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I need feminism because tumblr - Page 209

post #3121 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post


Oh, so you're a doctor now?

You seem to be a reasonably intelligent guy, E, so I'm going to assume you understand why this is such a silly question.
post #3122 of 5582

I'm just saying that characterizing transgender people as "identifying" as male or female is misleading. It's no different than insisting that being gay is a choice. It's just not the case. 

 

Deciding to pretend to be black on the other hand is a farce. 

post #3123 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I'm just saying that characterizing transgender people as "identifying" as male or female is misleading. It's no different than insisting that being gay is a choice.

Deciding to pretend to be black on the other hand is a farce. 

Yes, we've established that you believe this, but what you have yet to explain is why.
post #3124 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post


Yes, we've established that you believe this, but what you have yet to explain is why.

2 Biological-based theories

 

I get it, Wikipedia...I don't feel like getting on Ebsco and pulling up studies for you. 

post #3125 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Yes, we've established that you believe this, but what you have yet to explain is why.
2 Biological-based theories

I get it, Wikipedia...I don't feel like getting on Ebsco and pulling up studies for you. 

Is that the one right after
Psychological and behavioral theories ?
post #3126 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

I'm just saying that characterizing transgender people as "identifying" as male or female is misleading. It's no different than insisting that being gay is a choice. It's just not the case. 

Deciding to pretend to be black on the other hand is a farce. 

Let me take a stab in the dark you are cis straight white and male am I correct?
post #3127 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post


Is that the one right after
Psychological and behavioral theories ?


You mean the section that is all antiquated philosophizing with no scientific evidence? Yeah, okay. 

post #3128 of 5582
Pretty sure us civilians should cut each other some slack when discussing highly technical issues that are not currently black or white (SWIDT?). I say this as only a couple SF members actually have enough of an in depth background to really digest and assess the transgender-biological issue, which doesn't seem completely settled, so high horses are probably not good seats from which most of us should cast aspersions and make pronouncements. This means comparing two highly controversial and high profile current events, Jenner and Doz-her-name, is really not that far fetched and could well be done from a place of reasonableness and sincere inquiry.
post #3129 of 5582
Yes, what Piob said. It's all well and good to have a position here, but it's not a settled case. Asking questions about it should not be dismissed or met with sanctimony (nor is the asking of such questions tantamount to some sort of hate or bigotry).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

2 Biological-based theories

I get it, Wikipedia...I don't feel like getting on Ebsco and pulling up studies for you. 

So, the presence of correlated (not established causal) brain differences is enough for you to accept gender identity as unique among trans and a justification for gender reassignment surgery (rather than non-physically-invasive treatment)?

Moreover, your position is that the brain trumps chromosomes?
post #3130 of 5582
I was always taught that chromosomes were the definitive way to define gender. I believe that is what the Olympics use too.
post #3131 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Is that the one right after
Psychological and behavioral theories ?


You mean the section that is all antiquated philosophizing with no scientific evidence? Yeah, okay. 

No I mean the section that is just before the section that contains a total of two statistically underpowered studies. You're going to have t do better than that before you can claim to know "that I'm just saying that characterizing transgender people as "identifying" as male or female is misleading". And even if the evidence piles up supporting those studies it won't support your claim, it will not make men women and women men, it will simply mean that some men and women have a genetic disorder that makes them think they are women and men respectively.

Trying to suggest that one of the best male decathletes in history has an androgen receptor deficiency is a stretch.
post #3132 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I was always taught that chromosomes were the definitive way to define gender. I believe that is what the Olympics use too.

They define sex. Gender is, it is argued, is the social construct. So, in this paradigm, sex = biological male/female, gender = social male/female. In addition, and as a result of this framing, gender is presented as mutable, while sex is not.

This is also the basis of the cis/trans nomenclature. If you're cis, your gender matches your sex; if you're trans, it doesn't.
post #3133 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I was always taught that chromosomes were the definitive way to define gender. I believe that is what the Olympics use too.

They define sex. Gender is, it is argued, is the social construct. In this paradigm, gender is mutable, sex is not.

So if you're cis, your gender matches your sex. If you're trans, it doesn't.

gender
noun gen·der \ˈjen-dər\
: the state of being male or female.

male
noun \ˈmāl\
: a man or a boy : a male person

female
adjective fe·male \ˈfē-ˌmāl\
: of or relating to the sex that can produce young or lay eggs

: characteristic of girls or women

: having members who are all girls or women
post #3134 of 5582

In any case, I normally don't like Matt Lauer but he's the perfect person to interview this crazy lady. Matt Lauer doesn't give a fuck. 

 

http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/rachel-dolezal-and-complicated-history-passing/

post #3135 of 5582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

gender
noun gen·der \ˈjen-dər\
: the state of being male or female.

male
noun \ˈmāl\
: a man or a boy : a male person

female
adjective fe·male \ˈfē-ˌmāl\
: of or relating to the sex that can produce young or lay eggs

: characteristic of girls or women

: having members who are all girls or women

I made some clarity edits, but you quoted me before I could get them entered.

Regardless, I agree with you generally in this conversation; I was trying to elucidate for BC why, in this context, the words aren't viewed as interchangeable.
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