or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Leather Quality and Properties - Page 38

post #556 of 1274

I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about anymore. What is the scientific conclusion I should draw from this discussion?

post #557 of 1274

What about fluoropolymers for waterproofing. Some substantial hiking and mountaineering boots recommend only these sprays for maintaining the waterproof properties of their products. Since these are for heavy duty use, this would appear to be based on function, not cosmetics.

post #558 of 1274
Anybody have any experience with Saphir Creme Universelle, or Saphir Napa conditioner? I actually have some of the Universelle and it's ok, I guess. It says it has beeswax and jojoba. It feels much thinner than Renovateur. Napa seems like an interesting product, they say it is for delicate leathers and has mink oil and jojoba and no solvents.
post #559 of 1274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about anymore. What is the scientific conclusion I should draw from this discussion?

Please avoid fats/oils with high iodine value and poorly refined fats/oils to prevent oxidation and greasy/sticky products not to impair air permeability and collect dust...like this...

http://books.google.com/books?id=SGOmAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

What about fluoropolymers for waterproofing. Some substantial hiking and mountaineering boots recommend only these sprays for maintaining the waterproof properties of their products. Since these are for heavy duty use, this would appear to be based on function, not cosmetics.

Fluoropolymers are more powerful than silicones, but they are not as durable as silicones because those on leather are taken away by friction. Please make sure not to inhale them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/29consumer.html

The upper photo is better water-repellent.
http://www.water-dancer-products.com/dewelry_en.html
angle_dewelry.jpg
angle_normal.jpg
Edited by VegTan - 9/13/13 at 5:27pm
post #560 of 1274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Anybody have any experience with Saphir Creme Universelle, or Saphir Napa conditioner? I actually have some of the Universelle and it's ok, I guess. It says it has beeswax and jojoba. It feels much thinner than Renovateur. Napa seems like an interesting product, they say it is for delicate leathers and has mink oil and jojoba and no solvents.

I have used a cheaper delicate cream once.
http://www.riderbootshop.com/saphir-creme-delicate-50ml/

Japanese agency says it contains jojoba oil, no solvents, and no mink oil, so it would be cheaper than the square jar. It seemed to contain little wax, smelled like something sweet. I feel Lexol conditioner is enough, but it would be worth trying. Here is a demonstration.
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/primeavenue/879030/
ae385efc788d5260798e73947deb78bed46c1e2b.jpg
9fd8e9f53947ed4c6d0f60aa36de2e498139d9a8.jpg
post #561 of 1274

DWF--or whoever--what is the origin and practicality of the Norwegian welt? Did it ever actually repel water at a greater rate than a traditional hand welt? 

 

Also, re: leather properties, I don't know if anyone watched the Mayweather - Alvarez fight, but Mayweather was sporting some pretty sick patent python leather trunks. Get a lot of orders for boots in that skin, DWF??

post #562 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

DWF--or whoever--what is the origin and practicality of the Norwegian welt? Did it ever actually repel water at a greater rate than a traditional hand welt? 

Also, re: leather properties, I don't know if anyone watched the Mayweather - Alvarez fight, but Mayweather was sporting some pretty sick patent python leather trunks. Get a lot of orders for boots in that skin, DWF??
Good question. I would add to this curiosity about the efficacy of a "fudge welt," which is, I think, an ordinary welt with an additional turned out welt above it.
post #563 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post


Good question. I would add to this curiosity about the efficacy of a "fudge welt," which is, I think, an ordinary welt with an additional turned out welt above it.

 

I've never been much of a "fudge welt" guy, always more of a candied apple welt type.

post #564 of 1274

I have mostly been an Weltanschauung person.

post #565 of 1274

Given that corrected grain leather has a coating on it, does it absorb any cleaners or creams - coloured or otherwise? If not, presumably the shoe cleaning lists, scattered throughout the shoe thread, don't apply to such leather. However, I imagine that most people have at least some shoes made of such leather and some regularly clean them. Kiwi and Meltonian continue to thrive and I don't imagine that those products are aimed at the sort of people who visit this and the shoe site. They are aimed, I would think mostly, at people who wear corrected leather shoes. Are people with corrected grain shoes wasting their time in cleaning them?

 

We don't have many shoe shine people in this country but do they refuse to polish corrected grain shoes? I wouldn't think so!

post #566 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

DWF--or whoever--what is the origin and practicality of the Norwegian welt? Did it ever actually repel water at a greater rate than a traditional hand welt? 

Also, re: leather properties, I don't know if anyone watched the Mayweather - Alvarez fight, but Mayweather was sporting some pretty sick patent python leather trunks. Get a lot of orders for boots in that skin, DWF??

