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Advice re: navy suit jacket - Page 2

post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdoctor View Post
 

 

I'm pretty sure that 99% of the population would think that looks very good.

 

I agree.  But then again my goal in dressing is being well dressed without getting dressed up.  To achieve my style I look to classic menswear for inspiration and not rules.  I have no probelm wearing sports coats or blazers with jeans and without a tie.  Something that most of the vocal members on this forum frown upon.  

 

The goal in wearing orphan jackets is matching them with trousers that are cut in a similar way a suit trouser.  This way you can maintain the sleek silhouette of the original suit.  Suit jackets are formal attire.  If you want to wear it with jeans, there will be already a contrast between the formal and the informal. IMO faded jeans this contrast will be too much.  Choose jeans that are darker in colour with no designs.  

post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

I agree.  But then again my goal in dressing is being well dressed without getting dressed up.  

What exactly does this mean? There's nothing wrong with being dressed up in situations that call for it. If you mean you try to look nice, buy quality items and perhaps dress with some additional attention to detail (and maybe wear an odd jacket from time to time in a more casual context), I don't think this is too unusual, but it also really has no bearing on your argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

I have no probelm wearing sports coats or blazers with jeans and without a tie.  Something that most of the vocal members on this forum frown upon.  

I think that a navy blazer with jeans looks absolutely awful but see no issue pairing a non-blazer odd jacket with jeans, even though I don't do it myself. It's not exactly classic menswear, but you might want to check out the MC Casual thread for inspiration on this point. If you are wearing jeans, I certainly hope you're not wearing a tie anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

The goal in wearing orphan jackets is matching them with trousers that are cut in a similar way a suit trouser.  This way you can maintain the sleek silhouette of the original suit.

Huh? The issue with orphaned jackets is that they are like orphaned jackets. You can wear trousers that are cut similarly and this doesn't solve a thing. You can say you don't care, but once you have an orphaned jacket, there are two good responses. IMO the goal should be to make the oprhaned jacket look less orphaned, which is basically not possible in this case due to the details on the jacket, or to get rid of it. There's no point in trying to make a garment into something it isn't.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdoctor View Post

I'm pretty sure that 99% of the population would think that looks very good.

People are way too quick to pull the "99% of people don't care argument out. As one delves into certain mundane details of classic menswear, it's probably accurate and worth considering. When we're dealing with something basic like not trying to pretend a self-striped suit jacket is a navy blazer. it starts to get ridiculous. Not only is 99% a gross exaggeration in this case, but if you're going to do something (like dress well), you should do it right, not figure out what really basic things you can get away with not doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balfour View Post

Is that the standard to shoot for?  

Looks bad as a suit jacket and would absolutely not be capable of being adapted as a blazer (as understood in any classical sense). A plain worsted navy jacket can work (with metal buttons), but is suboptimal (often very much so).  This is in trainwreck territory.

+1.
post #19 of 33
Contrary to what some people in this thread are saying, that jacket, as the OP mentioned, has a subtle herringbone pattern, not a self stripe pattern (subtle or otherwise).

The picture (which is of bad quality) makes the jacket look like a self stripe that is not too bold nor too subtle but still subtle overall.
post #20 of 33
Normally, I'd say don't, but then again my favourite jacket is a dark blue herringbone one that I originally had made as part of a suit. I generally wear it with good grey or tan trousers though, and never jeans. It has some featues that are unsuitlike however, notably that it's ventless. No-one here or anywhere else has ever told me it looked orphaned. Yours, however, does. I guess that it's your call whether you care or not.
post #21 of 33
OP, if this really can't be mistaken for self-striped, try posting another photo. It's probably still a no-go, but at least we'll have something better to work with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OxxfordSJLINY View Post

Contrary to what some people in this thread are saying, that jacket, as the OP mentioned, has a subtle herringbone pattern, not a self stripe pattern (subtle or otherwise).

The picture (which is of bad quality) makes the jacket look like a self stripe that is not too bold nor too subtle but still subtle overall.

