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post #5341 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I'm certain you first wrote "As a cis male who loves pink" then thought better of it. #lockerroomtalk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

But you want to talk about a pink tax, I submit the tens if not hundreds of thousands I've spent in my life on trying to get the pink shog[1].gifcensored.gif

See, ed was willing to go there.
post #5342 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

If items such as soap, razors, etc. are truly fungible why not just buy the cheaper stuff? If there's a material difference then it's not an A to A
Why not just make all personal hygiene products untaxed?

Also, if razors, soaps, etc. are truly fungible why not just buy the cheaper stuff?

They're truly fungible (most of them at least) but that's not the point (sure markets are segmented, often using cosmetic distinctions that are ultimately meaningless, everyone knows that). Companies seem to think they can charge more for certain items when marketing them to women, isn't the interesting question to find out why? I must say that when it comes to certain products my assumption would be that the ones targeted at men are more expensive (moisturizers and all that crap) but I never investigated the issue. Then you have more local tax situations...
post #5343 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

They're truly fungible (most of them at least) but that's not the point (sure markets are segmented, often using cosmetic distinctions that are ultimately meaningless, everyone knows that). Companies seem to think they can charge more for certain items when marketing them to women, isn't the interesting question to find out why? I must say that when it comes to certain products my assumption would be that the ones targeted at men are more expensive (moisturizers and all that crap) but I never investigated the issue. Then you have more local tax situations...

Well, as much as some folks wish there was no difference in gender preferences, expectations, etc. there actually are. Most men feel it's almost unmanly to even think about things like shampoo let alone try to seek out premium ones, etc. Women, OTOH, have a large group looking for that special shampoo ingredient, scent, etc. Basically one market is more apt to want to spend more on this particular product.

Craft beer is the "blue tax" for the average guy.
post #5344 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Well, as much as some folks wish there was no difference in gender preferences, expectations, etc. there actually are. Most men feel it's almost unmanly to even think about things like shampoo let alone try to seek out premium ones, etc. Women, OTOH, have a large group looking for that special shampoo ingredient, scent, etc. Basically one market is more apt to want to spend more on this particular product.

Craft beer is the "blue tax" for the average guy.

1) I'm not sure I agree with your explanation, especially since men's cosmetics are a rising market but much smaller than the female one. Wouldn't the smaller market lead to higher prices. TBH I wouldn't try to guess why the prices are higher for equivalent products, just ask the question.
2) Note that I said equivalent. We're not talking about a fancier product (say some generic dept store brand against Shiseido or whatever).
3) Are there beers marketed at women that are equivalent with a lower pricepoint, otherwise your example is meaningless.
post #5345 of 5616
I know there are some things -- like pink razors, shampoo, deodorant, or Rogaine -- marketed to both genders that are essentially the same, yet sometimes cost more for women. The advertising is vague, promising goods that are *made for a woman's needs*, curves, body, etc. -- some extra element suggesting a heightened focus on comfort or whatever. IME, some women buy into this and buy the pink thingie; others would just find it odd to buy a masculine-colored product; others suck it up and pay because the cheaper men's stuff has a masculine scent. Most just don't think about it.

I remember a Jezebel article or comments section detailing 'men's' products (like three-blade razors) women could purchase to save money.

I guess the obvious answer is that companies charge more for certain things because they can...
post #5346 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

1) I'm not sure I agree with your explanation, especially since men's cosmetics are a rising market but much smaller than the female one. Wouldn't the smaller market lead to higher prices. TBH I wouldn't try to guess why the prices are higher for equivalent products, just ask the question.
2) Note that I said equivalent. We're not talking about a fancier product (say some generic dept store brand against Shiseido or whatever).
3) Are there beers marketed at women that are equivalent with a lower pricepoint, otherwise your example is meaningless.


I'm not up on the pricing of cosmetics for me so really can't answer that. Men get expensive craft beer marketed to them whereas women get really cheap wine marketed to them like http://www.menageatroiswines.com/california-red-wine#
Quote:
Wine Confessions
We promise you a luscious love affair. We’ll tease you with our bold blackberry, and raspberry nature. Add pink to your cheeks with our sassy red fruits. All while indulging you with our rich splendiferous full-bodied flavors and firm tannins. We’ll even flirt with any carnivore lover. Sizzling meat, or savory chicken anyone? If you’ve never tried a Ménage à Trois, let us be your first.

Seriously been at parties where affluent women of a certain age, and non-discriminating palate of course, were obviously titillated to ask for this wine by name. No shit here; this marketing really works.
post #5347 of 5616
Women use rogaine? Isn't it for baldies? I mean some old ladies start to go bald but that is rather marginal. I could make a joke about the 70s coming back and the need to grow a bush quick but that would be #lockerroomtalk.
post #5348 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


3) Are there beers marketed at women that are equivalent with a lower pricepoint, otherwise your example is meaningless.
We need kwilk for this one, but my general sense as a consumer is that the answer here is "not exactly as you've phrased it, but sort of". There are people who don't care enough about the actual or perceived qualities of craft beer to pay a premium for them. These are obviously the target market segment. It's a segment that's heavily male.
Then there's the rest of the beer-drinking world (which I suspect is also more male than female, but perhaps less starkly so). The non-craft (cheaper) beers are marketed at them.
post #5349 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Women use rogaine? Isn't it for baldies? I mean some old ladies start to go bald but that is rather marginal. I could make a joke about the 70s coming back and the need to grow a bush quick but that would be #lockerroomtalk.

