post #30043 of 48312

Dino, we posted at the same time: yes, we can agree to differ indeed, and we don't differ over much.  There's definitely a superior, crisper finish and structure to the RO, and I do love that tapisserie too.  I do think more people recognise the RO shape these days (or worse, confuse it with a Hublot!) than would recognise that Maltese cross shape in a bracelet, but we're coming down to delicious degrees of detail now.  It's all good.  The RO is fancier.  I just like them both for different reasons.  I like the grey OS dual time more than the white RO though - dial colour makes a big difference to me in the same watch somehow; the black RO would probably beat the white OS in dual times for me too.

 

On the flip side again, I'm not so keen on the time-only Overseas, old or new.  The dial's actually pretty flat and boring in itself I think, so it takes the chrono or time zone subdials and their oddities to make it interesting for me.  That's another area where the RO probably wins: every version has that visual interest of the tapisserie, and your Jumbo is of course sublime.  Now that and and Overseas chrono could definitely live on the same winder: so very similar in original concept, yet so very different in outcome.  A slim savoury wafer of Jumbo and a fat Overseas chronoburger, with a sweet, sweet Lange to finish...mmmm....a man can dream...

post #30044 of 48312

Fun history of the overseas: http://www.thehourlounge.com/index.php?module=Thread&action=view&threadid=34564&id=34564&h=af1f24deed1947981bbcea9606c16690&u=37349136e292aa72274ea27527ca3999

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post
 

On the flip side again, I'm not so keen on the time-only Overseas, old or new.  The dial's actually pretty flat and boring in itself I think, so it takes the chrono or time zone subdials and their oddities to make it interesting for me.

Have you seen the time only with the guilloche dial? Nothing flat or boring about it IMO. I'm quite smitten with the white dialed version personally. There is something more sporty about the Overseas 2 that I appreciate, and I quite like the design of the bracelet.

post #30045 of 48312

I haven't, and it seems I should.  And I really liked the bracelet too: just a different animal to the RO, more genuinely sporty, and somehow a bit more laid back and easy.  The RO is sharp and serious and stunning.  The moulded racing seat in a track day special.  The OS also feels expensive, definitely some decent leather in there, but it's the big butt comfort of a premium SUV.

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