Some subtle herringbones can look self-striped and very subtle herringbones often don't make for good odd jackets anyway. Whether they actually are or not is less important than what they actually look like. Perhaps the photo is highly misleading, but we can only go on what we have in front of us.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


What exactly does this mean? There's nothing wrong with being dressed up in situations that call for it. If you mean you try to look nice, buy quality items and perhaps dress with some additional attention to detail (and maybe wear an odd jacket from time to time in a more casual context), I don't think this is too unusual, but it also really has no bearing on your argument.
I think that a navy blazer with jeans looks absolutely awful but see no issue pairing a non-blazer odd jacket with jeans, even though I don't do it myself. It's not exactly classic menswear, but you might want to check out the MC Casual thread for inspiration on this point. If you are wearing jeans, I certainly hope you're not wearing a tie anyway.
Huh? The issue with orphaned jackets is that they are like orphaned jackets. You can wear trousers that are cut similarly and this doesn't solve a thing. You can say you don't care, but once you have an orphaned jacket, there are two good responses. IMO the goal should be to make the oprhaned jacket look less orphaned, which is basically not possible in this case due to the details on the jacket, or to get rid of it. There's no point in trying to make a garment into something it isn't.

"There's nothing wrong with being dressed up in situations that call for it."   I agree.  I was referring to everyday wear.  Wearing anything but jeans with a sports coat or blazer is being dressed up were I live.

 

"Huh? The issue with orphaned jackets is that they are like orphaned jackets".  Which is why I others say that 99% of the population think that this would be a good look.  IMO the orphan suit phobia is clearly a peculiarity  of the  members here on style forum.  To the OP if he likes the look, he should not pay any attention to the other members.  They are a minority in society.  When done properly, I do not buy into the opinion that this is an "awful look". I bought an orphan Oxxford jacket on ebay, that I like to wear with orphan pants.  The Oxxford jacket looks absolutely amazing.  My wife likes the look even more than when I wear a suit.  Here is the secret when wearing any clothes.  I really like the look.  When I wear it, I wear it with confidence, and this confidence makes me look good.

post #23 of 33
Quote:

IMO the orphan suit phobia is clearly a peculiarity  of the  members here on style forum.  To the OP if he likes the look, he should not pay any attention to the other members.  They are a minority in society.  When done properly, I do not buy into the opinion that this is an "awful look". 

To be fair, he did ask for the opinion of the members here for whom you appear to have such disdain.

 

Nor is this a bit of SF groupthink: my involvement here is relatively recent and limited.  But if you had asked me whether this was a good idea five or ten years ago, my answer would have been the same.  

 

(It is true that 'groupthink' develops here about certain things: e.g. odd jacket should always be darker than odd trousers.  Sometimes the groupthink is presented as if it were a rule or custom of classical dress, when it is not.  If you made your 'peculiarities of the Forum' comment about true groupthink you would be on target.  But you are a good way off target here.)

post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

"There's nothing wrong with being dressed up in situations that call for it."   I agree.  I was referring to everyday wear.  Wearing anything but jeans with a sports coat or blazer is being dressed up were I live.

So what you mean by well dressed is looking good without significantly exceeding the level of formality of those around you? Sounds fair and I understand that this means different things in different parts of the country. Seriously, check out the MC Casual thread. Many SFers are in major cities where a suit and tie are not at all uncommon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

"Huh? The issue with orphaned jackets is that they are like orphaned jackets".  Which is why I others say that 99% of the population think that this would be a good look.  IMO the orphan suit phobia is clearly a peculiarity  of the  members here on style forum.  To the OP if he likes the look, he should not pay any attention to the other members.  They are a minority in society.  When done properly, I do not buy into the opinion that this is an "awful look". I bought an orphan Oxxford jacket on ebay, that I like to wear with orphan pants.  The Oxxford jacket looks absolutely amazing.  My wife likes the look even more than when I wear a suit.  Here is the secret when wearing any clothes.  I really like the look.  When I wear it, I wear it with confidence, and this confidence makes me look good.

Count me among those who thought this was a bad look pre-SF. I think you and a majority of those here are just going to have to agree to disagree about whether wearing obviously orphaned jackets is a bad look or whether it can be done properly. Using exaggerated numbers like 99% isn't helpful. I have plenty of friends who spend their time in casual clothes and would not set foot on SF that pick up on things like this. If OP didn't want the opinion of those here, he wouldn't ask the question here. People who care about clothes are far more likely to dislike the orphaned suit jacket look and people who don't care about clothes probably won't care what OP wears anyway.

