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Leather Quality and Properties - Page 59

post #871 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

.When a company give a name like that to a leather that isn't really kudu or mule or whatever, the main reason is to create the false impression that it shares some or a lot the characteristics of the real thing...even if it's just the visual image of the brawny ild African antelope.

Isn't that a form of deception? Kind of along the same lines as Faux leather.

You mean like 'cordovan', the burgundy colour? rotflmao.gif
post #872 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I would love to get into shoemaking as a hobby with the permission and support of my boss.

This forum is fortunately enough to have had Shoefan making some incredible shoes for himself as an amateur.

I know Shoefan. I like and respect him. I've talked to him, worked with him on buying deals and exchanged leathers and patterns with him. He's a good shoemaker. Maybe it's just a measure of that respect but I would not call him an "amateur."

Whether you want to do it as a hobby or not...it takes a fairly large amount of commitment...not only in time and energy and persistence of vision but financially as well. Those who do it part time usually end up more than a little frustrated or quitting.

Just sayin'...

That said, check out the Crispin Colloquy. Maybe register...it's free...and start reading and asking questions. I can't think of a better place to start. The Guild also has a digital library where you can download several how-to books (Thornton and Golding) and even purchase videos of instructional demonstrations.
post #873 of 1274
I think is the part where I start looking on the web for shoes made from Corinthian leather. I will likely post a pathetically frustrated update next week.
post #874 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I know Shoefan. I like and respect him. I've talked to him, worked with him on buying deals and exchanged leathers and patterns with him. He's a good shoemaker. Maybe it's just a measure of that respect but I would not call him an "amateur."

Whether you want to do it as a hobby or not...it takes a fairly large amount of commitment...not only in time and energy and persistence of vision but financially as well. Those who do it part time usually end up more than a little frustrated or quitting.

Just sayin'...

That said, check out the Crispin Colloquy. Maybe register...it's free...and start reading and asking questions. I can't think of a better place to start. The Guild also has a digital library where you can download several how-to books (Thornton and Golding) and even purchase videos of instructional demonstrations.

 

Time commitment, yes.  I have visited CC before though not regularly. 

 

I have a pair of last (thought way oversized, 12EE when I am roughly 9.5E/10.5D US).  First I need to find a way to trim them and cut them in half so they can be functional...

post #875 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Well, you CAN get footwear made from real Kudu:

Boots (owned by yours truly) in (shrunken) Kudu leather.

I believe the Northampton leather merchant who sold the hide to me (about 2008), that it is actually Kudu hide and that it was dead-stock which had been tanned some 20 or 25 years earlier. To balance the markings from one shoe to the other as equal as possible, we committed In the cutting of the vamps an actual no-no. The spine of the animal runs down the centre of the vamp. (Usually you cut to the left and right of the spine, but not over the spine.)



At the same time, the (now defunct) Lodger Shoe company in London bought the same Kudu hides (different colour) from the same merchant and had them made-up as a small run of boots

http://www.selectism.com/2009/09/02/lodger-kudu-brogued-boot/
post #876 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


I have a pair of last (thought way oversized, 12EE when I am roughly 9.5E/10.5D US).  First I need to find a way to trim them and cut them in half so they can be functional...

Don't bother to mess around with this last, keep it to decorate the mantle piece.
Go to Spenle - select a last you like in approximately the right size and alter (if neccessary) to fit your foot

http://spenle.de/Home.9.html

Unlike Springline (who haven't got an on-line catalogue) you can select at Spenle from a great choice of stock designs in various sizes and fittings. They do not stock the actual lasts, but the digital measurements. Once ordered, the last gets turned within a couple of days. You can also ask with the order for digital manipulation of their existing design (for example: increase/decrease in toe spring or heel pitch).

Cost for a stock last is somewhere in the region of EUR 50.00.
post #877 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


Boots (owned by yours truly) in (shrunken) Kudu leather.

I believe the Northampton leather merchant who sold the hide to me (about 2008), that it is actually Kudu hide and that it was dead-stock which had been tanned some 20 or 25 years earlier. To balance the markings from one shoe to the other as equal as possible, we committed In the cutting of the vamps an actual no-no. The spine of the animal runs down the centre of the vamp. (Usually you cut to the left and right of the spine, but not over the spine.)



