The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

HRoi said:

yes sir, and thank you. it is a happy new year for me and between this and the JLC i think i am done for awhile.

Click to expand...

Damn that's beautiful! Congrats!

Absolutely awesome Hroi. Just a gorgeous watch, I hope that you wear it in the very best of health! I would love to see more pics when you get the chance, as well as hear how you reached your decision. Is it new or used? And where did you get it from! Sorry for the 20 questions, I would just like to hear more about the buying experience.

HRoi, congrats, that's a beautiful Lange....and yes, we'd all love to see more pics.




Its been harsh all over the US, but for you guys up north, where the *bitter* cold and the snow have been especially bad lately....just think warm thoughts, okay?



Kaplan said:

Thanks. Did the Mk XVI come on a croc grain strap? I thought it was a real croc? Either way, I found it a little odd that IWC chose to dress the buckle down, from a deployant to a tang, and dress the leather up, going from buffalo to croc, when they replaced the XV with the XVI...


@suaviter, I use a Bergeon tool too (No 6767). Less risk of getting scratches when changing spring bars, than when changing Panerai style straps with a screwdriver, IME.

Click to expand...

Kaplan, I still have the original strap in unworn condition, and I honestly can't say if it's actual croc or just croc-grain...I would have to look. But regardless, I switched it out for a similar pattern (in calf) immediately, and I do this for a lot of my watches. No intentions to sell, but it's nice to keep that OEM strap's virginity intact, just in case.

Agree with you that that IWC made some interesting choices in the transition from Mark XV to XVI (and subsequently XVII, possibly even moreso), but I will say that the buffalo is a nice look on that piece.

Someone also had posted a pic of their IWC pilot (think it was a XVI) on a black Maratac composite strap, and I thought that was a great combo. Can't recall if that was here on SF, or possibly another watch forum, but I quite liked it.

Newcomer said:

Has anyone had a chance to read the article on Hodinkee yesterday?

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/audemars-piguet-royal-oak-chronograph-review

A great article, despite it being review for the most part. Nonetheless, I like the general premise--that the ROC is nothing short of a modern classic. It really is an excellent combination of past and present. I am not sure how I feel about the rose gold, and I feel like the author has similar feelings. Gold may be a big soft, especially considering all the brushed and polished surfaces.

Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to read it but I plan to when I get a bit of time.

suaviter said:

Great article ... after this thread with our friend dino and TC's showcasing I have serious Royal Oak fever.

Click to expand...

Once you catch RO fever...there is no cure. The best you can hope for is a prescription from the doctor to explain to your wife/significant other why you need a RO!

HRoi said:

hmm...how does one unscrew a hexagonal screw? that may be explained in the video, but i am not in a position to play it right now

Click to expand...

Only the top/cap is hexagonal. Personally, I think its a nice finishing touch, but not that practical on the chrono pushers. I find them a bit slick and a pain to grasp to unscrew. The "teethed" screw down pushers on Daytonas, Overseas and other watches are easier to screw/unscrew.

in stitches said:

great read, gorgeous watch, but for me, the simple 3 handed RO is the watch to have. :swoon:

also, thoughts on the 15202?

Click to expand...

robw said:

I read it. I am an AP fan and own a stainless RO chrono (the prior 39mm model) which I absolutely love. I wouldn't have any problem with wearing the watch in gold either.

However, I have a hard time seeing what this new model brings to the table other than a larger case. It has the same non exclusive chrono mvmt as the prior model (which is I have to say works great and has been running flawlessly for me for years). Without question a beautiful and beautifully made, high quality, high end product, but it seems to me like most of the RO offshore models: extremely cool but not especially interesting. 54k for this watch is hard to justify. The comparison to Patek IMO is a non starter. I don't especially like the nautilus which itself is outrageously priced but they are just not in the same league.

A Rolex Daytona in rose gold lists these days for about 37k or so and that has its own excellent house mvmt. It's very hard for me to see the premium AP is looking for here as justified. Maybe on the secondary or grey market with discounting, the difference between those 2 watches gets a lot smaller. I can see myself paying more for the AP but not much frankly.

I think the idea expressed in the article that the customer AP has in mind for the RO and offshore models (that is most of them, some are quite complicated and interesting) is not really interested in the horological aspects is essentially correct.