Nobody is going to disagree with you that confidence is attractive and can help make a look. Clothes are not a large part of how we're judged most of the time, but they do play a part in how we're viewed and this is a forum dedicated to them. It's not exactly a secret, but confidence affects one's ability to pull off a particular look more than making a look good in and of itself. I just think that confidence plus an objectively good look is better than confidence plus a sub-par one. Of course confidence plus a sub-par look is probably better than an objectively good look plus insecurity.
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balfour View Post
 

To be fair, he did ask for the opinion of the members here for whom you appear to have such disdain.

 

Nor is this a bit of SF groupthink: my involvement here is relatively recent and limited.  But if you had asked me whether this was a good idea five or ten years ago, my answer would have been the same.  

 

(It is true that 'groupthink' develops here about certain things: e.g. odd jacket should always be darker than odd trousers.  Sometimes the groupthink is presented as if it were a rule or custom of classical dress, when it is not.  If you made your 'peculiarities of the Forum' comment about true groupthink you would be on target.  But you are a good way off target here.)

Re regarding group think.  If this was a pinstriped suit, I would not have claimed group think.   I have done a lot of research outside of SF, the opinion of many style bloggers is that the difference between a navy blue suit jacket and a blazer is subtle.  One of these subtleties are the buttons.  If you change the buttons like the OP wants to do, the difference between the two is negligible.  But yet somehow you seem to maintain that this negligible difference between an awful and a sharp look.

post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


So what you mean by well dressed is looking good without significantly exceeding the level of formality of those around you? Sounds fair and I understand that this means different things in different parts of the country. Seriously, check out the MC Casual thread. Many SFers are in major cities where a suit and tie are not at all uncommon.
Count me among those who thought this was a bad look pre-SF. I think you and a majority of those here are just going to have to agree to disagree about whether wearing obviously orphaned jackets is a bad look or whether it can be done properly. Using exaggerated numbers like 99% isn't helpful. I have plenty of friends who spend their time in casual clothes and would not set foot on SF that pick up on things like this. If OP didn't want the opinion of those here, he wouldn't ask the question here. People who care about clothes are far more likely to dislike the orphaned suit jacket look and people who don't care about clothes probably won't care what OP wears anyway.

Nobody is going to disagree with you that confidence is attractive and can help make a look. Clothes are not a large part of how we're judged most of the time, but they do play a part in how we're viewed and this is a forum dedicated to them. It's not exactly a secret, but confidence affects one's ability to pull off a particular look more than making a look good in and of itself. I just think that confidence plus an objectively good look is better than confidence plus a sub-par one. Of course confidence plus a sub-par look is probably better than an objectively good look plus insecurity.

It is just that was is an objectively good look and what is a sub par one is subjective.

 

Tell me the truth.  Take a high end navy blue suit jacket, change the buttons like the OP wants, and ask people to rate the look on a scale of one to ten.  Now have that person take off the jacket and put on a proper navy blue blazer (also from a high end brand, pants, shirt, tie, pocket square remain the same) and have the same people rate the jacket on a scale of one to ten. Do you really think that there will be a huge difference in the ratings?  I do not.

post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post
 

Re regarding group think.  If this was a pinstriped suit, I would not have claimed group think.   I have done a lot of research outside of SF, the opinion of many style bloggers is that the difference between a navy blue suit jacket and a blazer is subtle.  One of these subtleties are the buttons.  If you change the buttons like the OP wants to do, the difference between the two is negligible.  But yet somehow you seem to maintain that this negligible difference between an awful and a sharp look.

 

There's a non-negligible difference in my view between:

 

(1) A plain matt navy worsted suit jacket (plain weave, twill, etc.).

 

(2) As here, a shiny worsted with a pronounced herringbone.

 

As noted in my previous posts, (1) can be converted into a blazer in a pinch if you swap the buttons over.  It won't look awful, but it is still likely to be flat / dull / suboptimal.  If the OP had that sort of jacket, I would encourage him to proceed as he suggests (but noting the limitations).

