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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 1559  

post #23371 of 48312
The Longines Master Collection Retrograde Moon Phases straight onto my wrist today, probably wear it to bed too.... biggrin.gif

got to say, I would have trouble reading the dial when my eyesights wanes.... better enjoy it fully when I can.

post #23372 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Funny . . . that is how I feel about date mechanisms generally. They don't really work and having to adust them at the end of every other month is proof. You wouldn't think the time keeping mechanism of a watch worked if it was off by an hour every other day and you had to adjust it yourself. Same with a date mechanism that doesn't know how many days there are in a month.
So are you o.k. with ordinary 31 day date wheels?

im totally cool with a regular date function. i use it multiple times each day and find it far more convenient than having to find and grab my phone and press the home key to see the date. having to change it once a month, or when i switch watches is no biggie.

i actually enjoy setting and tinkering with my watches. part of the enjoyment for me is doing that, and feeling how smoothly and nicely the adjustments are and feeling like i am using the tool part of the watch, not just the jewelry part. and bye the by, anyone who thinks luxury watches are not jewelry is only fooling them-self

I would not wear a watch that does not have a date display to work, as Stitchy said, it's far more convenient to find out the date then checking the phone, and I date contracts multiple times during the day.
post #23373 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

im totally cool with a regular date function. i use it multiple times each day and find it far more convenient than having to find and grab my phone and press the home key to see the date. having to change it once a month, or when i switch watches is no biggie.

I only have one watch with a date function, but I've found you don't really have to change it once a month ;-)
post #23374 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaplan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

im totally cool with a regular date function. i use it multiple times each day and find it far more convenient than having to find and grab my phone and press the home key to see the date. having to change it once a month, or when i switch watches is no biggie.

I only have one watch with a date function, but I've found you don't really have to change it once a month ;-)

I knew a guy who was bitching about having to change the date on his watch every month.
I told him he only has to do it 5 times per year.
He had no idea wtf I was talking about.

Right now we're in that glorious 92 day stretch of not having to change the date on our watch.
post #23375 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaplan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

im totally cool with a regular date function. i use it multiple times each day and find it far more convenient than having to find and grab my phone and press the home key to see the date. having to change it once a month, or when i switch watches is no biggie.

I only have one watch with a date function, but I've found you don't really have to change it once a month ;-)

I knew a guy who was bitching about having to change the date on his watch every month.
I told him he only has to do it 5 times per year.
He had no idea wtf I was talking about.

Right now we're in that glorious 92 day stretch of not having to change the date on our watch.

yeah, never thought about it like this since there are 31 days months half the year, and I wear date watches everyday... worship2.gif

Thanks for pointing that out, I feel even better about watches with date now.
post #23376 of 48312
Actually, most people with mechanical watches will probably have to set their watches at least 5 times a year anyway, depending on their tolerance for not having the precise time :-)
post #23377 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

Really a super handsome watch!!!  The lug would bother me, but condition and what satisfies is a balancing act on older watches.  Finding LNIB becomes really tough once you are talking roughly 40+ year old watches.  Most people didn't buy watches back then as any type of investment.  They were worn and often saw a lot of use or at times abuse.  Wishing you lots of luck (or will power) whatever you need most to make the right choice for yourself.  

 

You're absolutely right, of course.  A really difficult balancing act especially with the older watches.  The other issue with this piece is that it's not complete - no box, no papers.  It's being offered at a fairly steep discount because of this, versus the $30K+ numbers I see for complete pieces, but that does make me hesitate because I'll encounter the same hurdle in reselling the piece if I'm unfortunate enough to have to let it go at some point in the future.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

I suspect its mostly the angle and possibly that its a tad taller than a Sub (I forget if the case is thicker, but crystal is definitely thicker/taller).  The added height of the crystal changed the distance of the cyclops to the date opening, which then screwed up the magnification, hence Rolex decided not to put a cyclops on Sea-Dwellers.  But diameter should be the same 40mm as say a Submariner, as I believe the early ones, which are the double red Sea-Dweller Submariners were sort of a modified Sub.  Even later ones were the same diameter as a Sub...just a different thickness.  

 

Yes, angles and the way the crystal is thicker/taller/bubbles up.  Feels like the same size as my 5711, although it is of course thicker/higher so different presence on the wrist.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kungapa View Post


Frills, like new or really good-looking unpolished cases would be hard to find on the older vintage rolexes. Check this discussion on VRF for reference, and be careful:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1361559099/Laser+Welding

 

Oh this is awesome.  Thanks for sharing, kungapa.  How have you been?  Are you in NYC much these days?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

And Frills. Just spectacular collection.

I do have a question though. Do you find that with your acquisition of your Patek perp-cal chronos, that your perpetual calendars have been rendered... obsolete? Or is there enough love in your heart for all of them? Personally, I have always been challenged by that concept. I am more of a single love kind of guy.

