The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

For today, a rather symmetrical, balanced piece IMHO:

academe said:

I can't entirely explain why I like the Contemporaine quite so much. It's still on my wish list, but has been edged out the way by the others shortlisted. I still suspect I will end up owning one in the future, just not this time round!
Yes; saw it thanks! I do think the review as a whole is ever so slightly biased towards the VC, mostly because it's clear that Ben Clymer has a soft spot for VCs (but who can blame him?)

Click to expand...

As the saying goes "The heart wants what the heart wants." The Contemporaine is a well made watch, but its austerity doesn't work for me. One of the things I've always liked are small whimsical details, or interesting case shapes that often distinguished VC from its Big Three brethren. I suppose I find the details of the Traditionelle more interesting and less austere. But at the end of the day, if we all chose the same watches, this would be a very boring place.

mimo said:

At least, mostly. Regarding the Overseas, there's no question that it's a very different beast to the RO, and empirically, what AP do with the case and bracelet is just on another level. I haven't played with a Nautilus in person, but I can safely assume the same, I'm sure. The RO has all these incredibly fine, sharp edges that lock together as a precision instrument in their own right. That is not how the Overseas feels. It's heavy, but soft and comfortable like an old slipper - a very different feel to the RO.

The size (like the RO) has inflated in the recent models and won't be for all. Actually, I much preferred the 39mm RO to the 41mm, especially as it would live as a dress watch much of the time. But even though the new Overseas is even bigger, at 42mm+ and deep enough too, its softer edges make it a lot more friendly under the shirt cuff. It has that Maltese motif around the bezel, and in that strap, but at a normal glace that's rather less obvious a statement than the shape of the RO, and its integrated bracelet. Perhaps it is a little obvious, shoving it into those places, but I think it's a subtle enough reference on the wrist, even if it might leap out to the watch nut and his perma-loupe'd eye!

Of course there's no question that the Overseas, RO and Nauti are all in the same very expensive ball park for a steel sport/dress watch. And I won't argue that the latter two have the more exotic finish. But rather like that impossible Lange choice, I guess it has to come down to the love. I was really charmed by the oddities of the Overseas, that to someone else will be mere irritations. Side by side, I might still prefer the RO, I really am not sure. But I liked the Overseas - and its oddly asymmetric Dual Time variant, rather a lot. I also rather like that given the massive advertising and product placement by both AP and PP lately, the Overseas is rather less recognisable. It really would be a very difficult choice.

As for the older Overseas, I think the bracelet is lovely and the smaller size might even be better. I'd have to see them together to know. One bonus with the older ones is that they can be had mint for $7-8k, which is well under the price of even a used Daytona. If only they'd always made blue ones...

Click to expand...

You wax romantically about the Overseas, and I enjoyed your thoughts on the VC. The choice of any luxury sports watch should come down to which watch really makes the wearer smile. For me, the current Overseas just seemed inferior to the Nautilus and RO in terms of design and finish. It was something I hated to see, because I did like the original Overseas, and I am a big fan of VC. So for me the revised Overseas was a disappointment.

I however disagree with your assessment that "At a normal glance that's rather less obvious a statement than the shape of the RO, and its integrated bracelet." While the design of the RO and Nautiuls have been around for decades, and the Overseas is the new kid on the block, unless you are in the company of watch collectors or maybe at a high end watch/jewelry boutique, ROs and Nautiluses go largely unnoticed. If they make statement its a rather quiet one. The RO and Nautilus use simpler more natural shapes while the Overseas bracelet, has polished edges highlighting the Maltese Crosses, which I find to be a bit too much brand advertising (the bezel would have been plenty). I generally prefer sports watches on bracelets, but in this case I find the Overseas bracelet to be rather garish...which saddens because in the past I was attracted me to VCs because of their understated designs and ability to fly under the radar.

So my friend, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I hope that someday VC will bring back something more in line with either their 222 or their original Overseas line. But if the current model is your current love, I hope that one will some day reside on your wrist.

Actually, the original time only model was available with a blue dial, and IIRC there was a limited edition with a blue dial, but the subdials and chapter ring were black. I'm sure people with those would want a premium.

NonServiam said:

One of my favourite ADs has been very keen to see a VC on my hand, after selling me two JLCs

He sent me home with this excellent book.



An excellent read, I've come to admire both the VC history and many of their current offerings.

Eh, did I mention that I will be unboxing again(!) in the near future?

Click to expand...

That is a great book on VC. A friend who moderates a VC forum recommended it to me years ago. I have that one and a similar Lange book that was a gift from my former (but now defunct) authorized VC, Lange, Piaget, Panerai, BP, Rolex, Omega dealer.

Details on the unboxing???

NonServiam said:

My thoughts on the Dual Time differs wildly! I cannot bring myself to like the dial layout. AP has an RO with the same movement and the same dial, and I feel the same about that one.

