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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, JLC etc...) - Page 873post #13081 of 483128/12/12 at 7:16pmpost #13082 of 483128/12/12 at 8:12pmpost #13083 of 483128/12/12 at 8:55pmpost #13084 of 483128/12/12 at 9:29pmpost #13085 of 483128/12/12 at 9:32pm+1
Ditto for bell & ross and hublot...though I confess I've owned both brands (still have my bell and Ross phantom chrono ltd ed)Quote:Originally Posted by Dino944Quote:Originally Posted by dukerules
There are plenty of Panerai watches using in-house movements these days. I'm a bit of a movement snob myself, but there are loads of ETA, Valjoux, etc-based watches I admire and desire. And, for what it's worth, Panerai historically was a casemaker, using externally-supplied movements, so there is actually plenty of historical precedent for the use of outsourced movements in these watches. I'm not saying that spending $6K on a watch with a simple Unitas movement makes good economical sense, but since when did any aspect of this hobby make any sense?
Now, when Panerai throws a nice in-house movement in something that looks like this...well I guess I'm a fanboy, and yes, I'm smitten.Quote:Originally Posted by gdl203
FWIW, the "in-house" movement (in the Richemnt house, I guess) are a relatively recent phenomenon for Panerai and mostly a marketing strategy to increase prices and ensure continuity if/when Swatch Group continues to make ebauches less accessible to third parties.
In reality, outsourced movements are much more aligned with Panerai's history and DNA. OP was primarily a case and dial maker and sourced Rolex and Angelus movements. It never was or claimed to be in the horology business but rather a maker of tools for the marina militare, among which this new design of watch case, luminous dial, and, later, crown protector to ensure better water resistance. When Vendome bought the "modern OP" in the late 90's, they had revived old watch designs but replicated the same approach as OP did decades before: focus on the case and dial and use readily available movements. Vendome continued that, incorporating a number or specialty movements here and there for Ltd Editions, but always sourced.
Yes I'm aware of Panerai's history of using outsourced movements. I'm not against Panerai using outsourced movements, I'm opposed to them using ordinary or rather inexpensive movements, and then charging a lot for their watches. Please understand that I am not opposed to spending good money on a watch with an outsourced movement (I have a Cartier Tank XL with a Piaget movement and a Rolex Daytona that used a Zenith El Primero as a base). Outsourced movements have been used in many of the finest brands including Patek, AP, and VC.
What I am opposed to is spending a lot of money on a watch say $6K on a Panerai knowing that the same base Unitas movement or ETA movement is sitting in my friend's $700 watch. If the PAM was say $2K and it used a movement that is found in watches that are $700-$,1000 well its more understandable at the price point. At more than $5K its a tough pill to swallow. Also, I've seen the movements in the base PAM, they do some work on it but just not enough to really differentiate it from the the base movement or justify its price. However, as long as people buy the models that have ordinary movements in them Panerai will continue to use them.
Also if you read the last sentence of my eariler post I said "My big wish for Panerai is more in house movements or the use of movements from finer companies such as F.Piguet, JLC (since its under the same ownership), maybe Zenith...rather than using Unitas, Valjoux etc." So I'm not saying they have to use only in house movements, I wish that their outsourced movements were movements that from what are considered finer movement makers and movements that I will not be seeing in $700-$1,000 dollar watches.
There is nothing wrong with a watch that used an ETA or Valjoux movment. Afterall, they will get the job done and if you are satisfied with the end product thats all that matters at the end of the day. However, when putting a good some of money into a watch, I'd prefer that it didn't use an ordinary movement once the watch is in a certain price range. YMMV.
Dinopost #13086 of 483128/12/12 at 9:49pmpost #13087 of 483128/12/12 at 9:56pmTried these 2 on today. Would love to go with numero uno (372 i think) but i fear its not in the budget. I REALLY liked the 112 on my wrist. Not huge fran of the black leather strap tho, would defo want to swap out for tan calf or brown croc.
Sadly they did not have the 176 for me to see in person.
The quest continues.post #13088 of 483128/12/12 at 10:10pmNot to be the donnie downer of this Panerai love fest, but I don't like either of them. All of the recent Panerai (to say nothing of the rest of the watches posted) have seemed overly aggressive, masculine, and lacking in elegance. While these two certainly maintain a kind of simplicity that I find desirable, they are overly modern and I find the emphasis on building the dial as a dark mask over the light background puts a weird emphasis on the negative space and creates a sort of embossed effect that I grates with me.post #13089 of 483128/12/12 at 10:12pmpost #13090 of 483128/12/12 at 10:25pmpost #13091 of 483128/12/12 at 10:38pmpost #13092 of 483128/12/12 at 10:43pmpost #13093 of 483128/12/12 at 10:47pmpost #13094 of 483128/13/12 at 2:18amThread StarterQuote:Originally Posted by Dino944
I'm not against Panerai using outsourced movements, I'm opposed to them using ordinary or rather inexpensive movements, and then charging a lot for their watches.
What I am opposed to is spending a lot of money on a watch say $6K on a Panerai knowing that the same base Unitas movement or ETA movement is sitting in my friend's $700 watch.
Couple of points:
(1) I don't disagree and would prefer that the watches were cheaper... And they were before Vendome bought, and for a little while before they realized the dramatic supply/demand imbalance for these watches and priced them accordingly
(2) these are tool watches that require (a) rugged, proven and reliable movements and (b) large enough to fill a 44mm case without huge silly spacers. When you think of it, there are very few available ebauches that fit these criteria. On the face of it, Unitas is simply the best solution for this watch, regardless of price. They had from the very first Ltd editions, and for smaller cases, some more inteesting movements (I have a Pam98 with a F. Piguet movement for example) but these are generally not as rugged and reliable as a good old Unitaspost #13095 of 483128/13/12 at 5:08am
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