Click to expand...

Personally, I think its a beautiful watch. The finish greatly exceeds that of what you will get with a current Rolex Daytona. There simply is no comparison. As for the price...well you have to remember you are now dealing with a boat load of gold. Keep in mind a new SS Daytona is under $14,000 ...but in rose its $40,000. As for the AP in steel its about $24,000. So what you are really seeing is prices escalating by about $30K on each watch. In the mid 1990s a steel Daytona was about $4,000 and in gold it was $17,000. In the late 90s a RO chrono listed for $12,500 and in gold it was about $25,000...but you could get bigger discounts on the APs. Fast forward to huge price increase both because watch companies decided they could (even on steel models) and the huge jump in the price of gold in recent years and you now have gold watches that sell for crazy money. Even a basic Calatrava was a $9,500 watch (before huge discounts in the late 1990s you could buy new from ADs for about $6K)...now they are hovering around $30K.

I'm not sure which model you are comparing to a Patek. Patek does some great movements...and maybe its blasphemy, but the 5980 is a hideous watch. Lumpy, and lacking the beauty, and svelte lines of the 5711 and original 3700, and a goofy subdial within a subdial that I find tough to read...oh and in RG I believe its list price was about $80K...so you pay another $25K for its inhouse movement. I'll gladly compare a 5711 to a 15202 Jumbo both in steel, because that is fair in terms of function, metal, and price...but if you want to talk chrono versions of each...the finish is fantastic on both, you don't get an inhouse movement on the RO Chrono (but its a lot less expensive) and its a far better looking chronograph.

As an owner of a RO Jumbo (not a chrono) and an owner of a few Daytonas...I think each is a fantastic watch, with its own merits and its own fan base. Also don't forget, Rolex only has only had an inhouse movement since 2000, prior to that it used a heavily modified El Primero and prior to that a Valjoux 72. So back when they started, none of them used an inhouse movement. Beyond that...check the prices of the Rolex's without inhouse movements and you will find they often exceed those of the current models in the second hand market. In house movements are nice, but they only have so much value in the real world. I own and in house movement Daytona and a El Primero based Daytona and each are really nice...but I favor the old model over the new. I consider myself lucky to own examples from each brand. However, the quality of the RO greatly exceeds what you will find in a Daytona and I can see a premium for them over the current Daytona...but YMMV.
Below is mid 90s Daytona Here is a newer model from just after I purchased it.

qubed said:

I was a bit surprised to see how scratch heavy the rose gold ROC was. How scratchy are stainless Royal Oaks? Anyone have both a stainless & gold one and can compare them?

Click to expand...

Gold is insanely soft. It shows hairlines from dress shirts in just a few days. I have a SS RO that I've worn as a daily wearer for 16 months and because I'm careful with it it still looks like new.

mimo said:

During my summer tyre-kicking I came to the same conclusions - the 41mm case is OK, but 39mm is perfect. And for price comparisons, a mint 39mm ROC costs about $12k used. As even a used Daytona is still $10k-plus if mint with box and papers, then the ROC looks like a real winner. But new versus new, I think Rob's probably right: the ROC might still be nicer, but two-Daytonas-nice is debatable.

Click to expand...

I think there is room in a collection for ROs of different sizes. When shopping for ROs I considered 15300, the 15400, and the 39mm and 41mm chrono. As far as time only pieces....I favor the Jumbo. Its a classic based on the original specs. Everything about it is exceptional, and I greatly prefer the 2 hands, dark date wheel, dial, and the classic 2121 movement. I just felt for a time only, the 41 was nice...but the proportions seemed a bit off to me, at least on my wrist. While the chrono, I prefer in the 41. The subdials fill out the size better, it takes on a sportier feel than the 39 version. I always liked the 39 chrono, but something about it didn't work for me. I think the 41 Chrono would be my next choice for an AP if I were to ever choose a second RO.

HRoi said:

yes sir, and thank you. it is a happy new year for me and between this and the JLC i think i am done for awhile.

Click to expand...

Stunning!!! Congrats and enjoy that beauty in good health! Way to ring in the New Year!!!

great stuff, dino. any thoughts though on the 15202 vs the 15400?

jesus, @hroi. fantastic

thank you everyone for your very kind comments. i'm super excited about this.

in response to the request for more info - it is new, and purchased from an AD. the Lange 1 has been my grail primarily because of its aesthetics - it's the pinnacle of how i would define a simple, beautiful watch. i know that there are many reasons to buy a ALS, but if i'm completely honest with myself, that's the primary reason for me

my initial plan was to acquire the JLC Master Geographic this holiday, and the Lange in (late) 2014. well, i walked into the AD and was immediately offered a very competitive price (equal to the internet gray market dealers) for it, so i pulled the trigger and thought i was done for 12 months. well, i accompanied my parents to the same store two weeks later and ran into the same SA. well, we got to chatting while my dad was trying on every watch in the place, and i told her that my grail watch was the Lange 1. "oh really," she says, and unlocks a display case and shows me this beauty, and punches up a number for me. the deal was even better (as a % of MSRP) than the JLC.

so the rest is history...i still have some buyers remorse because this is by far the biggest impulse purchase i've made, but still very happy. besides, i did stick to the plan to get it in 2014, didn't i?

Holy Bazinga...!

Congrats!

HRoi said:

yes sir, and thank you. it is a happy new year for me and between this and the JLC i think i am done for awhile.

Click to expand...

I happily own and enjoy both chronos, a RO and Daytona (with a 4130 mvmt)

The finish on the RO, especially the dial and bracelet, is certainly in a different class than the Daytona, no question. What it comes down to, in my view, is as a piece of jewelry, the AP wins. As a piece of horology, I don't think it does.

I am familiar with what was going on back then, and as it happens I paid about 40% more for my Daytona than for my RO Chrono when I bought each (within about the same 18 month period) in the early 00s. This was very shortly after the 4130 mvmt was introduced. No regrets.

Regards,

Dino944 said:

Personally, I think its a beautiful watch.  The finish greatly exceeds that of what you will get with a current Rolex Daytona.  There simply is no comparison.  As for the price...well you have to remember you are now dealing with a boat load of gold.  Keep in mind a new SS Daytona is under $14,000 ...but in rose its $40,000.  As for the AP in steel its about $24,000.  So what you are really seeing is prices escalating by about $30K on each watch.  In the mid 1990s a steel Daytona was about $4,000 and in gold it was $17,000.  In the late 90s a RO chrono listed for $12,500 and in gold it was about $25,000...but you could get bigger discounts on the APs.  Fast forward to huge price increase both because watch companies decided they could (even on steel models) and the huge jump in the price of gold in recent years and you now have gold watches that sell for crazy money.  Even a basic Calatrava was a $9,500 watch (before huge discounts in the late 1990s you could buy new from ADs for about $6K)...now they are hovering around $30K.

Click to expand...



HRoi said:

so the rest is history...i still have some buyers remorse because this is by far the biggest impulse purchase i've made, but still very happy. besides, i did stick to the plan to get it in 2014, didn't i?

Click to expand...

Some things are just meant to be, and you are presented a unique opportunity that just feels right, you should jump on it! Congrats again!

HRoi said:

thank you everyone for your very kind comments. i'm super excited about this.

in response to the request for more info - it is new, and purchased from an AD. the Lange 1 has been my grail primarily because of its aesthetics - it's the pinnacle of how i would define a simple, beautiful watch. i know that there are many reasons to buy a ALS, but if i'm completely honest with myself, that's the primary reason for me

....
so the rest is history...i still have some buyers remorse because this is by far the biggest impulse purchase i've made, but still very happy. besides, i did stick to the plan to get it in 2014, didn't i?

Click to expand...

Congrats again. Just an amazing time piece. To me its still as fresh and beautiful as when the design was first unveiled many years ago. Its dressy and yet its not stodgy, which is an issue I have with some dress watches from high end brands. Hopefully, the buyers remorse will be gone soon and you will have many years of enjoyment from this watch. Wishing you lots of luck with it.

TC.............whadja order now??

The 41MM AP wasn't enough??

HRoi said:

yes sir, and thank you. it is a happy new year for me and between this and the JLC i think i am done for awhile.

Click to expand...

CONGRATS!

This thread is on FIRE!