The power reserve is too large. The home time subdial I don't care for at all, with the arab numerals. And the day/night indicator much too visible.

Granted, the slate grey dial of the Overseas soothes the clutter a great deal, but then they had to go and write "AUTOMATIC ANTIMAGNETIC" at 4 o clock. No, no, no.

And I'm not a hater of asymmetrical dials, I like my PP 5712 just fine

Click to expand...

I considered the Dual Time at one point, as I think its a very useful complication. However, I prefer the details of the RO. The VC has too much writing on the dial. I don't need 4 lines of writing...VC, Geneve, Automatic, Antimagnetic. I think the slate dial of the VC is cool, and maybe a bit dressier, while the RO dial seems a bit more functional at a glance. On the RO I like the color distinction between the 31 and 1 on the date subdial, the greater contrast between the day night indicator, the hour and minute hands on the 2nd time zone (rather than just an hour hand), and the graduation and color change of its power reserve. But again, it comes down to which makes the wearer smile more.

Frilly that's hot! With a full complement of pushers, too. Really works well that way That really is a joy to see every time, Frilly. I've just spent a full minute admiring the shape of the hour markers. That's quality.

As for the VC debate, well, yes. I think the 41mm is unnecessarily large for the RO, ditto 42+ for the VC. But yet I still liked it. Blue dials are special. I prefer the VC for the dual time, but I have to say the 39mm ROC, the way those subdials bubble through the trademark tapisserie, I do love it. That same old TWAT refrain rings true again: "so get both". *sigh* Maybe one. One day.

Dino, we posted at the same time: yes, we can agree to differ indeed, and we don't differ over much. There's definitely a superior, crisper finish and structure to the RO, and I do love that tapisserie too. I do think more people recognise the RO shape these days (or worse, confuse it with a Hublot!) than would recognise that Maltese cross shape in a bracelet, but we're coming down to delicious degrees of detail now. It's all good. The RO is fancier. I just like them both for different reasons. I like the grey OS dual time more than the white RO though - dial colour makes a big difference to me in the same watch somehow; the black RO would probably beat the white OS in dual times for me too.

On the flip side again, I'm not so keen on the time-only Overseas, old or new. The dial's actually pretty flat and boring in itself I think, so it takes the chrono or time zone subdials and their oddities to make it interesting for me. That's another area where the RO probably wins: every version has that visual interest of the tapisserie, and your Jumbo is of course sublime. Now that and and Overseas chrono could definitely live on the same winder: so very similar in original concept, yet so very different in outcome. A slim savoury wafer of Jumbo and a fat Overseas chronoburger, with a sweet, sweet Lange to finish...mmmm....a man can dream...

Fun history of the overseas: http://www.thehourlounge.com/index....9606c16690&u=37349136e292aa72274ea27527ca3999

mimo said:

On the flip side again, I'm not so keen on the time-only Overseas, old or new. The dial's actually pretty flat and boring in itself I think, so it takes the chrono or time zone subdials and their oddities to make it interesting for me.

Click to expand...

Have you seen the time only with the guilloche dial? Nothing flat or boring about it IMO. I'm quite smitten with the white dialed version personally. There is something more sporty about the Overseas 2 that I appreciate, and I quite like the design of the bracelet.

I haven't, and it seems I should. And I really liked the bracelet too: just a different animal to the RO, more genuinely sporty, and somehow a bit more laid back and easy. The RO is sharp and serious and stunning. The moulded racing seat in a track day special. The OS also feels expensive, definitely some decent leather in there, but it's the big butt comfort of a premium SUV.

just want say i agree with dino. that is all.

Safe.



tifosi said:

I used to use my Speedy chrono as a date function. I'd run the chrono for one minute every day and it would advance the 30min counter (3 o'clock subdial) by one. So whatever number the 30min. totalizer was on would be the date. It only gets tricky on months with 31 days. haha

Click to expand...

DLJr said:

I've been using mine to track how much time I spend waiting for my wife. Scary when you put a number to it.

Click to expand...

tifosi said:

I couldn't do that. Not enough power reserve.

Click to expand...

BostonHedonist said:

White tea, 2.5 minutes. Green, 3. Black 4. Herbal,
5-7. Elevator pitch, 3 minutes max. My friend's quarter mile time, 13.2 seconds. Time is money. Or, in some cases flavor.

Click to expand...

Impressive friend you have, btw.

justinkapur said:

I was just at Costco and they had a Panerai for $8700. Couldn't tell the model unfortunately. They also had an IWC for $5000.

I actually really liked it but not super familiar with IWC's

Click to expand...

Is this for real; Costco offers these??

mimo said:

Dino, we posted at the same time: yes, we can agree to differ indeed, and we don't differ over much. There's definitely a superior, crisper finish and structure to the RO, and I do love that tapisserie too. I do think more people recognise the RO shape these days (or worse, confuse it with a Hublot!) than would recognise that Maltese cross shape in a bracelet, but we're coming down to delicious degrees of detail now. It's all good. The RO is fancier. I just like them both for different reasons. I like the grey OS dual time more than the white RO though - dial colour makes a big difference to me in the same watch somehow; the black RO would probably beat the white OS in dual times for me too.

