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post #5026 of 5616
Intoxication increases for a significant amount of time after drinking, as it takes time for alcohol to be absorbed into the blood. Drowsiness, which can also contribute to losing consciousness, also increases as the night wears on (obviously). Likewise with assuming a resting body position.

The fact that she appeared to be unconscious when they first saw her doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't conscious moments before, as the defendant claimed.
post #5027 of 5616
A list of male privileges (for those of you who were wondering.)


https://xyfeminist.wordpress.com/the-male-privilege-list/
post #5028 of 5616
How many conscious girls want to get finger banged on the floor while being next to a smelly dumpster? Was she that horny? Was this a fantasy of hers?
post #5029 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

A list of male privileges (for those of you who were wondering.)


https://xyfeminist.wordpress.com/the-male-privilege-list/
I feel like I need to know why the banner is the Twilight kids along with a velociraptor.
post #5030 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

For example (oversimplifying again, but not unfairly I believe): if you are at a hipster party and get so drunk on artisan cocktails that you and your ironic beard ride off on somebody else's fixie thinking it's your own, you may be guilty of being a pretentious asshole but you're not guilty of theft. I'm pretty sure this would be the result in most if not all U.S. jurisdictions.

Not where I'm from. Mistake is a defense to larceny, but if you even suggested that your drinking contributed to it, the prosecutor would get an instruction warning the jury that voluntary intoxication is not a defense. The instruction (at least, the usual one) seems to have originally been about judgment rather than perception of fact, but they'd get it nonetheless.
post #5031 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Not where I'm from. Mistake is a defense to larceny, but if you even suggested that your drinking contributed to it, the prosecutor would get an instruction warning the jury that voluntary intoxication is not a defense. The instruction (at least, the usual one) seems to have originally been about judgment rather than perception of fact, but they'd get it nonetheless.
Point taken, but I'm not sure the fact that the Court would give a potentially confusing, poorly phrased instruction changes the general point. Based on what you've said, our drunk friend would in fact be innocent of the crime of theft under the law of your state if he truly believed he was taking his own bike. Whether the judge or the jury would screw up the application of the law to the facts is slightly different question.
post #5032 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper007 View Post

I am sorry, but his case is pretty clear cut. 2 random people were biking and saw a dude molesting a clearly unconscious girl behind a dumpster. They immediately called the police and restrained the dude until the police arrived. The girl remained unconscious for the next 3 hours and woke up in the hospital. This is not a case driven by a women who wakes up the next day and figured she doesn't do random hookups so she must have been raped, the guy was caught in the act and there can be no doubt that consent couldn't have been given since the girl was clearly unconscious and remained so for a few hours after being picked up and cared for by police and medical personnel.

I also have been very uncomfortable with the way feminists have moved the goal post on rape and how colleges have been handling some of these situation, but in this case, I totally get the outrage, the guy deserves way more than 6 months of jail.

Are these the actual facts of the case? Not a snarky question, legit wondering.
post #5033 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post


The fact that she appeared to be unconscious when they first saw her doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't conscious moments before, as the defendant claimed.

So what? Do you think right before she passed out she said "please continue to finger bang me after I go to sleep! I really love that!"

And if you're so drunk that you don't notice someone falling asleep while you penetrate them, maybe you shouldn't be penetrating anybody, especially some chick you barely know.
post #5034 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Are these the actual facts of the case? Not a snarky question, legit wondering.

The factual recitation is consistent with the accounts I've read for what that's worth, noting that what I've read has all just been press stories.
post #5035 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Are these the actual facts of the case? Not a snarky question, legit wondering.

As far as I am aware, yes. But as lawyerdad said, it's all based on news stories (FYI, I work in finance and lean conservative so I don't read Jezebel, Gawker, the NYT , Slate and all that thrash)

And the outrage isn't directly solely at the sentence itself, but also to the fact that the judge clearly empathized way more than he should with the accused. The justifications he gave for the light sentence are cringe worthy especially considering the judge was Stanford's lacrosse captain (and I don't want to paint all lax players with a broad stroke, but it's not unreasonable to assume that generally speaking, that crowd has a much higher tolerance for taking advantage of drunken girls than the average person).
post #5036 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Point taken, but I'm not sure the fact that the Court would give a potentially confusing, poorly phrased instruction changes the general point. Based on what you've said, our drunk friend would in fact be innocent of the crime of theft under the law of your state if he truly believed he was taking his own bike. Whether the judge or the jury would screw up the application of the law to the facts is slightly different question.

I may not have articulated the extent of it -- the judge wouldn't let you put on evidence of voluntary intoxication in the first place.

The law was changed in the 70s (IIRC) to remove voluntary intoxication as a defense. I personally don't agree with the instruction (at least, not in cases like your hypothetical), so maybe I'm not giving it a fair construction as far as what it was intended to say. A layman would probably find it pretty unambiguous. I'd be more specific but I don't want to start saying things over the internet that could be construed as legal advice.
post #5037 of 5616
At what point is a woman deemed not to have capacity for consent? The legal driving limit? If that's the case probably every guy reading this has "raped" at least one woman.

Note: observation has nothing to do with the case under discussion, but seriously, who here can say they've not had sex with a woman that's had two drinks?
post #5038 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

At what point is a woman deemed not to have capacity for consent? The legal driving limit? If that's the case probably every guy reading this has "raped" at least one woman.

Note: observation has nothing to do with the case under discussion, but seriously, who here can say they've not had sex with a woman that's had two drinks?
Unless you limit the question to people who have had sex with women, you are going to get more responses than you were looking for.
post #5039 of 5616
So no clear answers? When is a woman too drunk to give consent?
post #5040 of 5616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So no clear answers? When is a woman too drunk to give consent?

Honestly, this is a very worthwhile question. Particularly because alcohol is know to reduce inhibition and is specifically imbibed for that reason. So if a person want to reduce their inhibitions, does so, how much can they argue 'but, but, my defenses were down" when that was the exact result they were going when they were still in fullpossession of their facilities.

When I was a kid, we called this a "Coyote date" because when you woke up, you'd rather chew your arm off them risk disturbing her sleep as you slunk out the door and made your shameful escape.
Edited by NorCal - 6/9/16 at 5:52pm
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