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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 1607  

post #24091 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC (Houston) View Post

Hey guys, long time no talk. I've been getting the AP itch again and I think I really want one of these. Model 15400ST.OO.1220ST.02. Anyone have a feel for what kind of discount might be available? I think it retails for $16.9.

I was offered the same watch for $14 with 12 months 0% interest financing recently. That was the first number they threw out; I've seen them for mid-13's new and in the 11's used.
post #24092 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by coxaca View Post

Apologies if I have angered the regs here. I just thought some people might like to see some nice photos of interesting watches. I wasn't planning to post any more photos anyway at this stage. I just thought my three or four recent photo posts would enrich the existing flow on this site. Really surprised and yes, a little miffed, that this was greeted with such consternation. But there you go.

I don't think your photos angered anyone.  However, I thought your comment that "Your job here is done, so we can go back to talking about Submariners"...seemed a bit condescending and snobby.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottcw View Post

Lighten up, Francis.

The name's Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me Psycho.  Any of you guys call me Francis...an I'll kill Ya!  Great movie reference Scott.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post


 And in regards to the Datograph... that is a tough one. Let me try to explain further.

When the new Datograph came out (note: I am ignoring the bigger size--I prefer the size of the older version), it really seemed to have "fixed" the problems with the older Dato. It replaced the hodgepodge of differently sized batons and differently sized roman numerals with stick markers, incorporated a power reserve, and was in general a lot more harmonious. But at the same time, I kind of miss the old Dato. The old Dato was quirky, it was different. Something is lost when brands mainstream their designs. I think a great example of this is the 37mm JLC RDM compared with the new 39mm. The new version is much cleaner, symmetrical, etc. But the old version was just such an odd watch. The old version had so much more character.

And I guess that is what I seem to be drawn more towards--character. Character often drives some people away, but it makes a design endearing to those select few.

There are often trade off that go with newer versions of watches, that sort of "Correct" perceived flaws...however, what some owners or designers see as flaws other's perceive as adding character or an endearing quirkiness.  The Datograph has a beautiful movement, but I've never really loved the overall watch.  A friend had one for a few years.  He eventually sold it (not sure why), but he doesn't miss it at all.  He has since focused more on VCs and Independents.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post

Snapped a pic of my second stellar piece....I have neither the budget nor the inclination to own any more. Between the JLC Master Calendar and the Flieger I think they cover a lot of ground pretty well.

 

 

Love it.  I prefer the 3706 to the revised versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
I'm sorry they abandoned it - I always liked it. It made them instantly recognizable in a sea of black dial pilot watches.

Me too!  I really prefer the squared off hand to the pointy hands on the modern versions.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belligero View Post


For what it's worth, my wrist — which is proportional to my height, not my girth — is generally 7 3/4" around, and I'm fine with wearing a sub-37mm watch when it suits. I feel far more comfortable erring toward more compact than too bulky for watches. In fact, one of the very rare occasions that I've received a comment about a watch was when I was wearing a simple 35mm manual-wind from the '60s, and the words were, "it's nice to see someone your age wearing a normal-sized watch for a change." It was rather encouraging to hear, considering it was coming from my boss' boss.
The squared-off hour hand certainly was a recognizable feature, but it wasn't IWC's signature, it was the British Ministry of Defence's.

IWC certainly wasn't the only company to make pilot's watches to the rather specific MoD 6B/346 specification:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





photos from markeleven.com

IWC's Mark __ series became somewhat conflicted in design following the Mark XV. Later watches retained the British MoD case and naming convention, but changed to the fashionable German B-Uhr-style dial and hands popularized by the Big Pilot — thus creating a bit of a clash for those that appreciate pilot's-watch history.

 

 Sadly, coherent design doesn't seem to have been much of a priority since Richemont bought them out, but I doubt they suffer many sleepless nights over it.

Don't forget that this is the same company that simultaneously produced "Mercedes-AMG" and "Climate Change Action" editions of the same watch. I'm beginning to suspect that they do this stuff on purpose as some sort of in-joke.

I know there have been numerous debates large watches vs. small, and also discussions relative to a person's build so I don't want to rehash that.  However, I agree with your boss that its nice seeing people wearing normal sized watches.  For me the sweet spot for watches seems to be between 36 and 40mm (+/- depending on the watch).   