 

But if you think the differences between a proper blazer and (2) are subtle, then I have to wonder about where you've been doing your research.  Reddit?

 

Compare:

 

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality

http://www.styleforum.net/t/71198/the-amazing-blazer-suit/0_50

 

Note the rusticated features in the Blazer Suit:  fresco (& the texture is by no means apparent in this picture); patch pockets; swelled edges, etc.  Or look at Caustic Man's blazer posted a little while ago in the whnay. thread.


Edited by Balfour - 9/15/13 at 1:49pm
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post
Do you really think that there will be a huge difference in the ratings?  I do not.

 

I agree. But only because average person has only the vaguest interest and understanding of SC minutiae.

 

But the blazerized orphan in question, by virtue of its hard-worsted shine, is  a tough one to dress down. Jeans are not simply jeans. From what I can tell, most posters on this side of the SF pond have either no inclination to wear jeans with a SC, or will choose jeans that are verging on nu-Dadcore (no break / stacking, very little distressing, straight leg). While I don't think this is horrible, it does seem excessively conservative to me, especially when paired with polished shoes and a shiny tie. Even worse is the tieless, stiff collar dress shirt. The OP's jeans, with their weird dark wash and light but fake distressing are pretty bad, from what I can see. Sorry.

 

I won't hesitate to wear jeans with a SC, but they'll be pretty beat up. Plain sneakers down below more often than not, but sometimes I'll wear Clark's Wallabees just for that history prof vibe. Patterned shirts with texture, soft collar. Grenadine or wool tie sometimes. Embroidered linen, or a bandanna in the pocket. Sue me. I'll wear flecktarn BDUs with a Harris tweed jacket, but only at Pitti.

 

All of the above I feel I can pull off with a couple of suit jackets of mine, specifically a striped grey peak-lapel flannel, and a light grey POW with blue/brown check notch lapel. I have a navy peak DB with brown buttons in a brushed twill that seems a likely candidate, but probably not with jeans. Grey or burgundy flannel trousers, perhaps.

 

But I don't think I'd even try with an orphaned blue worsted jacket. It seems a shame to toss out a perfectly good suit jacket, but pairing that specific one not so simple as having it pinch hit for a proper SC. The medium blue is problematic with jeans. Tan jeans do not solve this, but chinos or cords juuuust might. I think it could work reasonably well with light-to-medium grey trousers, brown or oxblood calf shoos, and some kind of conservative shirt and tie. For whatever reason, brown or navy worsted trousers push it into #mensfashunz territory, which is not a bad thing if you have the chops to wear an unmatched suit. Check SWD darlings Frank Leder or Stephan Schneider for inspiration. Don't ask me about tan pants.      

post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates View Post

It is just that was is an objectively good look and what is a sub par one is subjective.

Tell me the truth.  Take a high end navy blue suit jacket, change the buttons like the OP wants, and ask people to rate the look on a scale of one to ten.  Now have that person take off the jacket and put on a proper navy blue blazer (also from a high end brand, pants, shirt, tie, pocket square remain the same) and have the same people rate the jacket on a scale of one to ten. Do you really think that there will be a huge difference in the ratings?  I do not.

Don't try to modify the hypothetical here. We're not talking about a "high end navy blue suit jacket." We're talking about the jacket that OP showed us a picture of, which is very clearly a suit jacket that one can only do so much with. Not every attractive navy suit jacket that would look lovely as part of a suit is the same.
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


Don't try to modify the hypothetical here. We're not talking about a "high end navy blue suit jacket." We're talking about the jacket that OP showed us a picture of, which is very clearly a suit jacket that one can only do so much with. Not every attractive navy suit jacket that would look lovely as part of a suit is the same.

I mentioned high end, because in such a study, all else must be constant.  Contrasting a high end suit jacket with a low end blazer,  or vise versa, is not a fair comparison.  But  high end low end, it does not make a difference.  To a clothing enthusiast who is very knowledgeable on this subject, like you and Mr Balfour are, you may notice this difference, but to the everyday people, who comprise 99% of the population, they will not.  That is why I think in such a hypothetical study there will be not be any difference in the ratings as when the subject wears a proper blazer, or an orphan.  If you believe otherwise, then we will agree that we disagree on this subject matter.

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