 

Great question, NukeDino captured my thinking/feeling in his post below; offers enough diversity given the range of metals, case shapes, and little nitpicky details (the fact that the 5040J offers that tonneau shape, display back and track around the dial - all of which the 3940P does not - gives it cool variety for me)... it certainly satiates my need for diversity when I need a little bit of a change.

 

And since I sweat a ton, I find that I rotate across leather straps pretty much every day to give each of them a rest.  If I wear the 3970 in yellow gold on a Monday and don't get to wear the 3970 in platinum till Thursday, I am yankering to have it on my wrist by the middle of the week!  Just my personal feeling.

 

I am not immune to feeling like other pieces are rendered obsolete: in fact, I used to own two very basic Calatravas and when I was gunning for the perp-cals, I just felt that they won't get any wrist time anymore.  So I traded them in to help finance the perp-cals and future acquisitions.  Regret always comes in retrospect so I'm fortunate that I don't miss the Calatravas one bit.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino944 View Post

 

Personally, I don't care for annual calendars.  Yes, less expensive and allows more people to get close to owning a "Perpetual Calendar"...but to me go big or go home!  If I can't afford the real deal, I don't want a near imitator.  I know not everyone will like that answer, but that's where I stand on that issue.  YMMV.  

 

If one considers Perpetual Calendars vs. Perpetual Calendar Chronograph, at least the ones Frills has there is enough diversity to like each of them (Although the 3970 is the same, just in diff metals).  With the Perpetual Calendars he has he gets an automatic movement, classic design with the 3940, the tonneau case gives its sibling a completely different feel...and the 3970s cover all the bases...and gives one some additional personal time winding the crown to get its day started with your own.

 

+1 to Dino's read of how I feel about the diversity of my current pieces.  Totally captures what I wanted to express.

 

As for perp cal versus annual cal - I feel the same way, with one caveat: if the annual calendar does offer an interesting "look," I'd consider it.  Aesthetics versus the level of complication - because if it was all about the level of complication the perp cals will always (by definition) win the day.  For example, the 5205 annual calendar offers an interesting "modern" take on Patek calendar complications (pics from PuristS, etc):

 

 

A more "modern" readable dial, bigger case (versus the 36mm case of the 3940), a nice sweeping seconds hand (which the perp cals from earlier generations did not have, not counting the retrograding 5059s, etc). 

 

And look at the very interesting design of the pierced lugs!

 

 

My problem with the 5205 is Patek's current pricing.  Retail of $49,500!  Even pre-owned, it's rare to get this one for under $40K.  For those prices you can easily find a mint, complete 3940 perpetual calendar in yellow gold - an absolute Patek classic.  White gold in the low to mid $40s if you're a white metal kind of guy.  So with this kind of relative price differentials... you're not even "going big" necessarily... for the same price, you can get either an annual calendar... or a perpetual calendar.  If that's the game, then it's perp-cals for me all day long. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

as to your point on annual calendars, im afraid i dont see it that way. for example, JLC and blancpain both make beautiful annual calendars that imo have nothing to do with a perp cal, and are in no way failing to go big. they are wonderful watches that provide the day, date and month, and as a bonus they provide the convenience of once yearly only adjusting.

now, there are certainly annuals that look like a poor mans perpetual, but i find those are in general the ones that are all sub dials, like many of the PP annual calendars. those do usually fall flat for me, and do seem to be almost what they want to be but not quite. however, the ones that use windows and arrows are often really nice and instead of a poor mans perp, they are more like a rich mans day date.

 

Yeah - as long as the aesthetics are cool/different enough and there's a price differential that I can live with, I can see myself going for an annual calendar. 

 

For example, if the 5205G was priced in the low to mid $20s (where older annual calendars are trading in the secondary market - see for example the 5035), then vis-a-vis the $40K that you need to ramp up to a pre-owned 3940, well, that complication-to-value ratio makes sense to me.

 

But if we're comparing an annual calendar with interesting aesthetics for more or less the same price as a mint perpetual calendar from the same manufacturer - whoa.  It's perp-cal for me. 

 

So let's pick an annual vs perpetual calendar with comparable aesthetics but some price difference, to make the thought experiment interesting.  Let's pit the 5146 versus the 3940.  Currently in production, the 5146 trades more cheaply than the 5205 in the secondary market - so a yellow gold can probably be had in the mid- to high $30s.  But, with a bit of negotiating you can probably get a 3940 in yellow gold for $40K or maybe slightly less.  So for that $2,000 to $5,000 difference, at those price levels, would you rather have this:

 

Patek 5146J - annual calendar.  Cal 324 self-winding movement:

 

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 80

 

 

Or this?  Patek 3940J - perpetual calendar.  Cal 240 self-winding movement.