 

Thanks for the info on the origins of the squared hand design. I agree with your comments on IWC post Richemont. Its sort of sad, as I used to want an IWC for my collection at one point.  However, none of their current offerings really speak to me enough that I'd pull the trigger. For IWC fan's I'm not saying they don't make anything nice...just their older designs were more appealing to me. Hence if I decided to get an IWC, I would probably try to find a vintage piece that called to me.   

post #24093 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by djh View Post


I was offered the same watch for $14 with 12 months 0% interest financing recently. That was the first number they threw out; I've seen them for mid-13's new and in the 11's used.

Sounds about right to me.  If possible, I'd go for a new one with a full warranty.  Repairs/service is expensive on these pieces, so savings can quickly be lost if a watch has been mistreated or something goes wrong.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

no sure on what discounts are available off hand, but you can get it from prestige time for 20% off retail. that being the case, you could probably find B&M places that would go to 15% back. whatever the price, its a great looking AP.

I think he could get 20% off at B&M places if he shops around. Its a nice watch, but not one of their really tough models to locate or obtain (other than the purchase price wink.gif) I'd go through an AD, and want a full warranty, without any questions about it.  I know a guy that bought a RO Chronograph through a gray dealer, saved about $1,000 more over his AD's best price.  However, he had problems with the watch and then b/c not purchased through an AD, AP would NOT honor his warranty even though it was a new watch.  By the time he was done with servicing/repairs it was beyond any savings he got through his gray.  I believe he said the repairs/service was about 1,800 so he would have saved money had he purchased through an AD and had a warranty that AP would honor.  In addition to the 2 year warranty, if your register your watch with AP and you bring it in for (what I believe is a free service/inspection) before the 2nd year warranty ends they will extend your warranty by an additional year.   

post #24094 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Sounds about right to me.  If possible, I'd go for a new one with a full warranty.  Repairs/service is expensive on these pieces, so savings can quickly be lost if a watch has been mistreated or something goes wrong.  
I think he could get 20% off at B&M places if he shops around. Its a nice watch, but not one of their really tough models to locate or obtain (other than the purchase price wink.gif
) I'd go through an AD, and want a full warranty, without any questions about it.  I know a guy that bought a RO Chronograph through a gray dealer, saved about $1,000 more over his AD's best price.  However, he had problems with the watch and then b/c not purchased through an AD, AP would NOT honor his warranty even though it was a new watch.  By the time he was done with servicing/repairs it was beyond any savings he got through his gray.  I believe he said the repairs/service was about 1,800 so he would have saved money had he purchased through an AD and had a warranty that AP would honor.  In addition to the 2 year warranty, if your register your watch with AP and you bring it in for (what I believe is a free service/inspection) before the 2nd year warranty ends they will extend your warranty by an additional year.   

Thanks to all for the helpful replies. I think you've convinced me to go the AD route. We only have one in Houston and I have not dealt with them before, but now that I have a baseline for what's doable I may venture in. I guess if they're not competitive I can start making some phone calls. Thanks again!
post #24095 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

By the way Frills, have you got your eyes set on completing the 5004 trinity smile.gif.

 

I saw that post from TPP.  That's a 5004 in stainless steel: a perpetual calendar split seconds chrono powered by the CH 27-70, a Patek-modified Lemania based-movement.  Limited to just a few pieces, so it regularly trades - if you can even find one - in excess of a quarter of a million dollars or so.  

 

Pluses:

 

1.  The split seconds chrono complication is supposedly one of the most challenging complications to execute; I don't have one in my stable, but I don't feel a deep yearning for one at this point (wallet thanks me profusely).

 

2.  I do like the baton markers for this version of the 5004's dial.  Most 5004s come with Arabic numerals like this:

 

Intel(R) JPEG Library, version 1,5,4,36

 

Which for whatever reason works for the 5070 but doesn't quite work for the 5004, at least for me.  

