The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Whats the market price for this piece from 2003, full set, with a lot of dings.

Without bracelet and papers/box it was up to 3K.

Whats a good deal for me, I want to trade in my IWC 3777 full set 97% condition.



Dino944 said:

Always fun to attend watch events.  I could recommend Montblanc for pens, but that's about it.  The main thing they excel at is putting small watch movements in large cases and making it rather obvious.   Even in the lower price point ranges, I'd probably look toward other brands to recommend.  Just my 2 cents.   

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While I broadly agree, I do appreciate their willingness to upend the somewhat ridiculous pricing structure of their Swiss brethren. A perp calendar for $12K (with an in-house movement) is to be applauded.

Their Villeret pieces, especially the Pulsograph and the enamel Chrono, are very very very nice



no frills said:

Hahah!

Congrats on the new Patek @brax! Patek executes hunter's cases very well. Is that the cal 324 powering your new baby?

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Indeed.

Sweden, have you tried chrono24, or the sales corner at TZ? Or maybe WUS? Rolex Forums?

I'm all for some nice patina, but I would think you can locate another example that hasn't been loved so hard.

Sweden said:

Very nice brax!

Okey gents, i found this Explorer II at mywatch.dk full set. Only problem is the hard beating to it, how do you restore these deep dings?

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The bezel can be replaced ...the rest your sort of screwed. I wouldn't purchase that one. Mine is from 2001, has never been polished and looks so much better than that. Keep searching.

tigerpac said:

Interesting take. They surely are guilty of casing movement way too small for the case, which also bothers me. So that does cut out a lot of their line.

That said, the simple 3-handers don't have the cramped subdials and for 2-4k range look pretty solid. Other than Nomos I can't think of other companies in that range that can actually make their own stuff.

Don't own one and likely won't but was surprised by their wide range.

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Sorry, the three hander you displayed a photo of looked to me like the date was set inward as a result of a small movement. While Nomos don't really do anything for me, I'd gladly choose one over a Montblanc. Beyond that, I am not someone who is so focused on having to have an in house movement that I would allow that to narrow my choices, nor would I allow it to excuse Montblancs offerings which I find less than appealing. Again just my 2 cents.

Grammaton Cleric said:

While I broadly agree, I do appreciate their willingness to upend the somewhat ridiculous pricing structure of their Swiss brethren. A perp calendar for $12K (with an in-house movement) is to be applauded.
Their Villeret pieces, especially the Pulsograph and the enamel Chrono, are very very very nice

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Yes, a perpetual calendar with an inhouse movement that is far too small for its watch case...really, so I can have this compromise for $12,000, all while knowing it will have all of the resale value of a half eaten stack of pancakes! What a bargain.

Sorry, I just wouldn't want one. If I can't afford a perpetual calendar from a manufacturer that I want one from, then I can't and I'll gladly admire them from a far. I'm not one who is satisfied by cheaper compromises.



brax said:

Sorry for the delay gentlemen. I expected to post the final pictures this morning but was called away on other pressing matters. Without further wait: As BostonHerald surmised, I am very much a traditionalist in this sense and this is my favorite dress watch. Patek 5153 in white gold with a white dial. This particular model (in this configuration) was introduced last year.

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Beautiful PP Brax , congratulations and wear in good health.

Dino944 said:

Sorry, the three hander you displayed a photo of looked to me like the date was set inward as a result of a small movement. While Nomos don't really do anything for me, I'd gladly choose one over a Montblanc. Beyond that, I am not someone who is so focused on having to have an in house movement that I would allow that to narrow my choices, nor would I allow it to excuse Montblancs offerings which I find less than appealing. Again just my 2 cents.

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Didn't think my suggestion of some recent pieces as being interesting for a certain price point and for people to check out a brand would be met with such a.... negative response, therefore I didn't spend enough time making a more 'defensible' post and finding the 3-hander with no date.

But here's a world timer under 6k.



While far from championing the brand - just found it interesting. Some of there 2 and 3k stuff isn't all in-house either for the record.



DLJr said:

I think that depends on the person. On my wrist, it's the only thing I can notice. I've tried talking my way around them several times, but every time I'd look down they are the first thing staring back at me. I think it's just more different strokes for different folks than "they work". And it's funny, just the smallest change to the width of the lugs on the SD4000, and I don't notice them at all. 

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Odd. When I look down at mine, the first thing I see is the gorgeous, classic simplicity of that dial and the stunning cerachrome bezel. Those catch my eye before anything else. YMMV clearly. Either way, all good

@Sweden

I'm just going to come out and say it. The models you feel are within your range are rather concerning.

I think the best strategy might be to save up a grand in cash first, and then find a pre-owned watch shop with a good reputation that will take your watch as a trade towards a newer Explorer. It's a common enough model that most pre-owned shops that deal volume in Rolex will have at least one to sell on a monthly basis.

The shop will probably want to make $800-$1k off your pilot when they resell it, so factor that in.

Or you can keep your IWC and adopt Mr. @Roycru 's strategy and just eat less food until the savings are enough to purchase the watch you desire.



tigerpac said:

But here's a world timer under 6k.

 

 

While far from championing the brand - just found it interesting.  Some of there 2 and 3k stuff isn't all in-house either for the record.

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I'm impressed. I love world timers--might be the only Patek I am ever willing to buy. Just wish it was from an established watch manufacture--if this example was a Baume & Mercier I'd bite.

tigerpac said:

So was at an event for the Madison Ave Watch Week in NYC and went by the Montblanc boutique.