A lot of women have thinning hair. I rub the foamy stuff into my temples occasionally to stall the inevitable slide into Moonlighting-era Bruce Willis, and have had to buy the feminine version on occasion. Can't remember whether it cost more.
post #5350 of 5616
Related to StyleForum, there have been a bunch of complaints circling around about how fashion designers don't market clothes for average (read: overweight) women. Seems odd to me that if there's really demand, nobody has filled it. Capitalists leaving money on the table? Seems like there's some more complicated dynamics going on than "they're just not available." Seems likely that there's some self-reinforcing patterns, like the desirable brands are the ones worn by skinny women.
post #5351 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Related to StyleForum, there have been a bunch of complaints circling around about how fashion designers don't market clothes for average (read: overweight) women. Seems odd to me that if there's really demand, nobody has filled it. Capitalists leaving money on the table? Seems like there's some more complicated dynamics going on than "they're just not available." Seems likely that there's some self-reinforcing patterns, like the desirable brands are the ones worn by skinny women.

I've thought about this one before. I figure there's some calculus going on between lower numbers at high margin and higher numbers at lower margin and which is the most profitable. If the fatties can shop in the same store, and wear the exact same clothes as the beautiful people, the beautiful people might suddenly be willing to pay less for these products and the whole purchase experience.

Just a stab here.
post #5352 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Related to StyleForum, there have been a bunch of complaints circling around about how fashion designers don't market clothes for average (read: overweight) women. Seems odd to me that if there's really demand, nobody has filled it. Capitalists leaving money on the table? Seems like there's some more complicated dynamics going on than "they're just not available." Seems likely that there's some self-reinforcing patterns, like the desirable brands are the ones worn by skinny women.

Depends on what you mean by "market". Obviously, "average" women are getting their clothes somewhere. But my total guess is that the conventional thinking says you can't "market" (in the sense of advertise or promote) based on that (the same way none of the dudes on this site buy jeans in a size that bears any relationship to their actual waist measurements) because you'll alienate potential customers by describing them, explicitly, or implicitly, in ways that they don't like to think of themselves.

Years ago I had a female housemate who really wanted to be a model. She went on some auditions basically got feedback that she'd have better luck as a model/actor for commercials selling product other than clothing, make-up, etc. I think the take-away line was something like "Women like you and think you're attractive, but you're not the woman at the party that they wish they looked like."
post #5353 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Related to StyleForum, there have been a bunch of complaints circling around about how fashion designers don't market clothes for average (read: overweight) women. Seems odd to me that if there's really demand, nobody has filled it. Capitalists leaving money on the table? Seems like there's some more complicated dynamics going on than "they're just not available." Seems likely that there's some self-reinforcing patterns, like the desirable brands are the ones worn by skinny women.

Possibly, an issue might be that "average" size has gone up a lot, for both men and women. I was watching a documentary on the NYC garment district, one of the people interviewed was talking about how when they fitted Marilyn Monroe, Rita Heyworth etc, those women were size 10-12's back then, he mentioned that with today's sizing convention, they would be 6-8's. I wouldn't be surprised if a size 12 in women's today is 3-4 sizes bigger than what it was 40-50 years ago. I think most "normal" stores go up to 14, maybe 16 for womens sizes. You see an offshoot of this in mens clothing. Depending on the brand, a size 34 waist in a man's pants could measure anywhere from 34-37 inches. So if your waist size is 37-38 inches, you could fit into a size 34 and not feel fat.
post #5354 of 5616
Fashion brands have three types of customers to consider:

  1. The narrative client: This is the one you see on the runway and in ads, with Hermès (for men) that would be some tall, white dude with long hair and a beard who is a virile world-traveling adventurer with some white linen pants and a nice leather bag over his shoulder. No one in their right mind believes this client actually exist. Fantasy to fuel your brand narrative.
  2. The client to aspire to: The one people think of as purchasing the brand and that is the target of their aspirations. For Hermès this is distinguished European upper classes with large cultural capital. Some of these people buy the brand but this is marginal and pleasing them is a hard equilibrium to manage (see Burberry)
  3. The real client: The people that bring you your fukkin money cause they actually buy the brand. For Hermès this is Chinese, Russian and Middle-Eastern new money who wonder if that croc jacket couldn't be improved by a big gold "H" on the back.

Fashion brands do make large sizes, they just don't use large sizes for cat 1-2.
post #5355 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I'm not up on the pricing of cosmetics for me so really can't answer that. Men get expensive craft beer marketed to them whereas women get really cheap wine marketed to them like http://www.menageatroiswines.com/california-red-wine#
Seriously been at parties where affluent women of a certain age, and non-discriminating palate of course, were obviously titillated to ask for this wine by name. No shit here; this marketing really works.

That is sad considering the current quality of American wine. Well it is pinot and cab country but some of the stuff is really good.
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