I don't do Norwegian welts very often...I'm not an expert. But at one time Norwegian welt was synonymous with a turned construction--where after the vamp is lasted and inseamed, the vamp leather in the forepart is laid flat on the undersurface of the welt, rather than being trimmed flush to the welt. This indeed did afford a measure of water resistance that cannot be duplicated by any techniques short of a hot melt molded sole.

Python? I get some orders. i don't like piecing the vamp however and large pythons...large enough to cut two matching vamp entire...are not all that easy to come by. The leather is generally too thin to use without a backing and the scale petals (what's left after the scale has been removed) can be problematic. They used to glue all those petals down. Don't do that much anymore.
post #567 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Given that corrected grain leather has a coating on it, does it absorb any cleaners or creams - coloured or otherwise? If not, presumably the shoe cleaning lists, scattered throughout the shoe thread, don't apply to such leather. However, I imagine that most people have at least some shoes made of such leather and some regularly clean them. Kiwi and Meltonian continue to thrive and I don't imagine that those products are aimed at the sort of people who visit this and the shoe site. They are aimed, I would think mostly, at people who wear corrected leather shoes. Are people with corrected grain shoes wasting their time in cleaning them?

We don't have many shoe shine people in this country but do they refuse to polish corrected grain shoes? I wouldn't think so!

Most fully opaque leathers have some form of top coat. In a technical sense, I suppose one could argue that all leather except aniline dyed leather is "corrected grain". But the point is that the technology of finishing leather has probably advance to the point where some portion of conditioners does get through.

It is never a mistake or a waste of time to clean your shoes even if it is corrected grain. If nothing else cleaning off the micro fines that accumulate in the creases will retard cracking.

Meltonian in particular was never aimed at lower priced shoes. It is a decent product (British I believe) that has been refocused to the lowest common denominator in order to increase sales and profitability...like so many old and venerable firms in the shoe Trade. The worst part about it...something that is relatively recent...is that the colours are often inconsistent and they tend to fade or change as time goes by. I still use Meltonian. I still like and think it is at least adequate, and non-damaging...for the most part. We don't get Saphir or Colonnil or any of the hoity-toity, high price shoe creams here in the States...at least not readily. It's Meltonian and Kiwi and Kelly and Lincoln, for the most part.
post #568 of 1274

Thank you, DWFII for your detailed and - as always - helpful reply. It was enlightening. 

 

In my message, I had written a line about 'do Saphir products really make a lot more of a difference to shoes than, say, Meltonian. - but I deleted it. From what you write, I suspect that one answer to that question might be 'not a lot of difference'. Is the difference almost just a marketing ploy?  Just as people may buy 'label' clothes, imagining that they are getting something better and feeling somehow superior to those who buy ordinary clothes? 

post #569 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Most fully opaque leathers have some form of top coat. In a technical sense, I suppose one could argue that all leather except aniline dyed leather is "corrected grain". But the point is that the technology of finishing leather has probably advance to the point where some portion of conditioners does get through.

It is never a mistake or a waste of time to clean your shoes even if it is corrected grain. If nothing else cleaning off the micro fines that accumulate in the creases will retard cracking.

Meltonian in particular was never aimed at lower priced shoes. It is a decent product (British I believe) that has been refocused to the lowest common denominator in order to increase sales and profitability...like so many old and venerable firms in the shoe Trade. The worst part about it...something that is relatively recent...is that the colours are often inconsistent and they tend to fade or change as time goes by. I still use Meltonian. I still like and think it is at least adequate, and non-damaging...for the most part. We don't get Saphir or Colonnil or any of the hoity-toity, high price shoe creams here in the States...at least not readily. It's Meltonian and Kiwi and Kelly and Lincoln, for the most part.

 

I remember reading some time ago (probably a year or so) that Allen Edmonds shoe care products are re-branded Colonnil.  I don't remember the source, but I'll post it if I find it.  I also don't know if it was or is still true.  These things can change rather suddenly sometimes.  

post #570 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

 

I remember reading some time ago (probably a year or so) that Allen Edmonds shoe care products are re-branded Colonnil.  I don't remember the source, but I'll post it if I find it.  I also don't know if it was or is still true.  These things can change rather suddenly sometimes.  

 

This may be where I remember it from: 

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?64064-Allen-Edmonds-Premium-Shoe-Polish

 

Just an Ask Andy thread, and alas, it is now 6 years old.  For what it's worth, however, it seems that Ron Rider was the one who initially reported that Allen Edmonds products are re-branded Colonnil.  

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties