or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Leather Quality and Properties - Page 64

post #946 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

That's true but it is an ideal that the best of us aim for...and should, don't you think?

Of course, to that I fully agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

And that's not true...did I mention "personal adornment"? I think I did.

Terribly sorry, bad reading on my part; my argument falls to pieces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

cheers.gif

cheers.gif

However, I'm going to refrain from further discussion on the topic, I think we both know that we have different views as a result of difference in knowledge and/or other factors - I am also getting seriously owned; I feel like a Welterweight that have been in the ring with a Heavyweight.
post #947 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbfn View Post

Of course, to that I fully agree.
Terribly sorry, bad reading on my part; my argument falls to pieces.
cheers.gif

However, I'm going to refrain from further discussion on the topic, I think we both know that we have different views as a result of difference in knowledge and/or other factors - I am also getting seriously owned; I feel like a Welterweight that have been in the ring with a Heavyweight.

Oh baloney! I've enjoyed talking with you. All I require for a "rational," civilized discussion is openmindedness and the same respect you would wish for yourself...which you've demonstrated in spades. I don't require agreement.
post #948 of 1197
Haha, it certainly was hyperbolizing. I have enjoyed talking with you as well.
post #949 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post


I suppose I would take a slightly 'softer' view of people who disagree with a knowledgeable one. Like you, I am considered  an expert in my own field. I hope I would never stop a student - at any level - from expressing opinions, arguing with received knowledge and generally putting forward a view that hadn't occurred to me, or one that I didn't particularly agree with. Argument between experts is also important. I guess that we remain students all of our lives.This thread is a form of education for a lot of people like me. I hope there is room for everyone and that the thread remains inclusive. 



<</div>

 



That all stands very much to your credit Munky. Cheers.
post #950 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Thank you for that, DWFII, it clarified you position very well.

I suppose I would take a slightly 'softer' view of people who disagree with a knowledgeable one. Like you, I am considered  an expert in my own field. I hope I would never stop a student - at any level - from expressing opinions, arguing with received knowledge and generally putting forward a view that hadn't occurred to me, or one that I didn't particularly agree with. Argument between experts is also important. I guess that we remain students all of our lives.This thread is a form of education for a lot of people like me. I hope there is room for everyone and that the thread remains inclusive. 

I am sorry about putting your quotes in inverted commas; I haven't yet worked out how to take chunks out of the text in order to put them in context! Some expert!

Best wishes, Munky. 

Interesting....I just completed an interview this morning with Antonio De Matteis.
My final question to him was "if you were to select special people for a dinner conversation, who would they be"?
His response..."Anybody I can learn from".
Antonio is the CEO of a family run business. The company is Kiton.
post #951 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Thank you for that, DWFII, it clarified you position very well.

I suppose I would take a slightly 'softer' view of people who disagree with a knowledgeable one. Like you, I am considered  an expert in my own field. I hope I would never stop a student - at any level - from expressing opinions, arguing with received knowledge and generally putting forward a view that hadn't occurred to me, or one that I didn't particularly agree with. Argument between experts is also important. I guess that we remain students all of our lives.This thread is a form of education for a lot of people like me. I hope there is room for everyone and that the thread remains inclusive. 

I am sorry about putting your quotes in inverted commas; I haven't yet worked out how to take chunks out of the text in order to put them in context! Some expert!

Best wishes, Munky. 

Munky,

I take students on all the time--just finished with one, got another coming in Jan--have done for the past 25 years. I've been a student most of my life. I've literally sat at the knee of my mentors. To do that you have to sublimate your own ego and put aside your preconceptions.

That said, I was there to learn, not dispute. I asked question aplenty but I never argued.

I encourage questions--honest, sincere, respectful questions. And here on StyleForum, at least, I don't charge a nickle for the knowledge it has taken me years to acquire, despite the fact that it does take a fair amount of my time and energy.

On the other hand, I don't have much truck or patience for uninformed...and more importantly, unfocused...argument--nearly always argument for the sake of argument, in my experience, and almost always by people who aren't looking to learn, or don't think they need to learn.

My remarks are not written in stone. Yes, you could make the case that I am an expert in my field. Perhaps, I've earned that accolade. But there are other ways to do things...even within the definitions of Traditional shoemaking as the Trade sees it. (Although such differences are pretty minor.)

As I said, in another post (and many times before) I don't require agreement or Facebook Likes. Just a sincere good will.

I post about shoemaking. That's one of the few subjects I am an expert in. I don't post about watches, or suits or colour coordination of ties and pocket squares...or even art history. There are better people, more experienced people, who know far more than I do about such subjects. I'd be stealing their thunder and disrespecting them if I tried to tell them what I think and what is wrong with their perspectives. And all the more so when such gratuitous commentary springs from ignorance and speculation.

