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Leather vs. Rubber soles. - Page 3

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post

I assume he's just asking for details.  If he wasn't, I am.

E.g., what kind of oil? What happens after it's "dipped and treated"? 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Ac

Exactly. I was trying to get some more details on how this works. I know Nick V. is a respected expert on shoes (and can probably give more of an unvarnished opinion on these things than the shoe companies themselves) and since he provided some novel information that I wasn't familiar with, I was wondering if he might be able to expand on it.

Not a problem if there aren't a lot of exact details available, but it seemed like an interesting nugget and I might buy a pair of shoes that have been so treated at some point if I knew a bit more.
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


How about if you call AE and ask them if the chemical used in their Butyl sole is heavily oil based and dipped. While you're at it ask them what's in the oil. If I'm wrong I would be happy to acknowledge it.


No need, I think.  Unless the AE quote was misusing the terms, this seems to be what they're talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_rubber

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

How about if you call AE and ask them if the chemical used in their Butyl sole is heavily oil based and dipped. While you're at it ask them what's in the oil. If I'm wrong I would be happy to acknowledge it.

You're not wrong about butyl dipped outsoling. But it will suffocate the leather and in my...admittedly, limited-because-I-didn't-like-it-from-the-minute-I-saw-and-handled-it...experience,it will also cause the leather to wear away more quickly.

FWIW, rubber outsoles, synthetic insoles, butyl dipped outsoles and corrected grain leather are all of a piece. If one won't inhibit the leather, the shoe from breathing none of them will.

And shoemakers have been wrong for centuries.
post #34 of 41

 

Funny story told to me by a British Horse Society riding instructor at a stable I used to go to.  She had a beginning student who had purchased her first pair of brand new riding boots, and the instructor gave her the usual advice:  treat them with mink oil and let them sit overnight before doing anything else to them.  She didn’t, however, think to tell the student not to do this to the sole.

 

It was some time before the student was able to keep her boot in the stirrups.

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

 

post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


You're not wrong about butyl dipped outsoling. [...]

 

For the record, I never questioned that.  And I wasn't questioning anyone's expertise.

 

I was just puzzled by the description of the stuff as "oil."

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post


No need, I think.  Unless the AE quote was misusing the terms, this seems to be what they're talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_rubber

Cheers,

Ac

I refer to your post #30 in this thread:
"Both our Double Oak Leather Sole and Double Butyl Leather Sole feature the same thickness, support and durability of a leather sole"
Does it not say leather?
post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


I refer to your post #30 in this thread:
"Both our Double Oak Leather Sole and Double Butyl Leather Sole feature the same thickness, support and durability of a leather sole"
Does it not say leather?

 

Huh?  I'm not questioning that it's applied to leather.  I'm just questioning whether it's oil.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Here's the bit in the AE quote prompted the Wiki link:

 

"[...] Butyl, a chemical in which some rubbers are derived; butyl rubber is known for its leak-proof qualities [...]"

 

Apparently I'm not being clear.  Nowhere in the AE text is the word "oil" used. 

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post

For the record, I never questioned that.  And I wasn't questioning anyone's expertise.

I was just puzzled by the description of the stuff as "oil."

Cheers,

Ac

Never figured you were. No worries.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

Exactly. I was trying to get some more details on how this works. I know Nick V. is a respected expert on shoes (and can probably give more of an unvarnished opinion on these things than the shoe companies themselves) and since he provided some novel information that I wasn't familiar with, I was wondering if he might be able to expand on it.

Not a problem if there aren't a lot of exact details available, but it seemed like an interesting nugget and I might buy a pair of shoes that have been so treated at some point if I knew a bit more.

Forgive me but, I don't have details on this. Please understand that I have a vast amount of suppliers, customers and, products to deal with. Therefore I am the first to admit that I am not nearly as apt to define details as say DW. I can tell you though my eyes and ears are on what my customers demand of me. That's my primary focus. Often they ask me for products that are no longer available here in the U.S. But, I know of them from sometimes decades ago when they were. In those cases I source to Europe. For instance, at one time a shoe repair operation could get oil dipped soles from almost any shoe repair supplier in the U.S. Now bc of customers asking for them I think I'm the only s.r. company that offers them. I wouldn't offer a product that was not time tested over years and mostly decades. Accordingly, I would not offer a product that I would not use on my own footwear. Also, there are products that customers ask me for that I have access to but
refuse to bring in. An example....customers often ask me for flush mounted heel plates. They are called segs. I find (among other things) they lend to a very "hard" heel strike and are slippery.
Again, I wouldn't put them on my own footwear so, I wouldn't put them on yours.

I realize that I didn't answer your question directly. Just wanted to give you more of an insight of my priorities.
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Forgive me but, I don't have details on this. Please understand that I have a vast amount of suppliers, customers and, products to deal with. Therefore I am the first to admit that I am not nearly as apt to define details as say DW. I can tell you though my eyes and ears are on what my customers demand of me. That's my primary focus. Often they ask me for products that are no longer available here in the U.S. But, I know of them from sometimes decades ago when they were. In those cases I source to Europe. For instance, at one time a shoe repair operation could get oil dipped soles from almost any shoe repair supplier in the U.S. Now bc of customers asking for them I think I'm the only s.r. company that offers them. I wouldn't offer a product that was not time tested over years and mostly decades. Accordingly, I would not offer a product that I would not use on my own footwear. Also, there are products that customers ask me for that I have access to but
refuse to bring in. An example....customers often ask me for flush mounted heel plates. They are called segs. I find (among other things) they lend to a very "hard" heel strike and are slippery.
Again, I wouldn't put them on my own footwear so, I wouldn't put them on yours.

I realize that I didn't answer your question directly. Just wanted to give you more of an insight of my priorities.

Much appreciated. Thank you.
post #41 of 41
Nick, no doubt you are busy doing the very things that put you in an exceptional position to discuss - in a current context - all manner of shoes related issues. Whenever you can find the time to share with us here, it is greatly appreciated.
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