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NFL 2016-17 Thread - Page 293

post #4381 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post


"Who is the GOAT?" is an inherently unanswerable question in any sport, no more so than football, which relies on the performance of more than twenty players to achieve a goal. If you put the most credence in championship wins, you like Brady, Montana, or Bradshaw. If you like statistics, it's Manning or Favre. No QB has ever had a better overall skill set than Elway, and no one has ever played the position more proficiently than Rodgers. It's enough of an honor to be in the conversation, which both Brady and Manning are.

I wouldn't put Favre in the same class of Manning. Manning's stats are undeniably better. Elway is great too. So is Rodgers. Brady ties for most championships, is way ahead in total playoff wins, and doesn't do bad in the stats column either. I like Brady in this conversation, but acknowledge I am biased and there is some subjectivity.

Marino is often overlooked due to no rings. He belongs in the top 10 IMHO.
post #4382 of 4994
Not diving after the second fumble deep in Carolina territory, when his team needed to keep the ball to have any chance of winning the game, is going to follow Newton for a long, long time. Not sure what he was thinking. Thought his arm was moving forward? Didn't think the game was winnable? Brain fart?
post #4383 of 4994
^ Indeed. I think the other 31 starting QBs in the NFL would have gone after the fumble.
post #4384 of 4994
It honestly looked like a brain fart to me, that momentary freeze before he dove for it has all the hallmarks of one. Cam hasn't shied away from physical contact at any point of his career. His rushing stats speak for themselves in that arena.

As for his press conference, the guy just lost the biggest game of his career. This is the pinnacle of what he's striven for since he first touched a football and he got entirely manhandled by the Broncos' D (props to Von Miller for his deserved MVP). I can't imagine failing in the most important moment of my professional career and then immediately facing a room full of cameras with reporters asking me how I felt disappointed for letting my teammates/coworkers down. Cut him some slack.

Though I do feel a certain amount of schadenfreude for all the Panthers' bandwagoners. I wonder what they'll do with all their crisp new Panthers gear.
post #4385 of 4994
^ Well, it's always enjoyable to see bandwagon fans after their newly discovered team loses. That, and the people who move to a new city and decide to start supporting the local team.
post #4386 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post

It honestly looked like a brain fart to me, that momentary freeze before he dove for it has all the hallmarks of one. Cam hasn't shied away from physical contact at any point of his career. His rushing stats speak for themselves in that arena.

As for his press conference, the guy just lost the biggest game of his career. This is the pinnacle of what he's striven for since he first touched a football and he got entirely manhandled by the Broncos' D (props to Von Miller for his deserved MVP). I can't imagine failing in the most important moment of my professional career and then immediately facing a room full of cameras with reporters asking me how I felt disappointed for letting my teammates/coworkers down. Cut him some slack.

Though I do feel a certain amount of schadenfreude for all the Panthers' bandwagoners. I wonder what they'll do with all their crisp new Panthers gear.

As a former reporter whose been to many many press conferences--we can be suck dickholes. At the same time, all we wanted was for our life to be made easy, a little help doing our job. And we always knew that no matter what we had the soapbox at the end of the day.

But more deference should go to $cam.
post #4387 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post

Not diving after the second fumble deep in Carolina territory, when his team needed to keep the ball to have any chance of winning the game, is going to follow Newton for a long, long time. Not sure what he was thinking.

I think it was pretty clear what he was thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post

As for his press conference, the guy just lost the biggest game of his career. This is the pinnacle of what he's striven for since he first touched a football and he got entirely manhandled by the Broncos' D (props to Von Miller for his deserved MVP). I can't imagine failing in the most important moment of my professional career and then immediately facing a room full of cameras with reporters asking me how I felt disappointed for letting my teammates/coworkers down. Cut him some slack.

Funny that 49 other QB's in the same position never had a problem doing their job (yes, it's part of their employment responsibilities) in the post-game. His further comments today just reinforce how much of a self-absorbed asshole this douchebag is.

To a reporter's comment that he had offended many people and fans! with his behavior … "That's cool."

further … "But I know who I am and I'm not about to conform nor bend for anybody's expectations because your or anybody else's expectations will never exceed mine." Really? Your expectations are so high and lofty, yet they seem not to include the basic responsibilities of civility, media-availability and not acting like a spoiled 2-year-old child?

Ron Rivera goes on to make more excuses. Fuck $cam and all his douchebaggery 1,000x times over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

As a former reporter whose been to many many press conferences--we can be suck dickholes. At the same time, all we wanted was for our life to be made easy, a little help doing our job.

True, but nobody was doing that. In fact the questions were quite sympathetic/empathetic and he just kept being a DB.
post #4388 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

I don't necessarily disagree, but the reality is that championships are a big part of a QB's legacy. Of course football is a team sport, but a lot, for better or worse, gets hung on the QB. With two QBs with fairly comparable stats, rings are going to enter the discussion.

You realize that's a completely circular argument, right?
post #4389 of 4994

I dont think he's taking that argument, I think he's saying 'people' (traditionalists) say/argue that. (trying to give him credit here)

post #4390 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

s, is way ahead in total playoff wins, .

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the playoffs had more rounds by the time he started playing.
post #4391 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I dont think he's taking that argument, I think he's saying 'people' (traditionalists) say/argue that. (trying to give him credit here)

You could be right, but I was reading that as a follow-up to:
Quote:
And he still would be. Tied for most SB wins, record for most SB starts, record for conference championship starts, record for most playoff wins, etc. Peyton can have his regular season stats. I'll take the rings over the stats any day.
post #4392 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

You realize that's a completely circular argument, right?

I'm not actually making that argument here, though. I'm simply acknowledging that a lot of people think rings matter, especially when we're anywhere near a tie in statistics.
post #4393 of 4994

edit - not worth it

post #4394 of 4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

I'm not actually making that argument here, though. I'm simply acknowledging that a lot of people think rings matter, especially when we're anywhere near a tie in statistics.

Fair enough.
post #4395 of 4994
@lawyerdad, the other comment you quoted was a response to someone implying that the results of this Superbowl would somehow affect arguments about whether Brady / Manning is better. If that second ring in a year when Manning has played poorly really puts him in a different conversation regarding his legacy / all time great status, it logically follows that rings and postseason matter a lot. If that's the criteria, Brady clearly wins and its not even close. It was intended more as a "let's take this to its conclusion" sort of thing than an affirmative statement that I personally believe championships / playoff success is the strongest determination of which QBs are the best.

I do think that rings are relevant as are total playoff wins, but they obviously don't tell the whole story. I would, for example, put someone like Dan Marino a good bit ahead of a number of QBs who have one or more Superbowl rings.
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