As we've seen many times on this forum, some people have no problem with that--with telling anyone and everyone how much they know about anything and everything (when in reality they "know nothing, Jon Snow"). Respect isn't in it. Not even ordinary civil respect.

It reminds me of a scene in Band of Brothers when Capt. Sobel thinks he can weasel past Major Winters without saluting. Winters brings him up short with the comment that "We salute the rank, Captain Sobel, not the man."

The knowledge and experience is valuable in its own right and unimpeachable by those who have never experienced it.

--
Edited by DWFII - 12/11/13 at 9:06am
post #952 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


Interesting....I just completed an interview this morning with Antonio De Matteis.
My final question to him was "if you were to select special people for a dinner conversation, who would they be"?
His response..."Anybody I can learn from".
Antonio is the CEO of a family run business. The company is Kiton.


Wise words indeed.

post #953 of 1197

Does shoe leather expand and contract with differences in temperature?  I have a pair of shoes that pinch very slightly. When the weather is warm or when I have been wearing them for some time, they seem much more comfortable. When the weather is cold (and presumably making it impossible for my feet to worm up) they feel just as they did before I put them on that day. Comfortable in the warm and pinching in the cold. 

 

If this is the case, are some leathers affected in this way than others?

post #954 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Does shoe leather expand and contract with differences in temperature?  I have a pair of shoes that pinch very slightly. When the weather is warm or when I have been wearing them for some time, they seem much more comfortable. When the weather is cold (and presumably making it impossible for my feet to worm up) they feel just as they did before I put them on that day. Comfortable in the warm and pinching in the cold. 

If this is the case, are some leathers affected in this way than others?

Munky,

Warm weather creates moisture in the form of perspiration within the shoes. This allows the leather to stretch. Warm weather also has a tendency to make your feet swell a little as capillaries expand and more blood flows and pools in the foot.

Cold weather hardens the oils/fats in the leather and prevents the fiber slippage that might allow the leather to stretch.

The fact that this is a recurring cycle...as your post seems to imply...only indicates that this leather has a high degree of memory--it remembers the size and shape it had when it came off the last. I would make a wild guess and ask "Are these shoes shell?"
post #955 of 1197

Thank you very much for this, DW. As always, it was very informative.  I had wondered about the 'memory' of the leather. How does it 'know' how to return to a particular size and shape? Why don't you end of up with 'flabby' shoes or ones that are much to small? What happens to shoes (in terms of returning to shape) that someone might keep for wearing in the rain? Does a rubber (as opposed to a leather) sole make a difference here?

 

Regrettably, these aren't shell but plain old corrected grain!

post #956 of 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Thank you very much for this, DW. As always, it was very informative.  I had wondered about the 'memory' of the leather. How does it 'know' how to return to a particular size and shape? Why don't you end of up with 'flabby' shoes or ones that are much to small? What happens to shoes (in terms of returning to shape) that someone might keep for wearing in the rain? Does a rubber (as opposed to a leather) sole make a difference here?

Regrettably, these aren't shell but plain old corrected grain!

Why is the sky blue? crackup[1].gif (I'm teasing)

Leather fibers will stretch and straighten out and then snap back to the same shape and length (more or less, to a point) because that's what it did when it was living tissue. You can stretch leather past its limits, however...at which point you're breaking those fibers and you're also damaging the leather permanently.

And yes, shoes do get flabby depending on the quality of the leather. And boots that have been thoroughly wet can indeed shrink back some...usually they will open back up with a little wear.

It's all kind of like twisting a steel guitar string---you twist twenty times and when you let go you lose ten...leaving only ten twists that are stable. Twist another twenty times and you lose another ten...but now you've got twenty twists "in the bank" so to speak.

Eventually, your shoes will ease up even in cold weather.

And in all likely hood it is the plastics/plasticizer(?) in the finish on the corrected grain leather that is the source of a great deal of the memory in your shoes.
post #957 of 1197

Thanks, again, DW; more useful information!

post #958 of 1197

I have a pair of calf AE that seems to do the same thing--when I put them on in the morning they're a little tight, but as my feet warm up they loosen and get more comfortable.  I store them in a closet that tends to stay cooler than the rest of my apartment.  Or could there be another reason?

post #959 of 1197
Leather, temperature, humidity and probably my diet all seem to affect my feet. I have shoes that will feel fine on my feet and some particular days pinch my toes.
post #960 of 1197

Thanks for that, pB. It seems to accord with my experience too. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties