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Your favorite shirts brand? - Page 2

post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
As I understand it, the split yoke on RTW shirts is useless as both sides of the yoke are made to the same size. Also, I have to say that the gusset is just as bad.  Shirts no longer receive much stress at the gusset point as they longer have to be put on over the head.  Now a shirt's buttons will tear off long before the side seam rips.  Gussets are the Maginot Line of shirting.
But this "line" goes with better sens of details and takes time and fabrics so shirts without it should be cheaper.
post #17 of 36
Ernest, I'm glad I mis-interpreted the tone of your first answer. I'm all for testing and I will try an H&K next week if I like what I see in the shop. I tend to have a global look at the shirt rather than go for details. I either like it or not. It fits or not. Technical details are for the tailor, not for me. But to each is own. I don't think I'm guilty of 'primary nationalism'. I'm Belgian and live in France for 5 years only. Of course buying a H&K in Paris will put a bit of money in the distribution channel. But the main part will go in H&K pocket, whatever their capital mix is. I think it is worth supporting local brands (if they are good of course). It is more explicit with hifi: a Normandie based company (Atoll), 5 people or so, is able to produce CD players and amplifiers that are best buys in the 600-1000 EUR range. So, workforce cost is not the end of story; dedication and craftmanship are important too. I want to reward that and preserve it. Excuse my laziness but Figaret is 5 minutes away from the office (Champs Elysées). Rivoli is soooo far way. Cheers, P.
post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Actually, I just remembered I must go to London next Friday. I will buy a H&K and let you know if I find added-value in those features you mention. Our office is on Jermyn street so that should be quite feasible. P.
You can buy them in Paris.... What the good news. Figaret is not crap but H&K is a better deal. If you go to London, could you buy a shirt for me? You can see it on the website but it is not available in Paris anymore. I give you euros when you come back (between 45 and 43 GBP in London) with my shirt. In Jeremyn street you can try Harvie&Hudson = 3 shirts for 99 GBP last sales instead of 65 GBP per shirt. P.S. Les pointes des cols Figaret on tendance à plier, je me trompe?
post #19 of 36
Not necessarily. You can make a split yoke out of two smaller pieces of fabric, allowing for more efficient fabric usage. It is an empirical question as to which effect dominates. But the deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Ernest, I'm glad I mis-interpreted the tone of your first answer. I'm all for testing and I will try an H&K next week if I like what I see in the shop. I tend to have a global look at the shirt rather than go for details. I either like it or not. It fits or not. Technical details are for the tailor, not for me. But to each is own. I don't think I'm guilty of 'primary nationalism'. I'm Belgian and live in France for 5 years only. Of course buying a H&K in Paris will put a bit of money in the distribution channel. But the main part will go in H&K pocket, whatever their capital mix is. I think it is worth supporting local brands (if they are good of course). It is more explicit with hifi: a Normandie based company (Atoll), 5 people or so, is able to produce CD players and amplifiers that are best buys in the 600-1000 EUR range. So, workforce cost is not the end of story; dedication and craftmanship are important too. I want to reward that and preserve it. Excuse my laziness but Figaret is 5 minutes away from the office (Champs Elysées). Rivoli is soooo far way. Cheers, P.
H&K is at station CONCORDE....... Bad point for them = sellers (pas sympa du tout, hypocrites...) So better buy in London if you go to.
post #21 of 36
Quote:
Whether the stripes are conservative or not, I'm not found of them. [b] You said you prefer Figaret to H&k may be because Figaret is more conservative. So conservative seems important for you. You added you do not like stripes. Well, I just inform you : - H&K is more conservative than Figaret - stripes are conservative So you shoul like H&K.
I said I like Figaret shirts style. If they are not conservative so be it. I don't like stripes and squares on my shirts. I like them plain (I thought plain was conservative but I don't mind being excentric if this is what plain is). I specified my taste in shirt patterns as it explains I don't even know if Figaret matches patterns. I guess you understand your syllogism is plain wrong as it starts with the wrong assumption (me liking conservatism for the sake of it). Cheers, P. Damn with all this chatting. I already loose too much time ironing shirts. No I loose some more talking about them.