 

 

 

For me - and I suspect, for Dino as well, but I might be wrong - I'd pay the differential to get the perpetual calendar.  $2,000 to $5,000 is still a lot of money, though in percentage terms once you get to the mid-$30s it's relatively more palatable/acceptable.

 

But I am not sure others would feel the same way!  What do the TWAT folks think?

post #23378 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaplan View Post

I only have one watch with a date function, but I've found you don't really have to change it once a month ;-)

lol, too true.
---
wurger, the new watch looks great on ya!
post #23379 of 48312
frills, the 5205 is very cool. and its just like i mentioned (sorry for the arrogance that probably implies), annuals with window displays are often very cool, and would be desirable to me even if i had perps.

as to the two you juxtaposed, no question there. perp cal by miles.
post #23380 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

I knew a guy who was bitching about having to change the date on his watch every month.
I told him he only has to do it 5 times per year.
He had no idea wtf I was talking about.

Right now we're in that glorious 92 day stretch of not having to change the date on our watch.

 

Heh, that's right.

 

And as for perpetual calendars, if you have it serviced often (every 3-4 years?) you might not even enjoy that "leap year benefit" in year 4!

 

Personally I won't get the perp-cals serviced that often though.  I rotate often and don't keep them on a winder; figure once every 6-8 years would be fine.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post
yeah, never thought about it like this since there are 31 days months half the year, and I wear date watches everyday... worship2.gif

Thanks for pointing that out, I feel even better about watches with date now.

 

I am the one who adjusts my wife's date watches when the number of days in the month shifts, so I am keenly aware of the required frequency of adjustments.  Haha!

 

Watch looks good on you, wurger!

post #23381 of 48312
Today smile.gif

1872483116dd0ef76bf319d4e7288ba4_zps64fcd875.jpg
post #23382 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonServiam View Post

Today smile.gif

JLC on a strap! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

Looking good!  Are you wearing shorts in this pic?  I've never understood why some folks think that a yellow gold classic timepiece on a brown leather strap won't work well for shorts / casual attire.  Really depends on how the individual carries it!

post #23383 of 48312
NonServiam - that JLC inlove.gif nice gleam on the case too.
post #23384 of 48312
I am indeed! Shorts and an H&M button down wink.gif I am rarely anything other than casual. Work or play. Today I went shopping in town, and right now I'm cooking dinner, timing with the JLC.
post #23385 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post


opps, yeah, my speed reading made me look the fool there. shog[1].gif

my answer stays the same though. just visa versa. while the perp cal chrono is function wise the same and more than a perp cal, there are enough model variations that would warrant both imo.

as to your point on annual calendars, im afraid i dont see it that way. for example, JLC and blancpain both make beautiful annual calendars that imo have nothing to do with a perp cal, and are in no way failing to go big. they are wonderful watches that provide the day, date and month, and as a bonus they provide the convenience of once yearly only adjusting.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


now, there are certainly annuals that look like a poor mans perpetual, but i find those are in general the ones that are all sub dials, like many of the PP annual calendars. those do usually fall flat for me, and do seem to be almost what they want to be but not quite. however, the ones that use windows and arrows are often really nice and instead of a poor mans perp, they are more like a rich mans day date.

 


just my opinion as a poor man.  
 

Sorry, I'm just not a calendar or annual calendar person.  I've never really seen one that I liked enough to even remotely consider.  The only calendar watches that interest me are actual perpetual calendars, but those are generally well beyond my budget.  As for Blancpain, while I respect the quality of their work, I've yet to see or handle a BP that I really liked.  Even their really high end complicated pieces don't interest me, and once you get into a certain price range there are watches I'd rather have from other companies.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post


Funny . . . that is how I feel about date mechanisms generally. They don't really work and having to adust them at the end of every other month is proof. You wouldn't think the time keeping mechanism of a watch worked if it was off by an hour every other day and you had to adjust it yourself. Same with a date mechanism that doesn't know how many days there are in a month.
So are you o.k. with ordinary 31 day date wheels?

Dopey, that's a really funny way to look at it.  I never considered that.  Only about half of my watches have dates on them, and when possible I would opt for a watch without a date because I prefer its symmetry (but that's more of a preference pertaining to appearance over function).   I think we have all seen watches that make us say, "Oh why the f*ck did the cut a hole in the dial for a date?  This watch would have been absolutely perfect as a time only piece."

 

I do have some watches with a date, but I can do without it.  I would also say that if someone has several watches, and you change watches enough and do not use a winder (I don't like winders), then you have to set the time and date if its been sitting around anyway, so its not a huge deal.  

When it comes to a regular date function, for me its really depends on the watch. The one watch, I think looks good with or without it is the Submariner.  I like the symmetry of the no-date Sub, yet I'm also so used to a Sub with a cyclops and date that it doesn't bother me.  I also do not mind it on a current AP RO Jumbo, as the background for the date is the same color as the dial, so it sort of blends in with the dial rather than being an obvious distraction.

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