How We Used to Dress

comrade · Jul 14, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/13/n...t-but-city-still-thunders.html?pagewanted=all

This photo from 1929 Manhattan is not of the Savile Row-clad, but a
random group of American men in Times Square. It illustrates the decline
in standards of dress particularly in the last 20-30 years.

David Copeland · Jul 14, 2013

My boss insists that all men and women dress in business attire every day except Friday (which is casual). The women are required to wear either a dress or skirt (no slacks).

Funny thing happened as the newcomers got used to it - - - they felt and performed better, and began to look forward to a business attire every day.

In the meantime, our colleagues at other offices who have gone with the flow of more casual have suffered in too many ways to mention.

All my best,

David

irgendwas · Jul 14, 2013

David Copeland said:
My boss insists that all men and women dress in business attire every day except Friday (which is casual). The women are required to wear either a dress or skirt (no slacks).

If you support traditional business attire, casual fridays can be considered a hypocrisy.
Additionally, I think the reason why women aren't allowed to wear trousers can only be conservativism with a sexist undertone (distinct from wanting one's staff to look professional). After all, long trousers (if they aren't especially slim) are more modest than a skirt, assuming the skirt isn't ankle-length or longer. While a skirt is more traditional for women's business attire than trousers, I don't understand why women wearing a skirt should look more professional than those wearing trousers.

David Copeland · Jul 15, 2013

irgendwas said:
If you support traditional business attire, casual fridays can be considered a hypocrisy.
Additionally, I think the reason why women aren't allowed to wear trousers can only be conservativism with a sexist undertone (distinct from wanting one's staff to look professional). After all, long trousers (if they aren't especially slim) are more modest than a skirt, assuming the skirt isn't ankle-length or longer. While a skirt is more traditional for women's business attire than trousers, I don't understand why women wearing a skirt should look more professional than those wearing trousers.

My earlier post reflected what my employer's policy was . . . not mine.

It also reflected the results of the policy, which proved to be better for both the men and the women who chose to abide by the policy.

msulinski · Jul 15, 2013

Quote:
Yeah I can't see a good reason for this other than the boss likes ogling the women. This would never fly in a larger company. I think the employer is opening himself up to a potential lawsuit.

As for the employees feeling better due to the dress code, I assume the women would feel just as good with the option of pant suits or skirts.

aravenel · Jul 15, 2013

Ha, yeah, that is 100% a lawsuit waiting to happen. That guy is a chump.

Off My Rack · Jul 15, 2013

There are actually some federal court judges that have that same policy...

archibaldleach · Jul 15, 2013

irgendwas said:
If you support traditional business attire, casual fridays can be considered a hypocrisy.
Additionally, I think the reason why women aren't allowed to wear trousers can only be conservativism with a sexist undertone (distinct from wanting one's staff to look professional). After all, long trousers (if they aren't especially slim) are more modest than a skirt, assuming the skirt isn't ankle-length or longer. While a skirt is more traditional for women's business attire than trousers, I don't understand why women wearing a skirt should look more professional than those wearing trousers.

Historically, pants on women were considered immodest and skirts and dresses considered more modest (though some of this may have due to said sexist undertones). I'm not trying to suggest that the policy is defensible and think it's kind of silly to tell women they can't wear pants, but I'm not so sure that an appropriate length skirt suit or dress is necessarily less modest than an equivalent pant suit or that long trousers are more modest than a skirt.

DocHolliday · Jul 15, 2013

It was a turning point on Mad Men this season when Peggy donned a pant suit.

Calder · Jul 15, 2013

Regarding the article linked by OP, the only thing that photo tells you really is that hats were much more prevalent in 1929. Also, the photo was probably taken in the colder half of the year, what with everyone wearing overcoats.

While I agree that a well chosen hat and overcoat looks great, most people just don't do hats anymore.

On the subject of ladieswear, there are some women who look better in skirts, some who look better in trousers, and some who can wear either. The problem here is that most women (like most men) do not know how to dress well, and that concepts of feminism take precedence over actually looking good in some peoples imagination.

Anthony Jordan · Jul 15, 2013

It's an attractive picture for the sartorial world it suggests; I do regret the decline of the hat.

GBR · Jul 15, 2013

David Copeland said:
My boss insists that all men and women dress in business attire every day except Friday (which is casual). The women are required to wear either a dress or skirt (no slacks). Funny thing happened as the newcomers got used to it - - - they felt and performed better, and began to look forward to a business attire every day. In the meantime, our colleagues at other offices who have gone with the flow of more casual have suffered in too many ways to mention. All my best, David

You would struggle to enforce a 'no trousers' rule for women in the UK. Likely to be illegal.

msulinski · Jul 15, 2013

Quote:
I suspect you would have difficulty in the US as well. It is easier to get away with in small companies where there is no HR department to complain to. In these situations, people very often just go with the flow so that they don't get fired.

VinnyMac · Jul 15, 2013

David Copeland said:
My boss insists that all men and women dress in business attire every day except Friday (which is casual). The women are required to wear either a dress or skirt (no slacks).

Funny thing happened as the newcomers got used to it - - - they felt and performed better, and began to look forward to a business attire every day.

In the meantime, our colleagues at other offices who have gone with the flow of more casual have suffered in too many ways to mention.

All my best,

David

I smell bullshxt with a hint of trolling...nice narrative though.

comrade · Jul 15, 2013

Calder said:
Regarding the article linked by OP, the only thing that photo tells you really is that hats were much more prevalent in 1929. Also, the photo was probably taken in the colder half of the year, what with everyone wearing overcoats.

While I agree that a well chosen hat and overcoat looks great, most people just don't do hats anymore.

On the subject of ladieswear, there are some women who look better in skirts, some who look better in trousers, and some who can wear either. The problem here is that most women (like most men) do not know how to dress well, and that concepts of feminism take precedence over actually looking good in some peoples imagination.

Yeah. But the range of overcoats are the now classical style swooned over in numerous menswear blogs, including
Style Forum. No thinsulaite, down or crappy raincoats with zip-in lining in view. They didn't exist yet .
Most of those coats are in classical styles that are not routinely available at non-bespoke prices except from a few retailers-
O'Connells come to mind:

http://www.oconnellsclothing.com/home.php?cat=263

How We Used to Dress

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