post #22 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Not necessarily.  You can make a split yoke out of two smaller pieces of fabric, allowing for more efficient fabric usage.  It is an empirical question as to which effect dominates. But the deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
Not with STRIPES
post #23 of 36
Quote:
...deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
perhaps in the strictest utilitarian sense, yes...however, in questions of style, not only are very few people concerned primarily with stripping away anything non-utilitarian, but the definition of the word itself becomes slippery and (dare i say it) subjective. one man's utility is another man's folly. the gusset, for example: maybe for some it is a symbol. symbols can be seen as having utility - it engenders a confidence in the quality of the shirt, perhaps. or maybe it gives some meaning to the wearer, as a type of secret. (much like wearing boxers of some wild color or pattern.) of course carrying this logic to an extreme gives us the fashion victim who proudly displays gucci logos on every conceivable surface of his clothes and accessories. (i saw such a clown just yesterday, sad to see.) i think there is an acceptable, even appropriate, level of non-utilitarian 'ornament' if you will, in being well-dressed. the key in terms of classic gentlemen's style could be the intersection of confident self-expression with restrained understatement. (or 'understated restraint'? ) personally i enjoy seeing some 'useless' details that describe some vestigial function or simply create a more aesthetic appearance (ties, anyone? jacket sleeve buttons...button-down collars...etc. the list is long.) /andrew
post #24 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Quote:
...deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
perhaps in the strictest utilitarian sense, yes...however, in questions of style, not only are very few people concerned primarily with stripping away anything non-utilitarian, but the definition of the word itself becomes slippery and (dare i say it) subjective. one man's utility is another man's folly. the gusset, for example: maybe for some it is a symbol. symbols can be seen as having utility - it engenders a confidence in the quality of the shirt, perhaps. or maybe it gives some meaning to the wearer, as a type of secret. (much like wearing boxers of some wild color or pattern.) of course carrying this logic to an extreme gives us the fashion victim who proudly displays gucci logos on every conceivable surface of his clothes and accessories. (i saw such a clown just yesterday, sad to see.) i think there is an acceptable, even appropriate, level of non-utilitarian 'ornament' if you will, in being well-dressed. the key in terms of classic gentlemen's style could be the intersection of confident self-expression with restrained understatement. (or 'understated restraint'?   ) personally i enjoy seeing some 'useless' details that describe some vestigial function or simply create a more aesthetic appearance (ties, anyone? jacket sleeve buttons...button-down collars...etc. the list is long.) /andrew
It is not proved that gusset has no use.... I know you have severals type of gussets, some are just for fun and some plays in the quality of stiching. Check on kabaze website...
post #25 of 36
Thread Starter 
Albert Golberg from Faconnable have got fantastic fabrics but @ 150 euros at least. But collars and cuffs are fused, no split yoke, italian collar.
post #26 of 36
Well, here's my $0.02. - Eton slim-fit "trend" shirts are the best MTM shirts I've found. For some reason, they fit me perfectly, are stylish, have MOP buttons, and are produced from a specially woven fabric that requires zero ironing. Perfect. - For pure price/performance, Janzten is the hands-down winner. - For funkier styles I prefer Paul Smith over Etro. My failed experiments in shirts include: - Literally dozens of shirts I had made by a guy in Boston. Well constructed, but poorly fit. I didn't know any better at the time. - An abortive attempt to try custom at New & Lingwood. The reference shirt they made for me was so far off the mark in terms of fit I just gave up completely. M#4
post #27 of 36
Quote:
As I understand it, the split yoke on RTW shirts is useless as both sides of the yoke are made to the same size. Also, I have to say that the gusset is just as bad.  Shirts no longer receive much stress at the gusset point as they longer have to be put on over the head.  Now a shirt's buttons will tear off long before the side seam rips.  Gussets are the Maginot Line of shirting.
I think you're spot on, with all due respect to the notion that including these traditional elements shows a concern with "traditional quality" on the part of the shirtmaker. Frankly, nice buttons (perhaps handswen), single-needle stitching, and a nice fabric would go further in impressing me than a gussett and a split yoke on a RTW shirt. A RTW Charvet, at least the ones I've seen, do not feature a gussett or a split yoke, but the shirt is exquisitely made. Of course I'm a bit of a Francophile (and Anglophile), so perhaps I'm biased.
post #28 of 36
From my meagre experience: RTW: Attolini, Borrelli (from the boutique, not the ones made for department stores), and Barba. Custom: I have one Kiton custom that I adore, and I've heard wonderful things about Maffeis (of which I have a RTW), and Battistoni (of which I also have a RTW). Wish I would've gotten at least ONE Matuozzo the last time I was in Naples koji
post #29 of 36
Quote:
He said, "Those are Ike Behar. They are the best." and he made no attempt to get any down, knowing I would look at the price and blush. Now here I am decades later and still not able, or willing, to pay that much for a shirt and one day in Marshall's I saw them -- symbols of unattainable grace -- on sale for $22. I bought them. I wear them. I still don't have grace, but if I ever get it I'll be dressed for it.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that jerk of a sales clerk. Ike Behar certainly isn't "the best," but I think they're nothing to raise a nostril at, either. It's a fine RTW shirt, especially at the Marshall's/TJMaxx discount. I own two, one purchased at $25 the other at $16. That's value for the money. Behar ties, by the way, are also an excellent value for ~$16 at Marshall's/TJMaxx.
post #30 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Well, here's my $0.02. - Eton slim-fit "trend" shirts are the best MTM shirts I've found. For some reason, they fit me perfectly, are stylish, have MOP buttons, and are produced from a specially woven fabric that requires zero ironing. Perfect. - For pure price/performance, Janzten is the hands-down winner. - For funkier styles I prefer Paul Smith over Etro. My failed experiments in shirts include: - Literally dozens of shirts I had made by a guy in Boston. Well constructed, but poorly fit. I didn't know any better at the time. - An abortive attempt to try custom at New & Lingwood. The reference shirt they made for me was so far off the mark in terms of fit I just gave up completely. M#4
An abortive attempt to try custom at New & Lingwood. The reference shirt they made for me was so far off the mark in terms of fit I just gave up completely. I had the same with liste rouge..... And with another "tailor". Whats why I were so happy to find H&K.
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