They've got some very solid very affordable entry-level stuff now. I couldn't help but think they would be good recommendations to friends just getting into watches.

e.g. http://www.montblanc.com/en-us/coll...-Montblanc-Star-Classique-Date-Automatic.html for under 4k. I like some of their newer stuff even more but no time to research pics.

They obviously have much higher haute stuff as well but something to think about. There aren't too many players that make dressy pieces in this range and the high-end at the same time - I know I get a fair amount of questions from friends looking for help for a first watch from a 'watch guy'.

Just food for thought.

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I agree, and I think that some of the newer, classically-styled Mont Blanc watches are very well priced for what you get.

The somewhat complicatedly-named Montblanc Star Quantieme Complet, for example, gives you a moonphase function, plus a calendar function (albeit not a perpetual calendar, as it doesn't calculate the different months for you – you have to adjust the watch when a month end in something other than 31 days) with day of the week and month displayed in a window, and a hand indicating the date on a ring around the outside of the dial.

It's a classic, very attractive design and is very similar to the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Calendar – but the JLC costs about 9000 Euros whereas the Montblanc costs about 3500 Euros for the steel versions.




At a much higher price level, MB have also brought out a vintage-style "Pulsograph" recently. A few other companies have brought out similar models recently, too, including Longines, as part of "vintage" lines.

MB acquired Minerva a few years back, so their higher-end watches now use Minerva calibres, and their lower-end watches seem to typically use adapted ETA movements, and there's nothing wrong with that as they're reliable and easy to service.

Here's an article from Hodinkee on the Montblanc Heritage Pulsograph. It also talks about bit about Minerva calibres:
http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/introducing-the-montblanc-meisterstck-heritage-sadfss

Montblanc also make a one-button Pulsograph with an enamel dial which looks really, really lovely (and it has a great Minerva movement, too). It's also very sensibly-sized at 39mm:

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/hands-on-with-the-montblanc-blah

FWIW, one of my young internet marketing kingpin buddies recently bought a Montblanc Timewalker chrono specifically because they are well made and modern but are far more "incogneto" than his gold sub.

Although, in truth, nearly ANYTHING would have been more incogneto than his gold sub.

Anyhow, Montblanc does seem to be coming along. Having held a number of their pieces and hobnobbed with some shopkeepers (which got me my catalog; anyone want it?) I imagine it to be a rather satisfying watch to own, depending on what you're looking for. I do like how the purchase price includes a strap that you can select from dozens of colors and materials. As a company they are certainly still finding themselves stylistically. After they pinched Jaeger LeCoultre's CEO Jerome Lambert two summers ago, things started really developing.

One looking for a watch to represent a certain level of heritage and pedigree mights balk at Montblanc watches, as they haven't added anything of note to horology. But many of their examples are quite nice and the prices certainly are reasonable.



Dino944 said:

Yes, a perpetual calendar with an inhouse movement that is far too small for its watch case...really, so I can have this compromise for $12,000, all while knowing it will have all of the resale value of a half eaten stack of pancakes!  What a bargain.     

Sorry, I just wouldn't want one.  If I can't afford a perpetual calendar from a manufacturer that I want one from, then I can't and I'll gladly admire them from a far.   I'm not one who is satisfied by cheaper compromises.  

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Horses for courses I guess. The whole 'movement too small for the case' thing is often used as a blanket reason to denigrate a watch. I like to evaluate pieces on a one-off basis, and I frankly believe the MB perp still looks quite smart.

Never quite understood the TWAT focus on resale value. It has never figured into my thinking as I don't trade watches like baseball cards. I buy selectively and keep what I buy, but perhaps that's unusual in this hobby.



BostonHedonist said:

One looking for a watch to represent a certain level of heritage and pedigree mights balk at Montblanc watches, as they haven't added anything of note to horology. But many of their examples are quite nice and the prices certainly are reasonable. 

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Their Villeret pieces certainly incorporate the Minerva heritage, but the MB branding may be off-putting to some collectors. The Villerets are expensive but still very well priced given the quality of the pieces.

Grammaton Cleric said:

Never quite understood the TWAT focus on resale value. It has never figured into my thinking as I don't trade watches like baseball cards. I buy selectively and keep what I buy, but perhaps that's unusual in this hobby.

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Same here, but I think that you're definitely correct in saying that there are quite a lot of "watch people" out there who do buy with an eye on re-sale value so that when they feel like adding a new watch to their collection, they can sell one of their existing watches to help fund it, or sell it simply because they don't wear it as much anymore.

A year or two back, I posed a question in this thread (or in its predecessor) about why the Classic Menswear side of SF prefers "non brand name" clothes but vastly prefers brand name watches, as it jarred with me a bit. Guys who highly prized small, little known clothing ateliers in distant places when it came to clothing were taking the opposite approach when it came to watches, and were exclusively focussed on watches from big, well-known watch companies - Rolex, JLC, AP and so on. I was curious as to why that was the case as it seemed very contradictory to me - why obsess over brand-name watches when you spurn and are openly disdainful of big brands when it comes to clothing?

Greg (gld203) and a couple of others chimed in and said that it was largely due to two factors - resale and servicing/parts. If you buy from a smaller, less-well-known brand that isn't well-known, then you'll probably take a big hit if you want to sell it down the track. Also, you can't be sure whether your new/small brand is going to be around in a decades' time and that would then affect the availability of servicing and parts and, if the brand goes under, that would also clearly affect resale value.

When it was explained to me that way, it made sense to me. It's not something that I focus on, but I can understand why others would.