 

On the con's side:

 

1.  Mentioned the crazy pricing already.  The TPP post noted that the 5004 isn't simply a 3970 on steroids, but aesthetically the 3970 (for me) matches the 5004 point by point (and exceeds it, in my eyes, if the 5004 dial came with the Arabic numerals above):

 

\

 

2.  The 5004A is in stainless steel - and it's priced at $200 to $250K or more if you can even obtain one (Patek manufactured it in such limited quantities and actually engraved the owner/buyer's name for many of them).  That's a six figure or so premium versus a 3970 in platinum.  

 

I get that the split seconds chrono complication has its merits, but versus the 3970 in platinum, I just can't get over the six figure premium to obtain a 5004... in stainless steel.

post #24096 of 48312
Because TWAT loves a good story to accompany pics (of a watch that doesn't cost 6 figures)…

I had never been a Tag Heuer fan, mostly because of memories of all the fugly Link watches I saw in the 90s. However, I've recently been drawn to vintage (pre-Tag) Heuer dive watches, spending many hours looking at their old divers online. One blog led to another, and before I knew it I wasn’t looking at a diver anymore, but a chrono. More specifically the CS3110, a re-edition of the 1964 Carrera 2447D*:




Here's one for dopey; the movement should look familiar...


The pics above, along with some good info and specs of the watch can be found here:
http://www.calibre11.com/heuer-carrera-1964-re-edition/
http://www.chronomaddox.com/heuer/articles/carrera_article/_carrera_pt5.html#The_1990's
http://www.onthedash.com/docs/CompareCarreras.shtml

Everything about it is awesome and I think the dial/subdials layout looks as well balanced as the more frequently discussed Speedmaster Pro and Daytona.

Of course, it could have ended there, with me just adding the above links to my Favorites and looking at pics of the CS3110 from time to time, but a casual comment to a good e-buddy great e-uncle (or 'some shady guy I met on the interwebz', as he refers to himself) changed all that…

It just so happens that he has a minty one tucked away, purchased new in 2000 and worn only a handful of times since. A sort of outcast among his awesome collection of IWC, Rolex and Panerai pieces. The case is a bit small for his liking, something that would actually suit me fine.

An amazing offer was made if I wanted to purchase the watch. Still, there was some hesitation on my part because I had already been considering ridding him of another one of his not oft-worn watches (hopefully, that'll be the subject of another TWAT post in the future). In the end, the Heuer won and I'll be picking it up next week.

Finally, this is something I wasn't aware of, but thought could be of interest to others: http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/something-to-consider-2013-is-the-50th-anniversary-of-two-majorly-important-watches-the-carrera-and-the-Daytona

*As the name implies, the Carrera re-edition was a faithful reproduction of the original 1964 Carrera (at the time, TAG Heuer believed that the Carrera had been launched in 1964 not 1963- it was only recently after earlier materials were found in the archives that the date was confirmed as ’63).
http://www.calibre11.com/tag-heuer-carrera-series-overview/
post #24097 of 48312
Good luck, TC. We look forward to seeing it when you buy it. smile.gif
post #24098 of 48312
wow....TC needs to get out of my head. I havent checked the thread in ages and came in to post a question about a couple APs im looking at....Any thoughts on the 15300st vs the 15400st? I cant decide on the size...the 15300 is 39mm and the 15400 is 41mm. I really wish they had something in between at 40mm. Anyone have experience trying on both? I recently cleared out a lot of my watches and want to fund one special piece.
post #24099 of 48312
Wes Bourne - congrats on that very cool looking Heuer!

post pics when you get it..
post #24100 of 48312

That Tag is nice looking.  The word that actually came to mine when looking at it was "refreshing".  The blue on silver dial is a nice touch.  

 

Disclaimer:  Most of the stuff I own is blue.  Wardrobe is mostly blue, new watch is blue, pen color choice is blue, car is surprisingly graphite but doesn't come in blue. 

post #24101 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC (Houston) View Post


Thanks to all for the helpful replies. I think you've convinced me to go the AD route. We only have one in Houston and I have not dealt with them before, but now that I have a baseline for what's doable I may venture in. I guess if they're not competitive I can start making some phone calls. Thanks again!