On the flip side again, I'm not so keen on the time-only Overseas, old or new. The dial's actually pretty flat and boring in itself I think, so it takes the chrono or time zone subdials and their oddities to make it interesting for me. That's another area where the RO probably wins: every version has that visual interest of the tapisserie, and your Jumbo is of course sublime. Now that and and Overseas chrono could definitely live on the same winder: so very similar in original concept, yet so very different in outcome. A slim savoury wafer of Jumbo and a fat Overseas chronoburger, with a sweet, sweet Lange to finish...mmmm....a man can dream...

Click to expand...

Hi Mimo,

Yes, I suppose more people would recognize a RO, although, and even more people would recognize a ROO as those seem to overshadow the the original RO, in size, advertising, and product placement. Still in my experience, unless you are in a major city like NYC, Vegas, Chicago, LA, or Miami, you just don't see many of either brand "in the wild." Sure you might see them at a high end watch event, or jewelry/watch store, but in the year and I half I've had my RO Jumbo, I've only seen one other Jumbo on a person, and he had ordered it, purchased it, and they were filling out the paperwork at Wempe. I've seen an occasional Offshore in Boston, but mostly I see Rolex, IWC, Panerais, Cartiers, and Omegas.

I think the original time only Overseas with military dial using Arabic numerals was pretty good looking, although I greatly preferred the chronograph version. As for the current Overseas, I agree you need a dual time or chronograph. I found the current time only version rather unappealing, so I didn't consider that model. I had previously seen it and didn't like its lum markers, its style of Arabic markers, or its cheese grater style of guilloche. The Chronograph or Dual Time negate those issues.

Yes, there is always plenty of room in my collection for various brands to live together happily. Now, if only I could win one of those record setting lottery jackpots, then I could bring more of them together sooner!

Perhaps the Overseas should be cut some slack as it has to battle the original line up of ROs, and the Offshores. Its tough for any watch to cover all the bases.

My local Costco had a rose gold Panerai for $20K+. Not sure who buys that, but I guess it is similar to the guy who walks in a buys a Hublot cause he likes the style.



Beckwith said:

My local Costco had a rose gold Panerai for $20K+. Not sure who buys that, but I guess it is similar to the guy who walks in a buys a Hublot cause he likes the style.

Click to expand...

I saw a rose gold Zenith in my Costco yesterday. My new next door neighbor owns an AD that happens to be a Zenith dealer, I've been meaning to ask him where these Costco watches come from and what the angle is there.

Now, I don't believe I'd buy a Pam from Costco, nor would I buy a Hub. Some people would, fine. Who am I to cast aspersions on someone else's choices though? There has been mention made in the last week or so about these matters, disparaging remarks that are unnecessary (demographics indeed!) and comments in a tome unbecoming of this very friendly and welcoming, supportive thread.

Just saying

Carry on



Cleav said:

Now, I don't believe I'd buy a Pam from Costco, nor would I buy a Hub. Some people would, fine. Who am I to cast aspersions on someone else's choices though? There has been mention made in the last week or so about these matters, disparaging remarks that are unnecessary (demographics indeed!) and comments in a tome unbecoming of this very friendly and welcoming, supportive thread.

Just saying

Carry on

Click to expand...

Given Costco's return policies, they might be the best place to buy a watch from. Could you imagine waltzing in there 2 years later and returning your gold Daytona because you just had a change of heart? LOL



TC (Houston) said:

I saw a rose gold Zenith in my Costco yesterday. My new next door neighbor owns an AD that happens to be a Zenith dealer, I've been meaning to ask him where these Costco watches come from and what the angle is there.

Click to expand...

The dirty little secret (which is no real secret) is that the watch industry has no issue with the grey market and needs it as much as it needs the ADs. While you have very hot selling watches and very successful AD's, the reality is that the majority of watches and ADs need "help" to move. Given that AD's get most watches at 50% less than the MSRP, there is room for grey market dealers to come in, move inventory and everyone makes some money (and customers get watches cheaper). I am not a big timer but have had the good fortune to procure watches for a few people. AP's, Pateks, Panerai's etc. I have gone through some grey market contacts and the watches have come from some very high end and well known watch dealers here in the NY tri state area. With warranties, stamps, even receipts.

As for Costco, I would feel more comfortable spending 20K plus on a watch there, then anywhere else. Their return policy is second to none and while no one will admit it, when you take a watch to them to repair, it goes right to the same places that the AD's send there watches to repair, the brand's repair centers. Keep in mind that Costco has more buying power than all of Panerai's AD's combined. Panerai would never want to be associated publicly with Costco, but Costco ain't stealing these watches, they come from AD's and some come directly from the brands themselves.