At the same time, the (now defunct) Lodger Shoe company in London bought the same Kudu hides (different colour) from the same merchant and had them made-up as a small run of boots

http://www.selectism.com/2009/09/02/lodger-kudu-brogued-boot/

 

Best-looking Kudu I have ever seen.

post #878 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Boots (owned by yours truly) in (shrunken) Kudu leather.

+1

Those are beautiful!
post #879 of 1274
Yesterday...just to gin up some speculative conversation and, at the same time, prompt some thoughtful deliberation...I posted my remarks above on the Crispin Colloquy--a discussion forum I run for my Trade guild.

My friend Al Saguto made the following comments (reproduced here in its entirety with his blessing).

FWIW:
DW,

I share your frustration with all that, but it's nothing peculiar to our time and culture.

Remember the heated Forum discussion years ago on "toe box", "toe puff", "toe stiffener", "toe case", "toe lining"? All perfectly legit terms for the same thing more or less, just different regional variants over the last 200 years. T'would be nice if language stood still, but it doesn't.

With our students it's our job to teach them, show them each term but beg that they just pick one, stick to it, and blame their choice on their teacher

What bugs me more is how marketing "catalogue lingo" has dumbed-down the general population to the point they can barely discuss footwear. My pet peeves are:

Many can no longer distinguish between heel and sole, because of unitized bottoms

Many conflate instep with arch

Most can't tell a mold from a form (last)--it's all a mold to them

We're losing proper English "boot leg" for the German "shaft"

Good old thread has become "twine", "string", etc., and sewing/stitching is now degenerated into "lacing", "thonging", "binding"--anything but sewing/stitching it seems

Insoles are now cushy things you buy and insert inside your shoes--not the structural first sole everything's built to

Shank-pieces devolved to just "shanks", and now to "arch supports"

Heel stiffeners and counters are now "rear foot stabilizers"

Fewer and fewer can distinguish between a boot and a shoe, or are too lazy to try, hence "tall riding shoes" for top boots

Leather no longer has the flesh and the grain--it has the "suede side" (apologies to the Swedes) and the "smooth side"

And just because L.L. Bean didn't want their backless footwear to be restricted to indoor wear, they renamed good old slippers (mules is French), "slides" in marketing. Now backless slippers are generically called "slides". WTF baldy[1].gif

Don't despair, it's much worse in other trades. Ever stand at the service counter at an auto repair place and listen to a customer trying to describe what they think is wrong with their vehicle? "It sounds to me like the metal dohickey that holds the rubber gizmo is lose and rubbing on the big round thingie." "Sure Mr. we'll get right on that." cool.gif
post #880 of 1274
I know this is a leather thread, but DW why is it that in a lot of bespoke shoes you see a split where the heel joins the sole? This transcription reminded me of this. I was under the impression that the sole extends all of the way through to the back of the shoe and the heel is attached over top of the sole. On bespoke is the whole heel its own piece? What are some of the reasons for this? Also, I noticed this is present on RTW G&G shoes, is this functional, or just a nod to its bespoke big brother?
post #881 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I know this is a leather thread, but DW why is it that in a lot of bespoke shoes you see a split where the heel joins the sole? This transcription reminded me of this. I was under the impression that the sole extends all of the way through to the back of the shoe and the heel is attached over top of the sole. On bespoke is the whole heel its own piece? What are some of the reasons for this? Also, I noticed this is present on RTW G&G shoes, is this functional, or just a nod to its bespoke big brother?

 

Are you referring to the heel notch they carve out on some models?

 

That is carved from the sole and is evidence of a greater level of hand-work.  That notch is carved from the sole itself, so the sole still extends the full length of the shoe.

post #882 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

.......why is it that in a lot of bespoke shoes you see a split where the heel joins the sole?