Glad to help.  If you aren't happy with your AD, send me a PM and I'll give you the name of the AD I used.  I have only purchased my 1 AP from him (he is the owner), but he has a great reputation and is a pleasure to deal with.  He was very straight forward, and there was none of the jerking around that I got from a few well known NYC ADs.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

I saw that post from TPP.  That's a 5004 in stainless steel: a perpetual calendar split seconds chrono powered by the CH 27-70, a Patek-modified Lemania based-movement.  Limited to just a few pieces, so it regularly trades - if you can even find one - in excess of a quarter of a million dollars or so.  

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Pluses:

 

1.  The split seconds chrono complication is supposedly one of the most challenging complications to execute; I don't have one in my stable, but I don't feel a deep yearning for one at this point (wallet thanks me profusely).

 

2.  I do like the baton markers for this version of the 5004's dial.  Most 5004s come with Arabic numerals like this:

 

Intel(R) JPEG Library, version 1,5,4,36

 

Which for whatever reason works for the 5070 but doesn't quite work for the 5004, at least for me.  

 

On the con's side:

 

1.  Mentioned the crazy pricing already.  The TPP post noted that the 5004 isn't simply a 3970 on steroids, but aesthetically the 3970 (for me) matches the 5004 point by point (and exceeds it, in my eyes, if the 5004 dial came with the Arabic numerals above):

 

\

 

2.  The 5004A is in stainless steel - and it's priced at $200 to $250K or more if you can even obtain one (Patek manufactured it in such limited quantities and actually engraved the owner/buyer's name for many of them).  That's a six figure or so premium versus a 3970 in platinum.  

 

 

 

I get that the split seconds chrono complication has its merits, but versus the 3970 in platinum, I just can't get over the six figure premium to obtain a 5004... in stainless steel.

The Split seconds chrono function is very specialized, no doubt about it.  However, I just don't think I could find enough joy in having one if I already had a 3970P. Besides, I would rather have a platinum case than SS.  I love the heft of platinum and knowing that as a metal it's rarer than steel or gold, its tougher to mine and work with, than gold and again I just can't get away from its heft...love it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post

Because TWAT loves a good story to accompany pics (of a watch that doesn't cost 6 figures)…

I had never been a Tag Heuer fan, mostly because of memories of all the fugly Link watches I saw in the 90s. However, I've recently been drawn to vintage (pre-Tag) Heuer dive watches, spending many hours looking at their old divers online. One blog led to another, and before I knew it I wasn’t looking at a diver anymore, but a chrono. More specifically the CS3110, a re-edition of the 1964 Carrera 2447D*:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 





Here's one for dopey; the movement should look familiar...


The pics above, along with some good info and specs of the watch can be found here:
http://www.calibre11.com/heuer-carrera-1964-re-edition/
http://www.chronomaddox.com/heuer/articles/carrera_article/_carrera_pt5.html#The_1990's
http://www.onthedash.com/docs/CompareCarreras.shtml

Everything about it is awesome and I think the dial/subdials layout looks as well balanced as the more frequently discussed Speedmaster Pro and Daytona.

Of course, it could have ended there, with me just adding the above links to my Favorites and looking at pics of the CS3110 from time to time, but a casual comment to a good e-buddy great e-uncle (or 'some shady guy I met on the interwebz', as he refers to himself) changed all that…

It just so happens that he has a minty one tucked away, purchased new in 2000 and worn only a handful of times since. A sort of outcast among his awesome collection of IWC, Rolex and Panerai pieces. The case is a bit small for his liking, something that would actually suit me fine.

An amazing offer was made if I wanted to purchase the watch. Still, there was some hesitation on my part because I had already been considering ridding him of another one of his not oft-worn watches (hopefully, that'll be the subject of another TWAT post in the future). In the end, the Heuer won and I'll be picking it up next week.

Finally, this is something I wasn't aware of, but thought could be of interest to others: http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/something-to-consider-2013-is-the-50th-anniversary-of-two-majorly-important-watches-the-carrera-and-the-Daytona

*As the name implies, the Carrera re-edition was a faithful reproduction of the original 1964 Carrera (at the time, TAG Heuer believed that the Carrera had been launched in 1964 not 1963- it was only recently after earlier materials were found in the archives that the date was confirmed as ’63).
http://www.calibre11.com/tag-heuer-carrera-series-overview/

 

 

 

Great story, congrats on your Heuer.  I'm sure it will bring you many years of enjoyment. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekS View Post

wow....TC needs to get out of my head. I havent checked the thread in ages and came in to post a question about a couple APs im looking at....Any thoughts on the 15300st vs the 15400st? I cant decide on the size...the 15300 is 39mm and the 15400 is 41mm. I really wish they had something in between at 40mm. Anyone have experience trying on both? I recently cleared out a lot of my watches and want to fund one special piece.

Yup, tried them both.  Each have their merits.  You really need to try both on as they fit differently.  Also, IIRC the inner part of the butterfly clasp is different.  Some people did not like the feel of the butterfly clasp on the 15300 on the underside of their wrist.  It changed for the 15400 and I think is more comfortable...but some people were ok with the 15300 clasp.  The watches also feel different based on size and where the ends of the case fall on your wrist may differ significantly.  Also, I'm not sure that the blue or the white/silver dials are the same colors.  Its noted that the blue used on the 15400, 15202, and the new 41mm Royal Oak Chronograph (I forget the ref number) all use different shades of blue.  There are elements of each that I favor so I think you really have to see which fits you best and which you like more.  I prefer the dial of 15400 and (as silly as this sounds, the shape of the tail to the sweep seconds hand).  However, I think the 15300 proportionally is a bit more attractive (not due to fit, just in general).  The 15400 sometimes looks a bit distorted compared to the original 39mm size of the 15300....but it never looks bloated or fat in the way I find a Rolex DJII does next to a DJ.  That being said its very close between the two of them.  Both are exceptional in terms of fit and finish, its just a matter of deciding which suits you best. 

post #24102 of 48312
Actually "refreshing" is spot on!

I also am of the cool color persuasion - blues, greys, and my previous two cars have been graphite, but my current one is black..

Most of my watches complement what I usually wear I suppose (for better or worse..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarwick View Post

That Tag is nice looking.  The word that actually came to mine when looking at it was "refreshing".  The blue on silver dial is a nice touch.  

Disclaimer:  Most of the stuff I own is blue.  Wardrobe is mostly blue, new watch is blue, pen color choice is blue, car is surprisingly graphite but doesn't come in blue. 
post #24103 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Yup, tried them both.  Each have their merits.  You really need to try both on as they fit differently.  Also, IIRC the inner part of the butterfly clasp is different.  Some people did not like the feel of the butterfly clasp on the 15300 on the underside of their wrist.  It changed for the 15400 and I think is more comfortable...but some people were ok with the 15300 clasp.  The watches also feel different based on size and where the ends of the case fall on your wrist may differ significantly.  Also, I'm not sure that the blue or the white/silver dials are the same colors.  Its noted that the blue used on the 15400, 15202, and the new 41mm Royal Oak Chronograph (I forget the ref number) all use different shades of blue.  There are elements of each that I favor so I think you really have to see which fits you best and which you like more.  I prefer the dial of 15400 and (as silly as this sounds, the shape of the tail to the sweep seconds hand).  However, I think the 15300 proportionally is a bit more attractive (not due to fit, just in general).  The 15400 sometimes looks a bit distorted compared to the
 
original 39mm size of the 15300....but it never looks bloated or fat in the way I find a Rolex DJII does next to a DJ.  That being said its very close between the two of them.  Both are exceptional in terms of fit and finish, its just a matter of deciding which suits you best. 

thanks a million D. Looks like ill be checking them out saturday. Also getting a little tempted by the Scuba too.
post #24104 of 48312

It's hard to describe the Spring Drive experience without video. 

 

post #24105 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post


thanks a million D. Looks like ill be checking them out saturday. Also getting a little tempted by the Scuba too.

My pleasure, Bro.  The Scuba is a handsome piece also.  It's the only Offshore model that I really like.  Its only downside is its not as versatile as the 15300/15400, but depending on your job and life style it could be the right choice.  I would probably go for something from the original Royal Oak design, and then...if you can add another AP later then maybe get a Scuba.  But that's just me.  No matter what, you can't go wrong.  Every time I look at my RO I am truly impressed with the workmanship, and I can see why these watches are so expensive.  

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