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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 1448  

post #21706 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

http://panerai.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-717/pi-5889558/ti-865153/s-0/

Just saw this on TPP. That is some serious watch damage! The owner was quoted a repair bill of $8,700! It really is kind of sad the type of end user service we are provided with these luxury gifts. Maybe I live in fantasy land, but service related woes seem all too common for what people spend on this hobby! This comment is of course not related to this incident entirely, but the industry as a whole.

 

Perhaps they deserve it for buying a wristwatch made from such a fragile material. I don't get the who ceramic thing at all. It's not a precious metal or gemstone, and it's not a material that add technically to the watch design, so it's basically pointless. Somebody said to somebody else that ceramic would be cool to use, and damn the consequences.

 

I've held my peace up until now on Panerai. But the fact is they are overpriced for what they are, they started the whole idiotic giant watch trend, they look silly when being worn by anyone under 200 pounds. Nor am I particularly enamored by their history. Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends either own or covet Panerais. But every time I see one it impresses me as a product of sheer idiocy. 

post #21707 of 48312

Yeah, but what do you really thinklol8[1].gif

post #21708 of 48312

I've always loved the look of my panerai but it's too big for me and to be honest the watch (lack of better words) is being over played like a rolex sub-m. It seems like you'll never be a GQ man without wearing one.

post #21709 of 48312
I actually would like a Panerai. Just a base PAM. And I understand your rationale in re the "if you buy ceramic, you know the consequences" spiel. My problem is that they are charging close to $9,000, the price of a new watch, for what is probably a piece of Ceramic that just came out of a CNC machine. I feel like luxury goods should have luxury end user service. And I have received such service for a lot of my luxury products. It just amazes me that as consumers, we put up with the god awful service that these watch companies offer us. Of course, a lot of this *is* anecdotal. I have not really had much experience yet.

I have heard horror stories about Omega, Rolex, etc., customer service, where the person has the watch returned to him or her months later in worse condition than it was sent. I just think it is kind of silly. But what can you do really, other than stop purchasing the goods?

In a similar vein, check this out:




I mean this is a $10,000 watch. And it is literally coming apart. How is that really acceptable ethically from the perspective of the watch company?

So I guess I do not really 'get' the "deserving it" argument.
post #21710 of 48312
Panerai watches are awesome. Sure, they make duds like every brand, but on the whole they are fantastic. Haters gone hate, but lets not go overboard with dick comments.

I dont think they are any more over priced than any other luxury watch. Thats is the industry now. Entry level watches that used to be 3k are now 6-8k and up. Its just the reality.

I tjink there are some excellent uses of ceramic, but in some applicatins its just dumb.
post #21711 of 48312

I would rather like a base PAM too, but then there are a lot of things I would like...

 

Seems to me that the general standard of reason and intellect in TWAT is very respectable.  Most of us, I think, are pretty realistic about how big brands work these days, or have always done perhaps: the balance of effort and expenditure between product development, marketing, and servicing existing customers, is a careful one.  In various management offices, I'm sure people try to calculate a formula that sets the maximum product profit against the minimum expenditure on service required so as not to put off repeat business or diminish the brand too much.  In that equation, sponsoring a James Bond movie and getting X new customers x Y new sales margins per customer, might well give a much bigger figure than spending Z on a new level of service commitment to encourage repeat business.

 

The bigger the company, the worse the service is not always true.  But the bigger the company, the more they can choose to drive new sales as a priority over serving existing customers.  I wrote above about how the Omega mega-agent where I live gave me such a shitty deal on service, while the smaller outfit they succeeded sorted me out in no time.  It's just how they have to work.  The smaller outfit has lost brands and volume, and needs me to like them because one day I might buy another of their watches if I know they'll look after me.  But the bigger one knows that a lot more people have heard of Omega these days who weren't into watches but now recognise the brand, and might choose them over Rolex or a fashion brand where they wouldn't have before.  That's cost them, centrally in advertising, and locally in opening very stylish new boutiques in expensive locations.  But that will pay.  Servicing mimo's cheap, ancient watch won't necessarily make him by another one.

 

So we make our choices.  Bigger companies are sometimes going to seem indifferent.  We need to research who the agents are who give good service where we live - certainly i'd be interested in Rolex knowing their local facilities, but won't touch Glashutte or Blancpain with a shitty stick knowing they their (same as Omega) agents have no real service centre here. And on a broader level, we learn about these stories and experiences from TWAT.  Because TWAT never leads us astray and is always wise.  If only that had been true in other examples of my past life.

 

P.S. What would offend me about the $10k watch, is that I cannot say how it is substantially different from this $1k watch.  Never mind the materials; I think there's a point when you buy from a large company that they have to be special enough, and different enough, to justify their marketing-budget-driven premium.  And that ain't it.  The base PAM might be...

post #21712 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Panerai watches are awesome. Sure, they make duds like every brand, but on the whole they are fantastic. Haters gone hate, but lets not go overboard with dick comments.

I dont think they are any more over priced than any other luxury watch. Thats is the industry now. Entry level watches that used to be 3k are now 6-8k and up. Its just the reality.

I tjink there are some excellent uses of ceramic, but in some applicatins its just dumb.

I agree. I actually think that the new Panerais coming out are very fairly priced, especially the ones with the same in house movement.
post #21713 of 48312

And again, look at how much they've invested in exclusive boutiques (one just opened where I live), product placement (awful Transporter movies etc.), and generally trying to reach a mass, non-afficionado market.

 

That expenditure gets recovered somewhere.  It can't all be on volume; some of it has to be in price increases built on a new perceived desirability in the brand.  Oh, and another strange dynamic to be balanced: sometimes a brand is more desirable simply because it has risen into a certain price bracket.  And if only the "we liked them before they were cool" nerds have ever paid less, you can tell your new customers this is just they way it's meant to be.

 

As for Panerai in particular, I think Stitch is right.  With a variety of base models going cheaper than the cheapest Rolex or an average Omega, with their styling and individual brand personality, they don't seem like a bad deal at all if you like them.

post #21714 of 48312

I will have to say ceramic is an amazing material and definitely can see reasons why watchmakers are attracted to it. It has excellent machine qualities, it can be harder than steel, excellent abrasion resistance,  it's not effected by temperature or humidity, can have very low electrical conductivity and it's non-magnetitc. Sounds like a dream material for a watchmaker but there is a serious degree of different types & level of ceramics. It's a shame the selected ceramic is cracking but I bet after some tweaking they can sort it out. Top ceramics is very expensive.

 

As a performance standpoint, ceramic can be very desirable but I'm not sure using ceramic would equate as a luxurious material for a watch but more as a performance material, I think it's safe to say that a $10K watch is a luxury item. Having said that, trying to introduce cutting edge materials is never cheap.

 

I totally agree with mimo. A $10k watch should be better on all accounts (looks, performance and quality) compared to a $1K watch but I guess that's very subjective.

 

I would hope that manufactuers would immediately warranty the cracked cases as that is far from normal or expected from a watch case. 

post #21715 of 48312

I agree Panerai is priced reasonably compared to it competitors.

post #21716 of 48312
I agree with you on warranting cracked cases. In my opinion, this is verging on a defective attribute of a watch, one that frankly could be resolved through litigation. If a car has a manufacturer's defect, or a bag has a defect, normally there is a recourse for that defect. These watches are self-proclaimed tool watches designed for wear in intense environments. The inability of these watches to withstand the abuse that they are advertised to be able to withstand is something of a misrepresentation.
post #21717 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoti View Post

I will have to say ceramic is an amazing material and definitely can see reasons why watchmakers are attracted to it. It has excellent machine qualities, it can be harder than steel, excellent abrasion resistance,  it's not effected by temperature or humidity, can have very low electrical conductivity and it's non-magnetitc. Sounds like a dream material for a watchmaker but there is a serious degree of different types & level of ceramics. It's a shame the selected ceramic is cracking but I bet after some tweaking they can sort it out. Top ceramics is very expensive.

 

As a performance standpoint, ceramic can be very desirable but I'm not sure using ceramic would equate as a luxurious material for a watch but more as a performance material, I think it's safe to say that a $10K watch is a luxury item. Having said that, trying to introduce cutting edge materials is never cheap.

 

I totally agree with mimo. A $10k watch should be better on all accounts (looks, performance and quality) compared to a $1K watch but I guess that's very subjective.

 

I would hope that manufactuers would immediately warranty the cracked cases as that is far from normal or expected from a watch case. 

 

Ceramic has its virtues. Harder than steel?  Yes.  More abrasion resistant?  Yes.  More impact / fracture resistant..... um... did I mention how abrasion resistant it is? biggrin.gif

post #21718 of 48312
post #21719 of 48312
i dont know a ton about the subject, but i dont think ceramic is a great material for cases. i think as accents, like bezels and inserts, and maybe as certain movement parts is where it is best used.

obviously there are many grades of ceramic but i think it is much harder to work on if anything does happen, if at all, and im not aware of steel cases actually cracking when dropped, like ceramic. ymmv.
post #21720 of 48312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

http://panerai.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-717/pi-5889558/ti-865153/s-0/

Just saw this on TPP. That is some serious watch damage! The owner was quoted a repair bill of $8,700! It really is kind of sad the type of end user service we are provided with these luxury gifts. Maybe I live in fantasy land, but service related woes seem all too common for what people spend on this hobby! This comment is of course not related to this incident entirely, but the industry as a whole.

What Wes_SS7 had to go through (imho) is totally unacceptable at customer service standpoint from a respected watch maker. Cracking a case under normal use should be no fault of the owner unless Panerai clearly spells this out while trying to sell the item, that it will easily crack. That gives the potential buyer the option to proceed buying the watch and knows they have to be cautious, then the onus falls on the watch buyer.

 

I would think watch companies have to respect the implied public perception and expectations that overwhelmingly watch cases don't crack (crystals yes), so not notifying the customer of this while trying to sell the watch should be considered misconduct/negligence of the watch maker and it's retailer. Then trying to charge the customer $8,700 for replacing the case is simply evil.

 

The poor guy is stuck deciding if he should spend another $8k on a watch he can't really wear.

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