You shouldn't see more than a faint hairline, but what you might see is the join of welt and "rand":
Quote:
rand
noun
1.
(in shoemaking) a strip of leather set in a shoe at the heel before the lifts are attached.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rand

The welt (usually) goes from (heel) breast to breast; then the rand takes over going around the heel. The welt is stitched-in, the rand is nailed in (with either metal nails or wooden pegs). Over this goes the sole and over the sole go the various lifts of the heel.

That split is either above or below the sole (depending on whether you look at it from the shoemaker's or the wearer's perspective).

PS. There are different schools, the rand can go below or on top of the sole:
Quote:
jimmyshoe said..
.
Hi Shoefan, yes you are right about the 1/4 rubber, it is hard to finish. It does seem to stand proud of the leather after rasping and I have a little trick of shaving off the lip part with the knife before glassing. I will include that next week. After that, it is a question of sanding really well. It is never going to be smooth though.

You can put on a split lift (rand) before the sole or after, both on a square waist and bevelled waist. I prefer to put it on after because I find the rand can be narrower that way and is easier to put on. But both ways are equally valid.
Hope that helps.

Best, jimmyshoe

http://carreducker.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/finishing-tips-and-tricks.html
post #883 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I know this is a leather thread, but DW why is it that in a lot of bespoke shoes you see a split where the heel joins the sole? This transcription reminded me of this. I was under the impression that the sole extends all of the way through to the back of the shoe and the heel is attached over top of the sole. On bespoke is the whole heel its own piece? What are some of the reasons for this? Also, I noticed this is present on RTW G&G shoes, is this functional, or just a nod to its bespoke big brother?

A lot of the old books, esp. British, recommend that the outsole only extend as far as just past the breast of the heel. Effectively creating a 3/4 outsole. This means that there is a separate piece for the heel area which could have been cut as part of the outsole but the makers of that time apparently considered the 3/4 sole a better solution. I can't tell you why. Often times there was a half moon gap between the outsole and the heel piece and they were just butted up against each other. Which, it seems to me would invite leakage, if not guarantee it. I run my outsoles all the way back unless the shoe is so big that I cannot cut/find an outsole long enough in which case I splice the two pieces together.

I have some illustrations from Golding or Thornton showing this. I'll see if I can run them down later (late for work). Or perhaps Bengal Stripe can jump in and provide them.
post #884 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


Boots (owned by yours truly) in (shrunken) Kudu leather.

I believe the Northampton leather merchant who sold the hide to me (about 2008), that it is actually Kudu hide and that it was dead-stock which had been tanned some 20 or 25 years earlier. To balance the markings from one shoe to the other as equal as possible, we committed In the cutting of the vamps an actual no-no. The spine of the animal runs down the centre of the vamp. (Usually you cut to the left and right of the spine, but not over the spine.)



At the same time, the (now defunct) Lodger Shoe company in London bought the same Kudu hides (different colour) from the same merchant and had them made-up as a small run of boots

http://www.selectism.com/2009/09/02/lodger-kudu-brogued-boot/

those look amazing!

post #885 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by dibadiba View Post

You mean like 'cordovan', the burgundy colour? rotflmao.gif

BTW, I'm not a shoe historian although I do know one...and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.lol8[1].gif

But from everything I know, the word "cordovan...as it applies to colour comes from 12th century southern Spain --Cordoba--where the tanners were famous for a reddish coloured goat known as corduan.

This is an excerpt from a larger treatise that appears on the HCC homepage, written by my particular friend Al Saguto who is one of the worlds most respected authorities on shoe history.
Quote:
Moorish Cordoba was celebrated in the early Middle Ages for silversmithing and the production of cordouan leather, called "cordwain" in England. Originally made from the skin of the Musoli goat, then found in Corsica, Sardinia, and elsewhere, this leather was tawed with alum after a method supposedly known only to the Moors. Crusaders brought home much plunder and loot, including the finest leather the English shoemakers had seen. Gradually cordouan, or cordovan leather became the material most in demand for the finest footwear in all of Europe.

AFAIK, and Wikipedia notwithstanding, the word cordovan did not refer to horse shell as it sometimes is used to day...and I suspect that if you talked to Nick or Skip at Horween they would probably prefer the term "shell" to "cordovan."
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